Help Therapist acts like I have a choice in how I feel and what I do and its making me frustrated and angry and miserable

[nohopeforethefuture]

There are probably a million similar threads, but here is mine.

today, at the end of our session, my therapist wanted me to promise to take some time between now and our next session to try and change how I feel if I'm feeling a negative emotion.

I spent a good part of the session explaining why I don't like doing that, because it feels really inauthentic and I hate distractions. At this point in my life, I do not want to change how things are, I just want things to be different. We were trying to sign off and I was trying to avoid promising something I wouldn't do because I know once I go down that road, I will just continue to lie (which I have also brought up before) but maybe she doesnt remember.

I was getting frustrated and said something like "you are asking me to promise something I dont want to do, and If I dont want to do it I wont do it. I can't make myself want this."

she replied with "that is the rule youve set for yourself" - implying that I've just set up random rules in my life that have no meaning and dont matter. And if I just would do what she said I would be all better.

I got more frustrated after that and got a little bold and said "yes, well that is what we're working with" and we kind of left it at that.

I dont know how to explain to her that I can't just DO things. I especially can't just will myself to do things I actively dont want to do. This is not the first time she has said something similar, about the reason I'm acting or behaving a certain way is just because of "rules" I've arbitrarily placed. Thats not true. But it has become painfully obvious that the way I am cannot be "the way it is". I must be CHOOSING this or have some sort of REASON to be this way.

She didnt understand when I said I dont see hope as a positive thing, and she is audibly and visibly confused that I have so much trouble doing everything she wants. She keeps trying to make things such that I feel more positive than I do and while she says there's no wrong feeling, sure feels like it when she keeps trying to make me say I'm feeling less anxious or better. I almost feel like I am not even supposed to exist as I am, like I am some sort of freak of nature. I'm sure if you asked her she would deny all of this and say she understands…but I have no idea why she asks the questions she does then. I have to justify everything I talk about or feel.

I havent been hopeful that therapy would work for me because I feel like I am just so anti the therapeutic process, so maybe I'm just digging my own grave. But I have left every session angry or frustrated because she just doesnt seem to get it. I can't communicate clearly and she says I dont have to communicate perfectly but if I dont she gets the totally wrong idea! This is my 3rd therapist this year, so the problem is probably just me. This may be too depressing for the recovery sub…sorry lol

 

[Midgardsorm]

Hello.

It seems like some kind of suggestion. She is trying to heal you by making you so certain that you're healing that you would feel better, no matter what is really happening to you.
Some kind of placebo. What a joke.

If you're going to therapy to leave session angry, maybe you should switch therapist. Being your third therapist or not, she really seems to lack skills and worse, by putting the blame on you, she refuses to improve her knowledge.

 

[weepingfree]

It's so frustrating to not be listened to… by the person being paid to do so. I don't know if her methods are cognitive-behavorial, but I got no use out of that advice like "stop, realize you're having a negative thought, acknowledge it"

I thought… if this is the answer to my problems, I'm fuxed.

I think you're right to put this in Recovery. You are trying to recover, but the therapeutic establishment is a serious joke. I've had 20 years of therapy and I've made about two breakthroughs and still live in misery. It's a joke of an industry.

That said, I'm not sure how else to heal. I'm broken just like you.

The book Lost Connections by Johann Hari was good… talks about how western individualism has caused widespread depression.

Also I took a hell of a ketamine trip tonight. Three little pink guys equals 450mg equals one trippy lil hippie

 

[CozyTime]

So the method of changing the behaviour is a decent method (in that it has success if applied correctly generally speaking) but she's going about it way the fuck wrong. That kind of thing will only (maybe) have an effect when you reach a spot in life where you feel like you have got more control and have already made some progress that make you comfortable with trying to constantly catch and motivate yourself to not listen to your own feelings.

When you're just in the basics in the sense that you want to be listened to that is quite literally the last thing she should be doing and its completely understandable to find it frustrating as hell.

I hope you're able to get a more understanding/better trained one because you deserve that not getting frustrated by the person that is supposed to allow for some relief by being listened to lol.

 

[meetapple]

I had a therapist who made it a point to not make appointments right after each session was over. The reason was that he wanted the patient to take the initiative to make the appointment out of his realization that he wanted it Instead of just by habit. Perhaps you are resenting the whole process of therapy and need to take some time away from it. Then when you might know whether you really want it or not.

 

[nohopeforethefuture]

Hello.

It seems like some kind of suggestion. She is trying to heal you by making you so certain that you're healing that you would feel better, no matter what is really happening to you.
Some kind of placebo. What a joke.

If you're going to therapy to leave session angry, maybe you should switch therapist. Being your third therapist or not, she really seems to lack skills and worse, by putting the blame on you, she refuses to improve her knowledge.

I'm sorry for the delay, I just havent had time to log back on. I had another session Friday and it didnt seem to go much better.

Thank you for your response. It means a lot to me. I'm just…I feel like the problem is all me and I dont know if changing my therapist again is going to help that. I've recently realized that…I dont want to change. Well no - I've known that for a long time. But recently I realized that its because my entire life I've felt like I'm never enough and I'm always wrong, and going to therapy twice a week is what I thought I wanted and needed, but now I feel like I'm just reinforcing that idea twice as much.

I dont know how to convey that to my therapist because I can't actually talk about things that bother me in session. And I'm just the worst kind of person. She again wanted me to set goals for our next session and I refused to do it which she didnt seem to understand again because I "keep showing up". I had already made mental plans to possibly make food that night but after our session I felt so awful that I just didnt do anything. It's like the more someone wants to help, the more ill intentionally do everything in my power to do the opposite. I feel like a joke on existence.

It's so frustrating to not be listened to… by the person being paid to do so. I don't know if her methods are cognitive-behavorial, but I got no use out of that advice like "stop, realize you're having a negative thought, acknowledge it"

I thought… if this is the answer to my problems, I'm fuxed.

I think you're right to put this in Recovery. You are trying to recover, but the therapeutic establishment is a serious joke. I've had 20 years of therapy and I've made about two breakthroughs and still live in misery. It's a joke of an industry.

That said, I'm not sure how else to heal. I'm broken just like you.

The book Lost Connections by Johann Hari was good… talks about how western individualism has caused widespread depression.

Also I took a hell of a ketamine trip tonight. Three little pink guys equals 450mg equals one trippy lil hippie

Thank you for responding, I'm glad someone else has had a similar situation to mine. I can't tell if I'm just not trying hard enough (which I believe) or if therapy just really doesnt work for me (which I also believe). I have a question tho - is it super normal for therapists to say "let's talk about this next session" or to give you homework and then just never bring it up next time? Am I supposed to bring that up? Because I am super avoidant in therapy and I hardly ever will, but it bothers me so much that none of the 3 therapists I've had seem to follow up on what they say they will.

As an example, my third session we talked about my hygiene and how I dont shower very much. My therapist suggested a bath instead, but I said it would take too long. Her solution was to buy an electric razor for out of the bath, buy bath bubbles, and take a bath instead of a shower before our next session (which was 3-4 days away depending on if you count the current day). That…was a lot for me. I dont shop on Amazon, which was her suggestion, and I can't just buy things I've never used before, and I'm not motivated enough to go to the store and buy bubbles and such and the entire idea was just too much for me. I ended up showering on the day before our next session and was going to tell her how it had been too much but then we never talked about it.

Last session on Tuesday we talked about how my best friend and i's relationship is, and I kind of skirted over my first major suicide attempt in 2019 that changed a lot of things for me. She said we would revisit the 2019 "event" on Friday, and we didnt talk about it at all yesterday.

I know I'm not proactive, and I never have been because my environment growing up did not foster that kind of personal growth. Its not something I can just be or just do and I get the feeling that I'm not the right kind of person to be in therapy. Btw, I do like that book suggestion. I agree wholeheartedly, while also being a hypocrite and not fostering community connections and actively disliking it. Maybe also a byproduct of how I grew up.

Do you do ketamine recreationally or prescribed? I've never done recreational drugs and probably never will, although I am prescribed some meds for my depression that I'm convinced dont work. I havent been taking them for a month now so we'll see what happens on Monday with my psych appointment. Idk if ill lie or have the courage to say that I dont think they help - again. I just dont feel any different on them. At all. And my mood swings didnt stop while on them (although meds are just supposed to help me handle them better?) and I just lost my motivation/will to even attempt to take them.

So the method of changing the behaviour is a decent method (in that it has success if applied correctly generally speaking) but she's going about it way the fuck wrong. That kind of thing will only (maybe) have an effect when you reach a spot in life where you feel like you have got more control and have already made some progress that make you comfortable with trying to constantly catch and motivate yourself to not listen to your own feelings.

When you're just in the basics in the sense that you want to be listened to that is quite literally the last thing she should be doing and its completely understandable to find it frustrating as hell.

I hope you're able to get a more understanding/better trained one because you deserve that not getting frustrated by the person that is supposed to allow for some relief by being listened to lol.

Thank you. I dont know if she feels this way because I've been in therapy since February and she's my third one? Maybe she thinks I already made progress or something. Maybe I should have by now.

And its like - I want some things to change. God I hate that word - change. But I do. I want to change how I eat and I want to change how fit I am (I'm not fit at all rn). But I dont want to change anything about myself and I dont know how to explain that to anyone. If I'm feeling sad, I dont want someone to say I'm being irrational (even if I am by their standards) and that I should "feel the emotion" but then "let it go". Like…what? Let it go? Fuck no lady I dont just get to decide what I feel and what I don't feel. Do people actually do this? I freely admit that emotions control my life, I dont control them. But I'm so tired of being wrong all the time! I dont want to be fixed. I dont want to constantly change things about myself because I wasnt good enough already. I never have been. And if I have to do all this work to be good enough then I would rather just die. I'm never good enough the way I am.

But the problem is I know I'm not good enough the way I am. I have unhealthy attachments and hurt the people I'm close to and I'm very unhappy all the time. But I dont know how to communicate well and I'm sure it frustrates the therapists because they can't see inside my head and feel what I feel.

My therapist said last session that I could think of a "focus" I wanted for next session since I refused to set a goal once again. I've decided my "focus" will be that I need to want to want to do something to do it. I know she wants it to be food related because she thinks I have ARFID but I didnt start therapy for an eating disorder - she just did that on her own. If anything I should address it once I am even able to do anything at all. Because most of the time I just can't/wont do anything.

 

[LittleJem]

@nohopeforethefuture some therapists think we can 'take responsibility for our mental illness and depression and change it. That's because they don't have a mental illness. They don't know what it's like and they have some fluffy ideas about it.

I had terrible suicidal thoughts (worse than normal) thanks to PMT hormones and my ex-therapist told me I wasn't 'taking responsibility' for my thoughts. I'd like to see him flooded with PMT hormones and how he holds up against it. F**khead.

They say therapy is more helpful with a working medication. I don't have a working medication but I know that the few times I have felt better from something/anything I have taken, I look at life differently. I look at everything differently.

It's like everyone saying have gratitude it's good for you - but with clinical depression, it is impossible to feel it and impossible to force it. There's an 'inner smile' meditation they do in Daoism and I have never been able to do it. Because with my illness, it feels just unnatural and miserable to do it.

In my opinion, it's chemistry. There's a book by Dr Daniel Amen called 'Change your brain, change your life'. It's a bit controversial, as he uses SPECT brain scans to see what is wrong with someone, then he gives them medication. He was helping people with self-help programmes, but some people never responded, while others were helped immensely. He realised that it was because they didn't have the hardware in their brains to run the programme - so now he helps people with medication.

I hope your medication helps you. It's a living nightmare.
Also, your therapist ideally would listen and accept you as you are, then gently move you along if that was possible. I recommend calling the Samaritans in the UK - they generally listen beautifully. Not everyone likes them, but I think they are AMAZING. And the best thing - they do it out of kindness and not for money!

 

[nohopeforethefuture]

@nohopeforethefuture some therapists think we can 'take responsibility for our mental illness and depression and change it. That's because they don't have a mental illness. They don't know what it's like and they have some fluffy ideas about it.

I had terrible suicidal thoughts (worse than normal) thanks to PMT hormones and my ex-therapist told me I wasn't 'taking responsibility' for my thoughts. I'd like to see him flooded with PMT hormones and how he holds up against it. F**khead.

They say therapy is more helpful with a working medication. I don't have a working medication but I know that the few times I have felt better from something/anything I have taken, I look at life differently. I look at everything differently.

It's like everyone saying have gratitude it's good for you - but with clinical depression, it is impossible to feel it and impossible to force it. There's an 'inner smile' meditation they do in Daoism and I have never been able to do it. Because with my illness, it feels just unnatural and miserable to do it.

In my opinion, it's chemistry. There's a book by Dr Daniel Amen called 'Change your brain, change your life'. It's a bit controversial, as he uses SPECT brain scans to see what is wrong with someone, then he gives them medication. He was helping people with self-help programmes, but some people never responded, while others were helped immensely. He realised that it was because they didn't have the hardware in their brains to run the programme - so now he helps people with medication.

I hope your medication helps you. It's a living nightmare.
Also, your therapist ideally would listen and accept you as you are, then gently move you along if that was possible. I recommend calling the Samaritans in the UK - they generally listen beautifully. Not everyone likes them, but I think they are AMAZING. And the best thing - they do it out of kindness and not for money!

Thank you for your kind suggestion, unfortunately I am in the US. i also sometimes get severe suicidal tendencies. But I dont feel like I can talk about them because I am a horrible liar and I dont want to be committed. I do have the means and a time (if I felt like it) and I would never promise to not kill myself if I was feeling super suicidal. Especially not just because my psych or therapist asked - like why would I care about what they think? So I can't just lie and say I've been thinking about it but dont have the means or a time, because they would figure it out pretty easily. I'm not super suicidal right now, but I go through phases. Right now I'm in a more good phase.

As for my meds, I havent actually taken them in a month. I didnt feel like they were doing anything (zero effects at all). Supposed to be taking Wellbutrin (generic). Was on generic Lexapro but didnt feel anything different on that either so psych said I could stop.

But the biggest problem is that I dont and can't trust my own judgment on anything. And im the one thats supposed to know if the meds are working, if the therapy is working, if anything is working and like how the fuck am I supposed to know? I am not like other people. Whatever instinct others have that tells them when things are good or bad I dont have. But I dont really have the willpower to keep going through the motions when it doesnt seem to be doing anything. I have a huge discipline problem.

Because sometimes, like now, I go through productive spurts. I cook, I actually do some things, maybe even take care of some chores, but it doesnt stay this way. So I know even if I applied myself and did other things to get better, I would lose the motivation eventually. Not sure how to help that and the answer seems to just "do it anyways" but like thats the problem?? I can't just do it anyways…

 

[Alwaysbadtime]

I don't think it's 'you'...I think you're in a tough spot and your therapists don't understand. This is just my opinion. Find someone new or maybe take a break from it if you can.

 

[lugerepair]

There are probably a million similar threads, but here is mine.

today, at the end of our session, my therapist wanted me to promise to take some time between now and our next session to try and change how I feel if I'm feeling a negative emotion.

I spent a good part of the session explaining why I don't like doing that, because it feels really inauthentic and I hate distractions. At this point in my life, I do not want to change how things are, I just want things to be different. We were trying to sign off and I was trying to avoid promising something I wouldn't do because I know once I go down that road, I will just continue to lie (which I have also brought up before) but maybe she doesnt remember.

I was getting frustrated and said something like "you are asking me to promise something I dont want to do, and If I dont want to do it I wont do it. I can't make myself want this."

she replied with "that is the rule youve set for yourself" - implying that I've just set up random rules in my life that have no meaning and dont matter. And if I just would do what she said I would be all better.

I got more frustrated after that and got a little bold and said "yes, well that is what we're working with" and we kind of left it at that.

I dont know how to explain to her that I can't just DO things. I especially can't just will myself to do things I actively dont want to do. This is not the first time she has said something similar, about the reason I'm acting or behaving a certain way is just because of "rules" I've arbitrarily placed. Thats not true. But it has become painfully obvious that the way I am cannot be "the way it is". I must be CHOOSING this or have some sort of REASON to be this way.

She didnt understand when I said I dont see hope as a positive thing, and she is audibly and visibly confused that I have so much trouble doing everything she wants. She keeps trying to make things such that I feel more positive than I do and while she says there's no wrong feeling, sure feels like it when she keeps trying to make me say I'm feeling less anxious or better. I almost feel like I am not even supposed to exist as I am, like I am some sort of freak of nature. I'm sure if you asked her she would deny all of this and say she understands…but I have no idea why she asks the questions she does then. I have to justify everything I talk about or feel.

I havent been hopeful that therapy would work for me because I feel like I am just so anti the therapeutic process, so maybe I'm just digging my own grave. But I have left every session angry or frustrated because she just doesnt seem to get it. I can't communicate clearly and she says I dont have to communicate perfectly but if I dont she gets the totally wrong idea! This is my 3rd therapist this year, so the problem is probably just me. This may be too depressing for the recovery sub…sorry lol

Get a different therapist. Seriously. She sounds like a bad therapist. And I've seen many different therapists so I have some experience in the matter. I don't think you're the issue, I think most therapists suck.

Or don't get a therapist. I've had much more success just finding my own coping mechanisms through books and such. Look up Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). It's all about accepting your emotions and not trying to change them. In fact, trying to change your emotions is considered counterproductive in ACT. It's about feeling your emotions and giving them space...among other things. It's honestly way better than traditional CBT (what most therapists practice, which is kinda garbage imo). Feel free to PM me with questions about it, I can explain it more and send you resources and book recommendations and such (I cannot provide emotional support though, only information, I really wanna emphasize that).

 

[nohopeforethefuture]

I don't think it's 'you'...I think you're in a tough spot and your therapists don't understand. This is just my opinion. Find someone new or maybe take a break from it if you can.

Thanks. =) I know if I take a break though, I wont ever go back. And it took so long to get here and it wasnt easy and I didnt do it by myself. But the person who helped me get here wont have that kind of time again, so yeah…

Get a different therapist. Seriously. She sounds like a bad therapist. And I've seen many different therapists so I have some experience in the matter. I don't think you're the issue, I think most therapists suck.

Or don't get a therapist. I've had much more success just finding my own coping mechanisms through books and such. Look up Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). It's all about accepting your emotions and not trying to change them. In fact, trying to change your emotions is considered counterproductive in ACT. It's about feeling your emotions and giving them space...among other things. It's honestly way better than traditional CBT (what most therapists practice, which is kinda garbage imo). Feel free to PM me with questions about it, I can explain it more and send you resources and book recommendations and such (I cannot provide emotional support though, only information, I really wanna emphasize that).

Dont worry, I have long since foregone finding a consistent source of emotional support online. =P

The biggest thing that prevents me from going this route is that I just wont get better. I have terrible follow through, discipline, and when I get sad enough nothing matters.

For instance, in one of my productive phases, my best friend was helping me complete household chores through what we called "maid texts". They were my chores and he wasnt around, but we pretended I was doing all my chores for him so I would have a reason to do them. It worked for awhile, but then as all my attempts go, I eventually ended up just in a bad place emotionally and couldn't bring myself to do anything at all and the practice died out.

I do some variation of the above often. Maybe ill start cooking and going to the store and doing dishes more often, but then if I get upset I lose my momentum and once I fail at all I can't get back up. Or maybe ill start actually cleaning all the stuff I'm supposed to clean in my apartment and make sure I'm eating at the proper times; but once again if I get upset at all then that practice quits. I can't even start doing the things that may be considered "fun". Everything is work to me at this point and I dont have a lot of reasons to do anything. I dont really have a reason to live either. My username is pretty accurate.

I can't do things alone. I have one friend who's an ex boyfriend (its complicated) and he will just do everything I need because "he wants to" (or so he says). I have limited the amount we see each other, but this has kind of made it so that nothing gets done until the days he does visit. Even if I banned him forever, it would take me a long time to do anything myself. I just can't unless I wake up super motivated, but if I'm by myself that motivation dissipates. And when I do do stuff by myself, its never correctly and always at the bare minimum…

I have considered some options, but at the end of the day I know the problem is just me and that I wont do anything. I think maybe I just dont really want to change or feel better. I'm not super motivated to change…which is what is confusing all the professionals I'm seeing. I guess I shouldnt be in therapy if I'm not wanting or able to do anything. Maybe I should take another commenters advice and just quit… haha I know you said no emotional support so dont feel pressured. I'm just like this.