Tired of trying to improve myself socially

[mango-meridian]

For about a decade I've been putting forth a lot of effort to improve myself socially, and it's mostly felt like a waste of time.

I'm not talking about trying to change my core personality. I'm talking about things like not offending people, not being insensitive, not being too blunt, not being creepy, not being too "forward", not being too "passive", not being too cringe, not being too weird, not making people feel inadequate, etc.

I don't think it's unhealthy to want to change these patterns and behaviors. (Maybe my mind is warping things and everyone is actually cool with the way I act all of the time, but I doubt it.) Some of these behaviors seem objectively harmful, or at least uncomfortable, to other people. And the repercussions don't feel good for me either. Finding a solution should be a win for everyone.

And yet, all of my attempts to change or improve on these things haven't yielded results. I've improved a little, but not much.



After nearly every social interaction/event, even ones that seem like they went mostly fine, I go into a prolonged think about what I did and said and how other people responded. Then comes the onslaught of self-criticism.

I replay the most worrisome moments a crazy number of times, sometimes as many as 50. I can't even focus on anything because the moments keep popping up in my head again and again. Even if I try to resolve them in my mind and explain to myself what the lessons learned were and why I should stop worrying about it, they keep coming back anyway.

You'd think that after years and years of carefully and obsessively analyzing my interactions to try to "do better", that I would start to do better, but that hasn't really been the case aside from minor improvements here and there.



I think a lot of my behaviors probably have to do with my autism, OCD, anxiety and other mental health problems.

Still, though, I like to try to be optimistic and imagine that there is a way to improve myself in spite of these conditions. I want to take responsibility for everything that I can, especially if some of the things I do and say make others feel hurt, uncomfortable, etc.

I've talked about these things with all of my therapists and have never received a single useful insight or piece of advice. Their suggestions just don't go deep enough. Example: "Maybe you just need to be more vulnerable." I talked about therapy in a recent post here. Long story short, I don't think it's going to be an answer for me.

So I've been trying other things.

Self help books have been crap and have actually made things worse in many cases.



I feel like at this point I really only have two options:

1) Keep trying. I do think that lately I have gotten a lot better at having awareness of my inner emotions and my reasons for acting in certain ways. I feel like maybe if I keep at this for a few more months, there will be some sizeable breakthroughs. It makes sense that I wasn't making progress if I wasn't understanding my true, innermost reasons for doing things.

2) Just surrender to the fact that I will have these problems forever and get used to the loneliness that comes from being this way. If I choose this route I am basically accepting that 80-90% of the population will just be put-off by me. Or, at least, it has felt that way.

Regardless of what I do, I SO want to be done with the cacophony of painful, annoying criticisms that follow my every interaction. I don't think it's helpful at all. And I want some peace for hell's sake. I feel like if I want to reflect on important moments, it should be enough to do it ONCE, draw a conclusion and then be done.

But maybe my brain keeps bringing up these moments over and over to me because it wants me to find the true, correct conclusion and I have just never been good at finding it. I actually think there may be some truth to this.



If anyone has been though similar things or has some insights, let me know.

 

[OnlyOneSolution]

You just wrote my story. That is exactly how it unfolds for me. I get lonely, I try, I leave, I analyze, I self criticize, I get depressed, I say f*** it and give up, I get lonely, I try.........
It never stops. I don't get negative feedback but I "feel" negative vibes. I see myself as a colossal failure socially. So, I stay alone more than I want to.

Maybe we just overanalyze and people aren't offended as often as we think. Maybe our low self image convinces us that we suck when we are just "normal". Idk...I wish I could figure it out.

 

[LittleJem]

I don't know what country you are in - I am UK - erm and my area has an 'autism network' with classes/events for people with autism. I'm not diagnosed personally but am going to call them… I think I have it and am socially awkward definitely. I don't know what it will be like - but I think at least there will be staff there and other people so it's something social that's easier…

My worst slip recently was telling an Asian dude with blue eyes that he looked tanned. It just slipped out without thinking. He also has mental illness and the comment made him grimace though he didn't say anything. I didn't have a filter that day…My usual strategy is to be more quiet.

Try shrooms? I was reading people with autism on Reddit talk about shrooms, it's worth a read…



Wear a badge saying 'I am autistic' to help people understand you?

I cope with loneliness with weed…

 

[mango-meridian]

You just wrote my story. That is exactly how it unfolds for me. I get lonely, I try, I leave, I analyze, I self criticize, I get depressed, I say f*** it and give up, I get lonely, I try.........
It never stops. I don't get negative feedback but I "feel" negative vibes. I see myself as a colossal failure socially. So, I stay alone more than I want to.

Maybe we just overanalyze and people aren't offended as often as we think. Maybe our low self image convinces us that we suck when we are just "normal". Idk...I wish I could figure it out.

It's good to hear that someone else relates. It totally is a cycle. Occasionally I can get away from a gathering/event unscathed, without the onslaught of self criticism, but it's a rarity.

I think my brain does sometimes distort things to make me feel more unliked than I am. But then I look at the objective outcomes of my interactions and I notice how rare it is for people to want to hang out with me regularly and how I end up at the "bottom rung" of the social ladder in nearly every group I'm in and I think, "Yeah, a lot of this is my fault."

I don't know what country you are in - I am UK - erm and my area has an 'autism network' with classes/events for people with autism. I'm not diagnosed personally but am going to call them… I think I have it and am socially awkward definitely. I don't know what it will be like - but I think at least there will be staff there and other people so it's something social that's easier…

My worst slip recently was telling an Asian dude with blue eyes that he looked tanned. It just slipped out without thinking. He also has mental illness and the comment made him grimace though he didn't say anything. I didn't have a filter that day…My usual strategy is to be more quiet.

Try shrooms? I was reading people with autism on Reddit talk about shrooms, it's worth a read…



Wear a badge saying 'I am autistic' to help people understand you?

I cope with loneliness with weed…

The autism network is a new idea. I haven't heard of something like that near me but it probably exists?

It's funny you mention shrooms because a couple years ago I actually did try them, just not in a clinical setting. I think they helped me to feel love and empathy more deeply, which was very much needed. That didn't address all of the other things I've mentioned though. Still a long way to go.

 

[Alpenglow]

I can try helping if you'd like. I'm not certain how you "review" your interactions, what do you prioritise and how do you determine when something wrong has happened? It's possible some information isn't available and your brain is filling the gaps with self-deprecation.

I kinda try reviewing my interactions and I feel like I'm decent at it but sometimes I just feel like I'm stupid lol

 

[OnlyOneSolution]

It's good to hear that someone else relates. It totally is a cycle. Occasionally I can get away from a gathering/event unscathed, without the onslaught of self criticism, but it's a rarity.

I think my brain does sometimes distort things to make me feel more unliked than I am. But then I look at the objective outcomes of my interactions and I notice how rare it is for people to want to hang out with me regularly and how I end up at the "bottom rung" of the social ladder in nearly every group I'm in and I think, "Yeah, a lot of this is my fault."

I wish I couldn't relate, but you worded it better than my brain does during self talk. It sucks. Makes me want CTB more and more.

 

[alienfreak]

I experience the same. It seems to make the most sense to me to try to take some middle-path. To make some effort and do some self-analysis, but still accept that it can only ever go so far, and try to give up on self-analysis when it gets to the point that it feels like it isnt worth it or is counterproductive. When it becomes "obsessive analysis" then it has likely gone too far.

One thing i have noticed: a few times, when i obsessively analysed an interaction for months, i suddenly had what seemed like a genuine insight. It reminds me of gambling and social media scrolling dynamics where people become addicted to unhealthy behaviour when eventually there is a randomised 'win' and you never know when it will happen. Perhaps it should be looked at in the same way and we need to try to estimate if the expected win rate is worth it or not.

 

[Alpenglow]

I experience the same. It seems to make the most sense to me to try to take some middle-path. To make some effort and do some self-analysis, but still accept that it can only ever go so far, and try to give up on self-analysis when it gets to the point that it feels like it isnt worth it or is counterproductive. When it becomes "obsessive analysis" then it has likely gone too far.

One thing i have noticed: a few times, when i obsessively analysed an interaction for months, i suddenly had what seemed like a genuine insight. It reminds me of gambling and social media scrolling mechanics where people become addicted to unhealthy behaviour because eventually there is a randomised 'win' and you never know when it will happen. Perhaps it should be looked at in the same way and we need to try to estimate if the expected win rate is worth it or not.

Fuck, they integrated a lootbox mechanic in my head

 

[FeyB]

I think a lot of my behaviors probably have to do with my autism, OCD, anxiety and other mental health problems.

Autistic and diagnosed anxiety disorder here, been going through the same problem of yours day by day, especilaly there are some moments in which I can be very proud of my self and then see everything go down the drain into a spiral of self-hatred thoughts.

1) Keep trying. I do think that lately I have gotten a lot better at having awareness of my inner emotions and my reasons for acting in certain ways. I feel like maybe if I keep at this for a few more months, there will be some sizeable breakthroughs. It makes sense that I wasn't making progress if I wasn't understanding my true, innermost reasons for doing things.

2) Just surrender to the fact that I will have these problems forever and get used to the loneliness that comes from being this way. If I choose this route I am basically accepting that 80-90% of the population will just be put-off by me. Or, at least, it has felt that way.

But maybe my brain keeps bringing up these moments over and over to me because it wants me to find the true, correct conclusion and I have just never been good at finding it. I actually think there may be some truth to this.

If anyone has been though similar things or has some insights, let me know.

My brain always tries to give me such an ultimatum because it's "easier" for the human being to label as black and white our decision.
In my opinion, as a person going trough the same struggle, the answer is neither. From reading your passage I think you maybe judging yourself too hard. You don't need to be perfect tomorrow. You wrote yourself that you are keep getting better and better so try to reflect on that, remember every step that you are doing because it's very hard. I hate doing such a thing but it really helps self-pacifying focusing on your achievements

I don't know what country you are in - I am UK - erm and my area has an 'autism network' with classes/events for people with autism. I'm not diagnosed personally but am going to call them…

SUPER AGREE
I'm Autistic and these self-support group helps me a ton, Just had one last week I remember feeling so much better afterwards. The same reason SS works, you can find lots of likeminded people and it helps: in italy we say mal comune mezzo gaudio which translates to "common sorrow half joy"

1 Try shrooms? I was reading people with autism on Reddit talk about shrooms, it's worth a read…
2 Wear a badge saying 'I am autistic' to help people understand you?
3 I cope with loneliness with weed…

1 it helped me a lot to relief stress trough my journey with shrooms especially.
3 I would suggest against it, might be helpful for some social interaction and I did it too for this reason but it often comes with downsides that may make the rest of your condition worse (not of the drug itslef but making it an habit can be damaging to your lifestile)
2 I like it as a suggestion, especially if you are really really anxious, it was also suggested at an autism convention made by psychiatrist in which I participated where you had a badge clearly showing if you are open to talk or not.

 

[Hvergelmir]

I'm talking about things like not offending people, not being insensitive, not being too blunt, not being creepy, not being too "forward", not being too "passive", not being too cringe, not being too weird, not making people feel inadequate, etc.

I've tried this strategy too, but have realized that neutralizing flaws can only get you so far.
Each of the listed flaws are things I and many others can tolerate. My friends are allowed to be blunt, insensitive and weird, as long as I know what to expect.

Unless the flaws are very prominent, you're often better off focusing on what you value and what you can provide in a social context. In my experience people are judged primarily by their qualities, not their flaws.
Social success will never be about lack of enemies, but about the people who appreciate you.

 

[Leiot]

Me too. Lots of self-criticism. It feels good while I'm out with people until it doesn't. I stopped wondering what's wrong with me. Whatever it is, it's fundamental.

 

[-Link-]

@mango-meridian if autism-driven social miscues are your worst offences, then I wonder how much self-criticism is actually fair or justified. It takes two to talk, and each person is responsible for what they say, but each person is also responsible for how they react to the other. If the other person has a negative reaction and can't understand (or won't try to understand) where you're coming from, that's not on you. That's on them.

Basically, I'd look at giving yourself permission to offend people -- developing somewhat of a "so what?" attitude about it. Of course keep working on your communication styles as you see fit to do so, but this can be done while also trying to be kinder and easier on yourself in this sense.

In looking at the struggle of loneliness and overcoming social challenges, I love the above-mentioned suggestions about an autism network or support groups -- connecting with other sufferers, gaining insights and learning from them, maybe even drawing inspiration from some of them.

I know you're dealing with godawful suffering in this, and I am very much hoping you'll be able to find some answers and some relief.

 

[mango-meridian]

Thanks for the responses everybody!

I can try helping if you'd like. I'm not certain how you "review" your interactions, what do you prioritise and how do you determine when something wrong has happened? It's possible some information isn't available and your brain is filling the gaps with self-deprecation.

I kinda try reviewing my interactions and I feel like I'm decent at it but sometimes I just feel like I'm stupid lol

Thanks. Maybe I'll hit you up some time if there's a good example that comes my way.

I experience the same. It seems to make the most sense to me to try to take some middle-path. To make some effort and do some self-analysis, but still accept that it can only ever go so far, and try to give up on self-analysis when it gets to the point that it feels like it isnt worth it or is counterproductive. When it becomes "obsessive analysis" then it has likely gone too far.

One thing i have noticed: a few times, when i obsessively analysed an interaction for months, i suddenly had what seemed like a genuine insight. It reminds me of gambling and social media scrolling dynamics where people become addicted to unhealthy behaviour when eventually there is a randomised 'win' and you never know when it will happen. Perhaps it should be looked at in the same way and we need to try to estimate if the expected win rate is worth it or not.

That's interesting. I never thought of comparing it to gambling. I guess the great insights can really be that rare though.

My brain always tries to give me such an ultimatum because it's "easier" for the human being to label as black and white our decision.
In my opinion, as a person going trough the same struggle, the answer is neither. From reading your passage I think you maybe judging yourself too hard. You don't need to be perfect tomorrow. You wrote yourself that you are keep getting better and better so try to reflect on that, remember every step that you are doing because it's very hard. I hate doing such a thing but it really helps self-pacifying focusing on your achievements

That's true. Ultimatums are no good. I think I have a habit of judging an interaction as universally bad just because I did a couple things wrong.

3 I would suggest against it, might be helpful for some social interaction and I did it too for this reason but it often comes with downsides that may make the rest of your condition worse (not of the drug itslef but making it an habit can be damaging to your lifestile)

Yeah I think weed is helpful for some but I'm trying not to use any drugs/substances right now. I already have addictive traits as it is and I feel as though it could become a crutch for me.

I've tried this strategy too, but have realized that neutralizing flaws can only get you so far.
Each of the listed flaws are things I and many others can tolerate. My friends are allowed to be blunt, insensitive and weird, as long as I know what to expect.

Unless the flaws are very prominent, you're often better off focusing on what you value and what you can provide in a social context. In my experience people are judged primarily by their qualities, not their flaws.
Social success will never be about lack of enemies, but about the people who appreciate you.

This is actually a profound and useful insight I think. Thanks. I'll have to ponder on it.

Me too. Lots of self-criticism. It feels good while I'm out with people until it doesn't. I stopped wondering what's wrong with me. Whatever it is, it's fundamental.

Does it feel like patterns that can't be changed or like you're not sure what you could/should change?

if autism-driven social miscues are your worst offences, then I wonder how much self-criticism is actually fair or justified. It takes two to talk, and each person is responsible for what they say, but each person is also responsible for how they react to the other. If the other person has a negative reaction and can't understand (or won't try to understand) where you're coming from, that's not on you. That's on them.

Basically, I'd look at giving yourself permission to offend people -- developing somewhat of a "so what?" attitude about it. Of course keep working on your communication styles as you see fit to do so, but this can be done while also trying to be kinder and easier on yourself in this sense.

In looking at the struggle of loneliness and overcoming social challenges, I love the above-mentioned suggestions about an autism network or support groups -- connecting with other sufferers, gaining insights and learning from them, maybe even drawing inspiration from some of them.

I know you're dealing with godawful suffering in this, and I am very much hoping you'll be able to find some answers and some relief.

Yeah, it's true I might be taking responsibility for things that aren't really "mine". At the same time I'm painfully aware that just because people "should" react in a certain way doesn't mean they will. I feel like I need as many allies as I can get, and a lot of the ways in which I've been speaking/interacting throughout my life haven't been conducive to that.

One might hope autism would be a reasonable excuse for a lot of things, but it seems like in the real world most people just don't care. Something said because of a desire to be offensive versus because of autism-driven bluntness get roughly the same response in my experience. Sigh. We do what we can I guess.

 

[-Link-]

Yeah, it's true I might be taking responsibility for things that aren't really "mine". At the same time I'm painfully aware that just because people "should" react in a certain way doesn't mean they will.

One might hope autism would be a reasonable excuse for a lot of things, but it seems like in the real world most people just don't care. Something said because of a desire to be offensive versus because of autism-driven bluntness get roughly the same response in my experience. Sigh. We do what we can I guess.

I feel like somebody who is offensive with intent gets treated a lot better than somebody whose illness results in social miscues and challenges. I mean, one gets shunned, outcast, and gaslit into believing they're the problem... And the other, let's say, could one day find themselves poised to be elected President of the United States -- for a second time!!

I think it's fair to say the "real world" is letting you down and failing you very badly, and that part of this failure is gaslighting you into doubting yourself and carrying more than your own share of responsibility in this.

I feel like I need as many allies as I can get, and a lot of the ways in which I've been speaking/interacting throughout my life haven't been conducive to that.

In the OP, you estimated 80%-90% of the population would be put off by you. Those are some pretty intimidating numbers, but it would still leave a lot of people out there who might appreciate you for you. And if the replies of understanding and support in this thread are any indicator of what's out there among those 10-20%, then they are definitely worth seeking out as potential allies.