Discussion "Things can be so MUCH worse. You should be grateful!"

[LuzurPhagget]

How do you feel hearing something like this?

In a way, I totally agree. Things CAN always get worse! Lol, that's one thing I've truly learned in life. But fuck, can't things be better too? Is that too much to ask?!?

I think gratitude is actually very integral to living a more content/joyful life. At some point in your life, you just have to be content with what you have and not wanting more. Lol, so does that make me a greedy prick for still not being happy?!?

At this point in my life, I don't think I'd really have many qualms about dying. I mean, if I could die in a sacrificial way or die in a way knowing my death had some beneficial impact, I think I might actually consider it! I just feel like I can't get anywhere in this life and I keep being told to just "enjoy the ride," but fuck, maybe my brain's simply not wired that way?

And also, I'm trying to be more positive and shit ("there are no problems, only solutions" "There are no viruses, just vaccines" etc), but I'm starting to realize that maybe that just isn't enough. I feel like a lot of us here notice a lot of flaws/shortcomings in society that we would like to change. And honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong with that! I believe we should always be striving for improvement... but then there's that stupid notion of "not being grateful for what IS." Argh! Maybe the problem is that we THINK there's a problem rather than just letting things BE. Argh! Maybe there is no spoon! Maybe the key to life is being perpetually stoned/in a daze and simply not giving a fuck lol.

 

[Ipassbutter]

I think the problem is that tangible 'things' do not really determine your level of content. On paper my life might look great to someone else, and I've been hugely lucky with a lot.
But you can't measure inner demons, self esteem, and personal satisfaction.

 

[LuzurPhagget]

I think the problem is that tangible 'things' do not really determine your level of content. On paper my life might look great to someone else, and I've been hugely lucky with a lot.
But you can't measure inner demons, self esteem, and personal satisfaction.

I've been reading this book on happiness quotes and one of them said something along the lines of "once one has all their basic needs, no extra amount of things has any affect on happiness."

And I believe one should always strive to be the best version of themselves and that may entail being a top leader of an organization/group/whatever, but that may not necessarily bring about happiness. People can strive for the fancy things in life and titles, but they can still be miserable as fuck. It's fascinating.

 

[Marktheghost]

Firstly, yes things could be so much better too!

Secondly, if there's any possibility that things can be any worse, that's all the more reason to want to die.

It's like when people say things like "if you went to a 3rd world country and saw all the suffering there, you'd feel happier". I happen to care about other people. If I know other people are suffering too, that just depresses me even more! If I knew that everyone else was happy, and I was the only person in the world going through suffering, that would be more likely to cheer me up!

 

[Squiddy]

I hate when people say that. It's not a competition on who has it worse

 

[Pryras]

Everyone perceives and manages their trauma differently so there really is no point in making comparisons and trivializing someone's pain.

When I miscarried, it was VERY traumatic but definitely no where near as bad as say a mother who lost her newborn after years of trying. I healed from it fairly quick (several months later) but was struck with new completely different trauma that may be perceived as trivial to some people. It's been almost a year but i still shatter just THINKING about what happened with the guy.

Could it be worse? Definitely, but I'm not in the position to make that call for someone and trivialize their pain in the process.

 

[rebelsue]

"there are no problems, only solutions"

What the fuck stupid moron said that to you? Of course there are problems. Being positive doesn't mean ignoring that there are problems. It's believing you can solve them that is positive. Saying ""there are no problems, only solutions" is just polyanna invalidating bullshit. It's borderline psychotic.

 

[LuzurPhagget]

What the fuck stupid moron said that to you? Of course there are problems. Being positive doesn't mean ignoring that there are problems. It's believing you can solve them that is positive. Saying ""there are no problems, only solutions" is just polyanna invalidating bullshit. It's borderline psychotic.

...John Lennon

Everyone perceives and manages their trauma differently so there really is no point in making comparisons and trivializing someone's pain.

When I miscarried, it was VERY traumatic but definitely no where near as bad as say a mother who lost her newborn after years of trying. I healed from it fairly quick (several months later) but was struck with new completely different trauma that may be perceived as trivial to some people. It's been almost a year but i still shatter just THINKING about what happened with the guy.

Could it be worse? Definitely, but I'm not in the position to make that call for someone and trivialize their pain in the process.

Miscarriages can be JUST as traumatic I think. Some mothers even go on to name their expected kid before their born. My brother in-laws sister miscarried and they still refer to the miscarriage with an actual name.

Anyway, sorry you had to go through that.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

@LuzurPhagget

Is that too much to ask?!?

If you want friends, yes. If you primary goal is to survive, yes.

Lol, so does that make me a greedy prick for still not being happy?!?

No, feelings aren't under your control. Contrary to what virtue ethicists like Aristotle believed, I don't think feelings are appropriate objects for moral judgement.

not being grateful for what IS

You don't need to be. Just dont expect positive reaction from those around you who have decided to invest in the game, because they need to rationalize to a certain extent to stay alive. And who knows, maybe they are actually grateful and satisfied. If you want to live and think you can "cultivate" this gratitude within you, then go ahead. I've tried writing a "gratitude journal" in the past and it can make a difference to your mood simply because more positive things are floating around in your head.

 

[Remember to forget]

It's the same when you are illI, there will always be someone who will churp up about how they had been ill but much worse than you, so what? Doesn't take away the fact you still feel shit. People just need to have more compassion and understanding of what other are going through.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Edit: I realize there is a contradiction in what I just said: "feelings aren't under your control" vs "it can make a difference to your mood".

I still think feelings aren't to be judged, only intents, actions and consequences.

It's the same when you are illI, there will always be someone who will churp up about how they had been ill but much worse than you, so what? Doesn't take away the fact you still feel shit. People just need to have more compassion and understanding of what other are going through.

Yes but they often conflate pain with suffering. Some people have cancer and don't become depressed. Some people have cancer and become depressed. And some people don't have cancer and become depressed

The problem is always the becoming depressed. These are ignorant people. They are in essence totally unaware of the fact that other people experience the world differently, and that your threshold for becoming depressed or overwhelmed is outside of your control. They are more resilient by nature and fallaciously attribute this characteristic to a moral quality, as if "not becoming depressed" was somehow a choice you made, a la "should I become depressed and lose the will to live over this cancer or not"? —"meh, I think I chose to become depressed, seems like the sensible thing to do".

 

[cant cry]

Actually I think knowing there are people suffering even more makes people sadder. Sad for the other people suffering, and sad because it means things could get worse for ourselves.

 

[rebelsue]

...John Lennon

Well I guess that explains it. Just because he was famous doesn't mean he was right. he was good at music and being a hippie. That sounds exactly like something a hippie would say. Daniel Dennet, a philosopher, calls those kinds of statements "Deepities" -- they are trivially true and sound really good but are logically retarded.

 

[LuzurPhagget]

Well I guess that explains it. Just because he was famous doesn't mean he was right. he was good at music and being a hippie. That sounds exactly like something a hippie would say. Daniel Dennet, a philosopher, calls those kinds of statements "Deepities" -- they are trivially true and sound really good but are logically retarded.

Lol, on his album "Imagine," where he fully adopted the hippie life and was all about "giving peace a chance," he actually had a pretty scathing song towards former bandmate Paul "How do you sleep?" Ha, how ironic. Promoting world peace and yet, still being unable to make peace with a once good friend. Pretty good song nonetheless.

 

[rebelsue]

Lol, on his album "Imagine," where he fully adopted the hippie life and was all about "giving peace a chance," he actually had a pretty scathing song towards former bandmate Paul "How do you sleep?" Ha, how ironic. Promoting world peace and yet, still being unable to make peace with a once good friend. Pretty good song nonetheless.

Yep, musicians and other famous people are flawed human beings who are wrong just as often as regular folks. Just because you can write good songs doesn't mean you are connected to higher wisdom and knowledge and that people should always listen to you. I am a musician and people say I write good songs...but here I am on a suicide forum. So...case in point.

 

[WinterFaust]

Hearing this over and over again made me feel even worse and more broken because yes, people do have it worse and they manage so why can't I? I was already beating myself up before hearing this as "motivation" so I just became even more suicidal and completely self-isolated and began spiraling. Now I know things can get so much worse on a more intimate level. And I can't help but blame myself for that. Is that the depression or did I just not try hard enough? I usually think it's the latter.

 

[Arrow]

knowing that people have it worse than me makes me feel terrible. i wouldn't want someone to look at me and go "hey, at least im not that guy".

 

[LuzurPhagget]

knowing that people have it worse than me makes me feel terrible. i wouldn't want someone to look at me and go "hey, at least im not that guy".

I know right? What's that poor guy's source of comfort??

 

[ManWithNoName]

How do you feel hearing something like this?

Yeah I hear you - and I too have heard the expression "Things can be do much worse..." mantra which, in my opinion, has become a damned sound-byte. This kind of thinking does not allow for tackling whatever issue(s) one might be struggling with.

 

[Koaster97]

I hate this platitude with a passion. Completely undermines and misunderstands mental health struggles people have. The fact that my life could be so much worse but I am still miserable just makes me even more miserable.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

I know right? What's that poor guy's source of comfort??

Alcohol

 

[Lefty]

I get the saying, but mental illness is so much more, then what someone might see on the outside.

 

[Doomcat]

I hate this platitude with a passion. Completely undermines and misunderstands mental health struggles people have. The fact that my life could be so much worse but I am still miserable just makes me even more miserable.

This! When people try to "cheer me up" by trying to get me to list things to be grateful for, it just makes me feel guilty and even worse.

 

[Marktheghost]

Hello everyone on this site, I am LuzurPhagget's Mum. He is no more. He passed on May 19, or so the police claim, since they found him on May 19.
My Dear young adults, PLEASE, I repeat PLEASE seek help, if not from your own family, from a reputed professional.

I've tried seeking help. Even the professionals aren't interested in helping me. Nobody cares!

Did Luzurphagget commit suicide then?

 

[Amnesty]

Hello everyone on this site, I am LuzurPhagget's Mum. He is no more. He passed on May 19, or so the police claim, since they found him on May 19.
My Dear young adults, PLEASE, I repeat PLEASE seek help, if not from your own family, from a reputed professional. Maybe you have got things all wrong, and feel the whole world is against you. That is just the evil one putting it in your head. Crush that thought. You are far better than that! You are worthy and you are loved! There is a God who created you, and you are here on this earth, for a purpose. Seek that purpose. Open your eyes, they are a window to your heart. If it is closed, you will only see the dark. I hope through this message, all of you will stop and think of what joy you could bring to others. Start with opening/holding a door for someone, or just buying the next person's coffee when standing in line (take-out now due to covid). Bask in that joy, and satisfaction.
Be safe! I believe you can do it!
I couldn't help my own son, because he never ever talked about this feeling. Never!

I am sorry about your lost. It must be hard to know the circumstances had led him to that point. It must be even harder to not blame this forum for giving him the methods on how to suicide.

The words in your message can feel empty and a broken record to some since people have different circumstances or the effect worn off yet I am sure some are moved by your message.

I hope you may find peace.

 

[faraway_beach]

Dear @LuzurPhagget 's mum, I am so sorry for your loss. I think you must be strong, brave, and kind to come here trying to help us. Maybe some of us are young, with temporary troubles, and maybe someone will try now for one more day. Not all, though. It's no one's fault. Hugs from this internet stranger.

 

[Pryras]

I'm so sorry for your loss! @LuzurPhagget and I spoke over pm about our problems and I feel like we resonated with one another a lot as we were from the same cultural background. I hope he's in peace and no longer hurting.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Yeah I'll definitely wipe my hard drive.