Trigger warning: p@@ treating depression/bipolar

[LittleJem]

This totally grossed me out but FMT has helped mental illness. There is one woman on YouTube who said it helped her Bipolar/cured it.

you can tell how desperate I am now!!

but transplanting p o o has made fat nice thin and vice versa, so it definitely does something!

 

[Brick In The Wall]

So you're a bit vague in what this is and my mind ran a bit wild with it. Upon googling it I saw that it's a legitimate procedure.

In some ways it doesn't shock me as certain types of gut/intestinal bacteria are very important. I can't say I'd ever have this done personally. But if you feel like it's helping you then I say more power to you!

Here's the description of the procedure from a highly prestigious medical center.

Gastroenterology and Hepatology

www.hopkinsmedicine.org

 

[LittleJem]

I haven't tried it. The video is literally a woman whose Bipolar was helped with it. The video has some super-gross moments!!

It is used as a treatment for certain gut conditions that can be fatal, but it can also work with other stuff.

This is a charming treatment story - as it involves a grandson donating to grandmother!! And it cured her depression: https://www.cambridge.org/core/serv...an_elderly_patient_with_mental_depression.pdf

Could fecal transplants help treat mental illness?

Gut feelings are more than just a figure of speech — in recent years, we’ve discovered that there really is a connection between our minds and our stomachs. It’s called the gut-brain axis, and new research shows it can have a major effect on mental health.

whyy.org

 

[signifying nothing]

Interesting thank you. Just shows how little we really know about how it all works. And to think every day we just flush away this useful stuff as waste when really its an intimate and unique creation of our bodies.

 

[LittleJem]

So this is the conclusion from the BMC psychiatry:

There appears to be strong evidence for the treatment and transmission of psychiatric illnesses through FMT. Further research with larger sample sizes and stronger scientific design is warranted in order to fully determine the efficacy and safety of this potential treatment. Registered on PROSPERO, IRD: CRD42019126795.
This is super-interesting: https://bmcpsychiatry.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12888-020-02654-5
Here is an extract:

In past studies, individuals with psychiatric illness have also been shown to have a dissimilar microbiota composition compared to healthy individuals, due to decreased diversity and abundance of the healthy gut microbes [9]. Studies also show that lack of exposure to commensal bacteria, such as in germ-free mice, has significant effects on stress responsiveness in adulthood; it has also been shown that early colonization of the gut with a conventional microbiota, even a single species, can partially reverse these effects [10]. Some investigations have shown neurochemical changes as a result of gut microbiome dysfunction, such as altered levels of brain-derived neurotropic factor (BDNF), reduced serotonin receptor expression, reduced synaptic plasticity gene expression, and increased striatal monoamine turnover [10,11,12].

 

[Deleted member 23374]

Are you going to do this ? if so will you update ?

 

[LittleJem]

Are you going to do this ? if so will you update ?

I have no idea - it would involve my partner and a strictly for this use only blender. I am really grossed out by it - but if it helped it would be life-saving. There is also a UK clinic - but very pricey and they probably do it for digestive issues only. Don't know if you can self refer or not.

I will report back if I am not dying of shame!

The stuff about mice is so interesting.
There is also some research that it can help with autism out there - I found it earlier. I think I have some autistic traits.

 

[Deleted member 23374]

Thanks, i will watch this thread.

 

[LittleJem]

This is a study taking place: https://www.womensresearch.ca/resea...g-bipolar-disorder-with-fecal-transplantation

Bacteriotherapy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is another good link: https://www.racp.edu.au/news-and-ev...-a-gut-feeling-for-faecal-transplant-patients

Here are the first two paras:


With faecal transplants* becoming increasingly popular for the treatment of multiple conditions including chronic fatigue, irritable bowel syndrome, Parkinson's and autism, an RACP Fellow says there is now also anecdotal evidence of recipients mimicking the mood and other characteristics of their donor.

Changes to body shape (either weight gain or loss) and depression are examples that Austin Health's Associate Professor Patrick Charles will share as part of his presentation at the Royal Australasians College of Physicians (RACP) annual Congress event in Melbourne today. Associate Professor Charles said although the DNA of humans usually only varies between 0.1 per cent – 0.5 per cent (i.e. 99.5 – 99.9 per cent of the human DNA is identical when comparing any two humans), the mixture of microbiome varies as much as 80 per cent.
"
It is only now that we are beginning to recognise and understand the influence of microbiome on both our mind and body," explained Associate Professor Charles. "Anecdotally, I have heard stories about patients experiencing fluctuations in their mood after receiving a faecal transplant. There have even been reports that patients with no prior history of depression have become depressed after receiving a transplant from someone with depression.

"There have also been cases where dramatic body changes have occurred – both rapid weight gain and weight loss, each time aligned to the donor. "As the health sector continues to experiment with faecal transplants for various conditions, careful selection and screening of the donor has to remain a focus."

Fecal matter transplants: The cure of the future

Uncovering the benefits of fecal matter transplants.

www.cnet.com

The rise of 'psychobiotics'? 'Poop pills' and probiotics could be game changers for mental illness

No area of psychiatry is as hot, or controversial today as the idea of manipulating the gut to alter the mind

nationalpost.com

 

[Deleted member 23374]

It would be interesting, if they figure out the communication question,

"Just how gut bacteria communicate with the brain, and the brain with the gut, isn't entirely clear, though Taylor suspects the immune part is paramount."

They might figure out a maybe figure out some kind of gene therapy thing, maybe less invasive.

 

[painoflife]

Wow this is something I would have never known about if I didn't see this post, very interesting.
It seems rather a strange thing to have considered as a treatment option, like how did they discover that this helped?
Bit like "why did we start eating chickens eggs?" kind of puzzling thing for me, who was the mastermind behind it and why.

 

[LittleJem]

Gross, but it was used effectively in Chinese medicine for food poisoning.

Probably here it was first used for people with gut illness, then they discovered it changes: mice, people...like one article seems to say you can give a mouse schizophrenia with a FMT.

 

[Sensei]

If it can alleviate your suffering and save you life, it's worth trying. I have medication which works, but otherwise I wouldn't have hesitated to give it a try.

 

[sufferingalways]

It would be interesting, if they figure out the communication question,

"Just how gut bacteria communicate with the brain, and the brain with the gut, isn't entirely clear, though Taylor suspects the immune part is paramount."

They might figure out a maybe figure out some kind of gene therapy thing, maybe less invasive.

Hi I remember someone else saying how the gut and mind are linked, it was @Underscore I believe.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

There is certainly increased evidence to suggest that the gut and brain are intimately linked. Sounds obvious to me. I think a substantial proportion of the body's seretonin is produced in the gut.
It makes sense that a healthy gut biome might help mental illness too.
It may be mediated by biochemical feedback that takes place between the gut and the nervous system and tied in to homeostasis governed by the endocrine system.
It's all linked.

Yes, I've heard of FMT. At the moment I'm experimenting with food/prebiotic/probiotic/medication balancing. FMT is a more extreme, quick fix way to re-populate an eviscerated gut biome. The theory appears sound and there does appear to be anecdotal evidence supporting it's application.
Good luck finding someone that will do it though!

Edit: I'd add this - if it did work, it would still be necessary to eat healthily, get lots of prebiotics and maintain a healthy gut flora. If one continued to eat junk, take antibiotics and have scans, there goes the neighbourhood (again).

 

[Ghost2211]

I remember hearing about a dude that has "perfect poop" and does regular donations for this. I hadn't heard about it for mental illness, but certainly has been used for a while in the medical field.

 

[Symbiote]

I'm going to walk up to the most successful and happiest person and ask him, "Sir, could you please donate your poop so I can shove it up my ass?"

 

[Deleted member 1465]

I'm going to walk up to the most successful and happiest person and ask him, "Sir, could you please donate your poop so I can shove it up my ass?"

Best chat up line ever. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Symbiote]

2Girls1Cup was about two women who wanted to cure their depression.

 

[LittleJem]

When I looked at the research, you need to do it over a sustained amount of time (i.e. you need a regular donor!!!). E.g. for autism they did maybe 8 weeks of treatment. It would be a big ask to do it at home from a friend or partner. I couldn't handle it myself I don't think.

I think my favourite anecdote I read was about the woman whose husband was a naval officer who lived in a boat (or sub) with I can't remember how many men - so apparently he wasn't able to be grossed out by anything, so was happy to be her donor!!
In all seriousness, the only way to do this probably (without a very understanding happy and healthy partner/friend/family member) must be to find someone with a p** fetish who is happy and healthy.

 

[Disappointered]

Apparently if you eat monkey shit you can greatly improve your immune system as well.

All this is grossing me out and reminds me of weird parasites that take over parts of the mind and control behaviour...disgusting....

 

[LittleJem]

Apparently if you eat monkey shit you can greatly improve your immune system as well.

All this is grossing me out and reminds me of weird parasites that take over parts of the mind and control behaviour...disgusting....

It is gross - but for some people it saved their lives already!

 

[sufferingalways]

There is certainly increased evidence to suggest that the gut and brain are intimately linked. Sounds obvious to me. I think a substantial proportion of the body's seretonin is produced in the gut.
It makes sense that a healthy gut biome might help mental illness too.
It may be mediated by biochemical feedback that takes place between the gut and the nervous system and tied in to homeostasis governed by the endocrine system.
It's all linked.

Yes, I've heard of FMT. At the moment I'm experimenting with food/prebiotic/probiotic/medication balancing. FMT is a more extreme, quick fix way to re-populate an eviscerated gut biome. The theory appears sound and there does appear to be anecdotal evidence supporting it's application.
Good luck finding someone that will do it though!

Edit: I'd add this - if it did work, it would still be necessary to eat healthily, get lots of prebiotics and maintain a healthy gut flora. If one continued to eat junk, take antibiotics and have scans, there goes the neighbourhood (again).

Hi I missed your point about the neighbourhood. Forgive my sleepy head.

 

[Deleted member 1465]

Hi I missed your point about the neighbourhood. Forgive my sleepy head.

I mean that if a person continued to have a lifestyle of unhealthy food etc. That a FMT might be little use in the long term.

 

[Chupacabra 44]

I've researched fairly extensively into this for myself. One has to be really careful to go down this route. Best to read every single anecdotal story and study you can find, because there has been some recipients who experienced adverse consequences.

The last story I read was a donor who inadvertently killed a few recipients, because unbeknownst to him, he had ecoli in his intestines. Apparently, somehow the donor was immune to the ecoli, but the recipients ended up dying. (Think I read something about the FDA taking action or proposing action about fmt).

Perhaps we can start a thread on CTB by FMT?

I've read plenty of studies with laboratory experiments on fmt. In rat studies personalities are altered, so the recipient starts behaving more like the donor.

I know in some human cases that recipients who had been thin their entire lives became obese after the transplant, as it turned out the donor had obesity.

I concluded for myself that there is no one I know that I admire enough to seek donation and to risk my body and mind (potentially) to be altered to becoming more like them. Plus, I conuded that things could always get worse. What if I were to acquire some/all of the negative health features from the donor? My plate is already full.