Help There were two lists I found on here awhile back: a list of suicide methods and lethality rate, and a list of suicide methods and pain rating?

[KAZ-2Y5]

I stupidly didn't save them can anybody find them for me or has a link saved they can give me?

 

[Redacted24]

Is it this one? I didn't see the list on here but found this one a while back:

Most lethal methods of suicide - Lost All Hope

For information on the most lethal methods of suicide, a good starting point is the statistics on the number of successful suicides by method (see Suicide statistics). There is also a much published study from 19951, where 291 lay persons and 10 forensic pathologists rated the lethality, time...

www.lostallhope.com

 

[dggtscccvfd]

Is it this one? I didn't see the list on here but found this one a while back:

Most lethal methods of suicide - Lost All Hope

For information on the most lethal methods of suicide, a good starting point is the statistics on the number of successful suicides by method (see Suicide statistics). There is also a much published study from 19951, where 291 lay persons and 10 forensic pathologists rated the lethality, time...

www.lostallhope.com

That list is missing SN!

 

[Forever Sleep]

This one?

Suicide Methods

Suicide Methods, by peacefulness (vs agony) (2022) mix of methods from legal resources (wikipedia, this site, and other websites available on the clear net) Nembutal 10 0 10 8 Liquid 1 Nitrogen / Sarco 10 10 10 10 Gas/Mask 10 Fentanyl 10 2 6 7 Injection 2 Carfentanil 10 1 10 10...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[Intoxicated]

This one?

Suicide Methods

Suicide Methods, by peacefulness (vs agony) (2022) mix of methods from legal resources (wikipedia, this site, and other websites available on the clear net) Nembutal 10 0 10 8 Liquid 1 Nitrogen / Sarco 10 10 10 10 Gas/Mask 10 Fentanyl 10 2 6 7 Injection 2 Carfentanil 10 1 10 10...

sanctioned-suicide.net

It's funny how nembutal fanboys rate their N as 100% peaceful & 100% reliable. Maybe IV injections are considered "peaceful", foolproof and easy to do by junkies who puncture their veins on daily basis, but not all people like the feeling of needles in their veins, so this method is definitely not 100% peaceful for everyone. If you take the substance orally instead of doing IV injection, you can say goodbye to high reliability.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's funny how nembutal fanboys rate their N as 100% peaceful & 100% reliable. Maybe IV injections are considered "peaceful", foolproof and easy to do by junkies who puncture their veins on daily basis, but not all people like the feeling of needles in their veins, so this method is definitely not 100% peaceful for everyone. If you take the substance orally instead of doing IV injection, you can say goodbye to high reliability.

I don't know the statistics myself but I imagine Nembutal is 100% effective in a clinic- they're not going to f*ck it up! Most of the cases I've seen have been administered orally there. So- I'm not sure which failures you are refering to? I have seen a failure here where they didn't take enough... The worry of course with home bought N is the likelihood of being scammed. Are you sure these failures were N to begin with?

As for an IV- yeah- I expect you need to know what you're doing! I've had IV's in hospital. Sure- they're not completely painless but, they're not horrendous either. Mine bruised too- the nurse struggled quite a bit. It really wasn't the worse pain I've had though by any means but yeah- likelihood I imagine is most deaths- even natural deaths are accompanied by some level of pain. It's part of the shittiness of having been born into a sentient being sadly. N does seem to be the holy grail- supposedly but I'm sure it wouldn't be a nice experience exactly.

 

[Intoxicated]

I don't know the statistics myself but I imagine Nembutal is 100% effective in a clinic- they're not going to f*ck it up!

In a clinic, professionals can reliably kill you with many methods. It's unfair to compare euthanasia and non-assisted suicide (where other people may play against you, so you have to worry about a possible resuscitation, whose chances grow with higher time before terminal damage).

Most of the cases I've seen have been administered orally there.

The oral way is not 100% peaceful for some people too (see below), and IV route is sometimes used as the backup plan, because the ingested substance may work too slowly.

Advantages and disadvantages compared to an intravenous option

The obvious advantage to oral MAiD is the return of autonomy to the patient at a time when the disease or illness process is outside of their control. This is in contrast to IV routes where the practitioner needs to establish an intravenous (IV) and administer medication on a date, and at a time and location mutually agreed upon between patient and practitioner. Having said that, at least in the short term, prescribing physicians should still need to be present at the time of an oral MAiD provision to obtain a final consent, and ensure the lethal dose of medication is delivered securely, ingested safely, and successfully causes death. This will mean that clinicians will still need to be prepared to obtain vascular access and administer IV medications in the case of failure or delayed effect of the oral medications.

Disadvantages of an oral route when compared to IV administration include issues with impaired absorption or intolerances. Problems with the ability to consume the volume of medication may result in incomplete doses being delivered to the patient. As such, pre-existing significant nausea and vomiting or conditions that significantly impair absorption (e.g Crohn's disease with significant previous bowel resections) may make one consider an IV over an oral route. There is also the disadvantage that you are not able to supplement with more medication via the oral route as it is essentially a one-time dose. If it were deemed ineffective past a certain time point, starting an IV would be necessary to ensure death as an outcome. This contrasts to the IV protocols, where the IV access has already been established and one is able to easily inject more medication if required.

Netherlands

In the Netherlands, the provision of oral and intravenous MAiD has been practiced since 1973 and has been formally legalizaed in 2002.

The current oral protocol, in use since 2012, describes premedication with metoclopramide, an antiemetic and promotility agent, at a dose of 10mg orally every 8 hours for 24 hours leading up to the MAiD procedure. This is followed by the consumption of a barbiturate solution containing either 15 grams of pentobarbital or 15 grams of secobarbital. Because barbiturates taste bitter, one or two ingredients are added to enhance the flavour,to neutralize the pH, and to act as a preservative and prevent crystallization.

A physician is required to attend the patient administration of any oral agents and if the oral agent is not successful within a predetermined amount of time, the physician is able to initiate an IV protocol to complete the process of MAiD. The Dutch Guidelines suggest a maximum period of 2 hours be allowed before intervening with administration of an IV protocol. (KNMP-KNMG, 2012).

A review of the clinical problems associated with the performance of euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide in the Netherlands was published using data from cases in the 1990's (Groenewoud, 2000). In cases of assisted suicide, 3.5% experienced nausea and vomiting and 2.6% experienced extreme gasping. Problems with completion occurred in 16% of cases including a longer-than expected time to death, failure to induce coma or induction of coma followed by awakening of the patient. The attending physician decided to administer IV medication in 18% of the cases because of either problems with completion or inability of the patient to take all the medication.

Prior to 2012, the KNMP and KNMG recommended that doses of 9 grams of barbiturate be used. The dose was increased to 15g to increase the efficacy. The likelihood of inducing death within 60 minutes increased from 87% with 9g to 94% with 15g.

Time to death	N=245 1998-2011 (%) (9-10g dosing)	N=165 2013-2015 (%) (15g dosing)
<30 minutes	70	82
31-60 minutes	17	12
60-120 minutes	9	4
>120 minutes	3	2

Table 7. Time to death comparison between barbiturate dosing of 9-10g (1998-2011) and 15g (2013-2015) in the Netherlands.

Between 1998-2011, intravenous backup was used 20% of cases. Between 2013-2015, intravenous backup was used in 9% of cases. Intravenous backup is discussed prior to the procedure and the time to intervene is mutually agreed upon by patient and clinician. In some cases it is 2 hours, however, some patient may prefer 1 hour or even less. As a result, the times to death listed include those in whom IV MAiD backup was used as well and aren't differentiated.

Of the 165 cases, between 2013-2015, 9 patients displayed some element of retching, 3 patients fell asleep before finishing 100mL of the barbiturate drink and 2 patients displayed some muscular contractions (Horikx, 2016). 3 patients complained of a bad taste, 1 patient reported throat pain and 1 reported stomach pain.

Belgium

In Belgium, both euthanasia and physician assisted death have been legal since 2002 (Emanuel EJ, Onwuteaka-Philipsen BD, Urwin JW, Cohen J, 2016). Administration of an antiemetic followed by pentobarbital is published as the typical oral MAiD provision in Belgium. The dosing or specifics of provision are not available (Bilson et al, 2005). Between 2002 and 2007 in Belgium only 1% of cases of MAiD were oral route (n=34) (Rurup et al, 2011).

Switzerland

Switzerland legalized assisted suicide in 1918 and is the only country to allow non-clinicians to assist in suicide (Hurst and Maroun, 2003). In public health reporting, the Swiss do not differentiate assisted suicide from non-assisted suicide and therefore it is difficult to find data on physician assisted deaths specifically. Formal statements by the Swiss Medical Association in 2002 stating that assisted suicide is not part of a physician's activity prevents Switzerland from developing formalized protocols for oral MAiD. Some physicians do still participate despite this climate, however, no formalized protocols exist. Intravenous MAiD is still illegal.

Canada

In Canada, oral and intravenous MAiD has been legal since June 2016. Practice of oral MAiD has been largely heterogeneous and has not been streamlined to one singular protocol. Canada's legislation allows for both IV MAiD and oral MAiD. In most provinces, for oral MAiD, a clinician is required to be present at the time of MAiD provision and must carry an "IV backup" kit in case death after oral MAiD provision has not occurred within an agreed upon time.

https://camapcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/OralMAiD-Med.pdf

Resuscitation after self-poisoning with pentobarbital is possible: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314932/

I have seen a failure here where they didn't take enough... The worry of course with home bought N is the likelihood of being scammed. Are you sure these failures were N to begin with?

That's a good question. The table in the thread you referenced tells that the reliability of cyanides is just 90%. What exactly does that number indicate? Is it true for people who obtain cyanides from reliable sources and follow the most optimal protocols of consumption? Or someone just decided to compare the effectiveness of pentobarbital under nearly perfect conditions against consumption of cyanides by average headless people?

It's unclear where exactly those stats were obtained from. The numbers look artificial.

Asphyxiation with inert gases, carbon monoxide poisoning, and drowning can be done in many ways whose reliability can vary within a wide range. In particular, burning charcoal in a tent and filling an exit bag with CO produced by decomposition of methanoic acid are entirely different strategies of using the same poisonous gas. Even if we assume that 95% in the table is not just a random value, it's unlikely that it can adequately describe both strategies.

 

[Forever Sleep]

In a clinic, professionals can reliably kill you with many methods. It's unfair to compare euthanasia and non-assisted suicide (where other people may play against you, so you have to worry about a possible resuscitation, whose chances grow with higher time before terminal damage).

The oral way is not 100% peaceful for some people too (see below), and IV route is sometimes used as the backup plan, because the ingested substance may work too slowly.

Advantages and disadvantages compared to an intravenous option

The obvious advantage to oral MAiD is the return of autonomy to the patient at a time when the disease or illness process is outside of their control. This is in contrast to IV routes where the practitioner needs to establish an intravenous (IV) and administer medication on a date, and at a time and location mutually agreed upon between patient and practitioner. Having said that, at least in the short term, prescribing physicians should still need to be present at the time of an oral MAiD provision to obtain a final consent, and ensure the lethal dose of medication is delivered securely, ingested safely, and successfully causes death. This will mean that clinicians will still need to be prepared to obtain vascular access and administer IV medications in the case of failure or delayed effect of the oral medications.

Disadvantages of an oral route when compared to IV administration include issues with impaired absorption or intolerances. Problems with the ability to consume the volume of medication may result in incomplete doses being delivered to the patient. As such, pre-existing significant nausea and vomiting or conditions that significantly impair absorption (e.g Crohn's disease with significant previous bowel resections) may make one consider an IV over an oral route. There is also the disadvantage that you are not able to supplement with more medication via the oral route as it is essentially a one-time dose. If it were deemed ineffective past a certain time point, starting an IV would be necessary to ensure death as an outcome. This contrasts to the IV protocols, where the IV access has already been established and one is able to easily inject more medication if required.

Netherlands

In the Netherlands, the provision of oral and intravenous MAiD has been practiced since 1973 and has been formally legalizaed in 2002.

The current oral protocol, in use since 2012, describes premedication with metoclopramide, an antiemetic and promotility agent, at a dose of 10mg orally every 8 hours for 24 hours leading up to the MAiD procedure. This is followed by the consumption of a barbiturate solution containing either 15 grams of pentobarbital or 15 grams of secobarbital. Because barbiturates taste bitter, one or two ingredients are added to enhance the flavour,to neutralize the pH, and to act as a preservative and prevent crystallization.

A physician is required to attend the patient administration of any oral agents and if the oral agent is not successful within a predetermined amount of time, the physician is able to initiate an IV protocol to complete the process of MAiD. The Dutch Guidelines suggest a maximum period of 2 hours be allowed before intervening with administration of an IV protocol. (KNMP-KNMG, 2012).

A review of the clinical problems associated with the performance of euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide in the Netherlands was published using data from cases in the 1990's (Groenewoud, 2000). In cases of assisted suicide, 3.5% experienced nausea and vomiting and 2.6% experienced extreme gasping. Problems with completion occurred in 16% of cases including a longer-than expected time to death, failure to induce coma or induction of coma followed by awakening of the patient. The attending physician decided to administer IV medication in 18% of the cases because of either problems with completion or inability of the patient to take all the medication.

Prior to 2012, the KNMP and KNMG recommended that doses of 9 grams of barbiturate be used. The dose was increased to 15g to increase the efficacy. The likelihood of inducing death within 60 minutes increased from 87% with 9g to 94% with 15g.

Time to death	N=245 1998-2011 (%) (9-10g dosing)	N=165 2013-2015 (%) (15g dosing)
<30 minutes	70	82
31-60 minutes	17	12
60-120 minutes	9	4
>120 minutes	3	2

Table 7. Time to death comparison between barbiturate dosing of 9-10g (1998-2011) and 15g (2013-2015) in the Netherlands.

Between 1998-2011, intravenous backup was used 20% of cases. Between 2013-2015, intravenous backup was used in 9% of cases. Intravenous backup is discussed prior to the procedure and the time to intervene is mutually agreed upon by patient and clinician. In some cases it is 2 hours, however, some patient may prefer 1 hour or even less. As a result, the times to death listed include those in whom IV MAiD backup was used as well and aren't differentiated.

Of the 165 cases, between 2013-2015, 9 patients displayed some element of retching, 3 patients fell asleep before finishing 100mL of the barbiturate drink and 2 patients displayed some muscular contractions (Horikx, 2016). 3 patients complained of a bad taste, 1 patient reported throat pain and 1 reported stomach pain.

Belgium

In Belgium, both euthanasia and physician assisted death have been legal since 2002 (Emanuel EJ, Onwuteaka-Philipsen BD, Urwin JW, Cohen J, 2016). Administration of an antiemetic followed by pentobarbital is published as the typical oral MAiD provision in Belgium. The dosing or specifics of provision are not available (Bilson et al, 2005). Between 2002 and 2007 in Belgium only 1% of cases of MAiD were oral route (n=34) (Rurup et al, 2011).

Switzerland

Switzerland legalized assisted suicide in 1918 and is the only country to allow non-clinicians to assist in suicide (Hurst and Maroun, 2003). In public health reporting, the Swiss do not differentiate assisted suicide from non-assisted suicide and therefore it is difficult to find data on physician assisted deaths specifically. Formal statements by the Swiss Medical Association in 2002 stating that assisted suicide is not part of a physician's activity prevents Switzerland from developing formalized protocols for oral MAiD. Some physicians do still participate despite this climate, however, no formalized protocols exist. Intravenous MAiD is still illegal.

Canada

In Canada, oral and intravenous MAiD has been legal since June 2016. Practice of oral MAiD has been largely heterogeneous and has not been streamlined to one singular protocol. Canada's legislation allows for both IV MAiD and oral MAiD. In most provinces, for oral MAiD, a clinician is required to be present at the time of MAiD provision and must carry an "IV backup" kit in case death after oral MAiD provision has not occurred within an agreed upon time.

https://camapcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/OralMAiD-Med.pdf

Resuscitation after self-poisoning with pentobarbital is possible: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6314932/


That's a good question. The table in the thread you referenced tells that the reliability of cyanides is just 90%. What exactly does that number indicate? Is it true for people who obtain cyanides from reliable sources and follow the most optimal protocols of consumption? Or someone just decided to compare the effectiveness of pentobarbital under nearly perfect conditions against consumption of cyanides by average headless people?

It's unclear where exactly those stats were obtained from. The numbers look artificial.

Asphyxiation with inert gases, carbon monoxide poisoning, and drowning can be done in many ways whose reliability can vary within a wide range. In particular, burning charcoal in a tent and filling an exit bag with CO produced by decomposition of methanoic acid are entirely different strategies of using the same poisonous gas. Even if we assume that 95% in the table is not just a random value, it's unlikely that it can adequately describe both strategies.

Fair points. I expect a lot of data on home made suicides isn't exactly going to be accurate seeing as it's not something people were around to witness and authorities likely don't want to share too much information. I guess I was just curious as to whether you'd heard of a lot of failed attempts using N. It's unusual to come across someone who doubts it. Most people seem to see it as the holy grail! I expect you're right though.

My friend said she watched an assisted suicide video at a clinic with what presumably was N and the elderly man struggled to drink it, said it tasted disgusting and that it burned his throat. So- who knows? Personally- I'd be happier to be taking that rather than SN but beggars can't be choosers. Plus- I don't fancy breaking the law!