Young Suicidal People - Capacity and Recovery
I don´t care about age, the age of 18 is a social construct that has been indoctrinated into us like when you are 18 you are magically and adult
Sorry to rehash this issue, it's not just a social construct but a scientific fact. The "cutoff age" is indeed somewhat arbitrary but it's a pretty good average. I find the notion that 'the brain is under-developed' offensive and obnoxious. But simple practical evidence gathered about human behaviour shows young people act and think differently. In most cases an 18yo drinking all night is mostly partying ; a 40yo doing that is destructive alcoholism. That is not a social construct , but a real life tragedy..
I understand some people, particularly young members here, are fundamentally suicidal and that age threshold is ridiculous to them. But the vast majority of young people who are suicidal recover and carry on. If it was 50/50 (i.e. half recover and half remain suicidal) I'd reconsider that age thing. But since it's more of a 90/10 issue I can't.
Blackstone's ratio speaks to the ethical balance and the importance of help-vs-harm. It doesn't address the "young and suicidal" dilemma at all -- but it does provide a good prism on how to view that.
So despite being suicidal and pessimistic about this world/humanity, I recognize that young people committing suicide is overall avoidable. My personal perspective is that I shouldn't have died at the age of 18, as I really needed to make sure and try. That could be a flimsy hindsight rationalization. But I think it holds when I see my lows and highs throughout the decades. Rarely should people be allowed to deprive themselves of exploring that path so quickly. (I cannot answer to the issue of society preventing a 'personal freedom' from young people as 'freedom' is an explosive ideal).
It would be really interesting to open the entire subject for a mature through discussion and bring more information, but I don't know if that's possible.
The rights of euthanasia to minors are extremely taboo, controversial, and rare -- and my heart instinctively breaks just mentioning it. It's so painful. I think that even discussing 18yo ending their life, which is still "teenage suicide", should be done with utter prudence. And I don't think all members can do that right now. Tread carefully, young people's suicide should not be mentioned offhand
Question #1
What if someone misinterpreted your words, and ctb cause of them?
- The highlighted words narrow the subject. This is not about information regarding methods -- but personal/emotional posts which may somehow 'push' someone. Otherwise, regarding methods, Humphry & members here addressed that ("reading on the internet", "watching a movie").
- So this could be a personal harmful post addressed to a member, or a general post where a person is simply sharing their thoughts (thus providing somehow indirect "encouragement" to guest readers).
- Either way I would be personally devastated, and I'm therefore careful and cautious with what I write and how I phrase it (though I falter).
- You would need a case-by-case judgment on this, and it's brilliant that you inadvertently presented the core of the problem: "misinterpreted" vs "cause". That is the question. Did you cause, or did the other person misinterpreted. In extremely rare cases that is the ultimate dilemma of mods here... Is a post or a behaviour somehow harmful or encouraging. Since it's not allowed and often handled, that hypothetical situation is actually avoided.
- In certain jurisdictions even providing an emotional relief, even a simple hug with no words, to a person ctbing, can be considered as "providing support". Most authorities will not fully pursue this but they will investigate if there was any foul play (rightly so; sorry). The stance of the law on this, which varies, is a whole new Pandora box in itself -- it gives some interesting perspectives.
- If I recall correctly, violent video games do not encourage violence; yet over-the-top anxiety-ridden television broadcast somewhat do. Sites like this provide better relief and support than traditional therapy. That all suggests that an emotional involvement and a place to really "explore" is beneficial, compared to passively watching and absorbing content, or following hollow guidance. So if you're engaging, reflective, fair -- that is better.
- The fine line:
- Turning ctb into something which may appear light in nature. We laugh about death, and that could be a problem.
- Idealizing death. That had been discussed here as well, and it's a problem. Some of us can honestly find solace and comfort in death, which may be seen as indeed better than reality. Alas, that is the definition of idealization!
- So, in addition to being super sensitive in all aspects suggested above, if you as a person (1) avoid encouragement, and (2) provide support, it is not your responsibility; because you have taken the responsibility beforehand and done your best to cause no harm.
Question #2
What if someone under 18 years old ctb because of this site?
- That would be a total disaster, on a personal level, for the person writing a harmful post, and for the site/community, not just in practical terms or direct consequences.
- Even if, as others mentioned, there is no direct causation, that is still a heavy burden to even remotely float over one's conscious.
- Members here seek "easy ctb" , and I say it's a good thing methods are complicated. Others mention it's never about the method but the determination, and that may be true as well. But anyway that serves us well, not just to cleanse ourselves, but as a general rule: safe to know that ctb is an excruciating process that requires many preparations and hurdles. Ironically, what most of us complain about is a good thing.
- If that is the background/context and members inject compassionate reservations to their words, which is often the case, there should be no ethical problems. An underage ctb does not change the notions of the responsibilities invoked in question #1 (above) -- it just makes it stronger and more critical. (Other issues regarding minors were briefly suggested before)
Question #3
If you had information for a new suicide method or something that can help for peaceful or faster suicide would you share it?
Interesting answer: Yes, only if it were 50% better
If it was some hassle-free, quick, peaceful method -- no I wouldn't share it. If it was "better" to a limited extent but still requiring preparations and thoughtfulness -- I would. I would never publicly write about any "quick & easy self-harm" (that would be my cut off). --- See point (3) of Question #2 .
Epilogue -- Final Words
I didn't really put much effort to this post here, in terms of phrasing and laying out an idea or a stance in an orderly fashion, so I do apologize and please be mindful of that. I was just throwing ideas (brainstorming). Don't take it in a strict manner, I was really just reflecting.. Perhaps things could be summed up like this:
If personal measures are taken to prevent causation it should be fine, though it would always be awful.
And a basic safeguard could be:
Always think that a severely distressed 16yo (with the means and intent) is reading your posts.
I'm not trying to create general rules for others, but share how I think of my personal "rules". I myself am not clear nor sure of that. This is me talking to myself. "You should do X" is addressed at me -- not telling others what to do. I'm not going to change every word and pronoun.. That's just the way I build an idea for my own personal benefit/understanding. I try to create a general rule and put it to the test. It's a
Kantian/
Rowlsian thought process. I share that process, it is intimate, I don't expect anyone to agree or follow.
