Trying to sort through the tangle of thoughts in my head

[Darknessallaround]

Not really sure if this is the right place to post this so please move it it doesn't belong here.

I often read on forums, here and elsewhere, about the swift and immediate response by MH professionals to someone's disclosure of suicidal thoughts if they feel the person is at risk of acting on said thoughts.

I don't know if it's because we don't have the same setup here, ie MH places are NHS rather than private and therefore don't have to be paid for by the client/insurance; or whether it's because we just don't have the infrastructure in place. But in the UK you have to be suicidal and at serious risk at that moment for any definitive action to be taken. I don't know whether that's a benefit or a drawback really...

On the one hand there isn't likely to be an OTT reaction if a person just discloses thoughts, but not a plan or action. On the other, it means a person is less likely to receive any help should they actually want intervention.

I've been living with suicidal thoughts for around 18 years and had one ill-thought out attempt 6 years ago. Since then I've done a lot more research and feel confident (as much as one can) that I would do a better job of it next time around. I've been testing the water with the therapist I speak to about what I can and cannot say without triggering that OTT response. It appears that I would have to declare I was imminently about to end my life for her to alert either my GP or mental health team. Part of me feels comforted by this response because I don't want things taken out of my hands and other parties brought in where I don't have any control over what happens next. I suppose I just wanted someone irl that I could talk to and know they weren't going to freak out. But I know she is still conscious of the fact that I could talk to her about it and then at some point go through with it, and if she hadn't said anything, she might be in trouble for not having disclosed to the relevant authorities - I don't want to put her in a difficult position, but she's the only person I've been able to open up to about this.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

Will an agreed upon "hypothetical" discussion between the two of you provide a safetly layer ?
Is your therapist cool like that ?

 

[signifying nothing]

It might make it easier if you look at talking to her about self-determination more generally, not just in relation to suicide? Your ability to make decisions for yourself, your feeling of agency and control (or lack of) over your life, etc.

 

[Darknessallaround]

@re_pete_x We did have a kind of hypothetical discussion around confidentially and under what conditions she might have to break it. But I get the sense that she is still worried.

@docile76 Good point about talking about self determination generally. When I read that, it occurred to me that maybe the lack of it contributes to the suicidal feelings, because it's the one area of my life I have any control over.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

Does your therapist understand you are persuing recovery ?
I go by that because you posted in recovery.
Alot of "ugly" talk has to happen on that road, your therapist should know that.
If you are persuing recovery make that known to your therapist.
You will literally not meet the requirements for involuntary commital right?
If yes then you two can talk, freely. like it isn't but, should be.

edit: this is NOT advice
it's a debugging effort.

 

[Darknessallaround]

I posted in recovery because I wasn't sure if it belonged in the suicide discussion section.
I would say I'm sitting on the fence with regards to going through with it or not at the moment. There's a war going on inside my head. A battle between wanting to give up vs doing what's right (for others). I don't know which side will win.
I don't have much hope that things will get better, but I suppose there must be a tiny sliver or I wouldn't still be here.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

i hear you.

to be clear, i'm pro choice
and commited

honestly, recovery sounds like a good fit for that struggle.
if anything just for the room to breathe.
i wish i had something more helpful to say.
i think you owe it to yourself to hang back if it's your leaning.
from someone who doesn't see that light anymore
to someone who does
take some time to kick around and talk to others in recovery
ask questions till you know your way and go from there.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

My concern is that suicidal ideation would be added to your record, unless you've disclosed it to a healthcare provider before and it's already there. If it's not, then in the future you might not be taken seriously for certain health complaints, or someone may use it to give you a stigmatizing BS diagnosis.

 

[k75]

But in the UK you have to be suicidal and at serious risk at that moment for any definitive action to be taken.

That's actually how it's supposed to be in the US as well. I was in a partial hospitalization program, and the director told me the as far as the law goes, the only time they will section you is if they believe you are an imminent danger to yourself or others. It can boil down to a judgement call, but generally having suicidal thoughts is ok, as long as there's no plan. They just need to know you aren't going to do something the second you leave. She also said they don't like to section people and try to work to avoid it if possible. If you're in crisis, they won't let you go.

I've been able to freely talk about this with every therapist I've seen. But I've never admitted to having a plan or method. For me, it's enough that they know what I need help with. There's no point if they don't know the problem. But I've had extremely bad days where I said I was not feeling safe and had strong urges or was really struggling, and we talked about how to ensure I would be. They like safety plans, which I think are dumb. But it satisfies the safe to go home requirements.

Anyway, in my experience, you can be very open as long as you use basic common sense.

My concern is that suicidal ideation would be added to your record, unless you've disclosed it to a healthcare provider before and it's already there. If it's not, then in the future you might not be taken seriously for certain health complaints, or someone may use it to give you a stigmatizing BS diagnosis.

I've never had anything like that happen. In fact, I struggle with convincing them to take me seriously, to make them realize this is a serious issue for me that I need help working through. Sometimes, I feel like they really don't listen and I have to keep reminding them. It's frustrating.

My psychiatrist is better about that. He tailors my meds to try and make the ideation more manageable.

 

[Darknessallaround]

I have suicidal thoughts. I have a plan. I have a method. I don't (yet) have the means.

MH team is 'concerned', but there words don't match their actions. My CPN has reduced phone calls down to once a month. If I'm not able to engage with therapy I'll likely be discharged.

I can't leave the house without my OH knowing. It's difficult to get deliveries to the house without OH seeing it.

I haven't been able to attend any appointments, haven't seen or spoken to anyone f2f for 9 months. This is contributing to my suicidal ideation, but OH thinks they're keeping me safe. I try to explain how bad it's making me feel. I get told if I leave the house (to go to an appointment), don't come back. I'm losing the will to live. If I try and fail, things will be ten times worse than they are now. OH will blame me, turn it around and make it about them. How I'm selfish, how I've destroyed their life.
What exactly am I staying alive for...?