The true face of pro-life/anti-choice: totalitarianism maskerading as care

[Jean Améry]

I would like to direct your attention to this video:




The psychiatrist/talking head/blond botox abusing bimbo at 7:28: "Don't respect their privacy".

Privacy is a fundamental right which is protected by law. She also advocated verbal agression and alerted the public to the existence of 'mobile units that come to your house'. Force 'help' on the suicidal....

This is 1984: if you do not think like everyone else you need to be identified and hunted down. Those around you have a moral duty (which might even become a legal duty in some cases) to 'alert' your therapist who can have you locked up and that's not only perfectly ok but will also make them heroes in the eyes of these people which is absurd. People who do not want 'help' and meddling in their business should be left alone as long as they don't break any laws.

Imagine phoning someone's doctor and telling them you think they overeat and should be forced to stop eating so much sugar and red meat.... That conversation would be very short methinks.

"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." (George Orwell)

That is what they do: they claim to love privacy and freedom yet it's perfectly ok to deny the suicidal the very same freedom and privacy even if they don't break any law. That is doublethink.

Orwell also wrote this which describes psychiatry's mission perfectly:

"Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing."

She really couldn't repeat 'anxiety and depression' enough, could she? Mental illness = suicide = denial of rights with no consequences whatsoever. The pro-life/anti-choice creed.

 

[Quarky00]

Very sharp response/writing . Thanks for saying that so clearly .

Never mind privacy, saying you care just for the sake of it -- is abusive behaviour ("This is the moment they need to know people care"). That 'doctor' is basically putting a band aid on a disabled person. :)

 

[AlePizarnik]

Excellently written

 

[TAW122]

@Jean Améry thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts on this.

As for my take on this:
I am absolutely disgusted at the psychiatrist for saying that it's ok to "don't respect their privacy." So my response is ok, how about we not respect non-suicidal people's rights and what not? I'm sure that won't be acceptable. It is incredibly selfish (and hypocritical) for her to claim that we have freedom and we must respect all other rights, but when it comes to someone's rights, we side-step and bypass their rights and "force" help onto the suicidal.

One thing they never consider is what if the suicidal person doesn't want help? Not all suicidal people want help nor are they grateful for forced intervention. It's very barbaric and also a strong reason as to why a lot of people (genuinely suicidal and really want to die) will not open up. In fact, it only drives them further underground and/or they end up in a worse state (medical and hospital bills, stigma, loss of career/job, rights (firearms and what not), and more), then still end up killing themselves. I might not be the only one who sees this this way, but if forced intervention was ever done on me, you can bet money that I will check out at my earliest convenience and chance, regardless of whether other aspects of life is going well. This is because it is a blatant disregard for my rights and also I will not support a society that condones and sanctions the use of involuntary force or treatment against suicidal people, especially those who are only a threat or harm to themselves. I would also have other reasons as well, of course but that would have been the spearhead of all reasons. (I remember stating that when I CTB, there is no singular reason and involuntary commitment or so already gives me two major reasons by default, -- one is violation of my privacy and freedom, and also the worsening of my quality of life (the fallout and consequences that follow it; loss of rights, more financial problems (in the US), stigmas, and other negative consequences).

 

[Jean Améry]

Very sharp response/writing . Thanks for saying that so clearly .

Never mind privacy, saying you care just for the sake of it -- is abusive behaviour ("This is the moment they need to know people care"). That 'doctor' is basically putting a band aid on a disabled person. :)

Thanks. I do think 'care' that is forced upon people is not care but harassment. Imo people should have the right to express their opinion but if the person in question makes it clear he/she is not interested they should either keep that opinion to themselves or limit it to others. Of course this should not lead to any form of prosecution.

Excellently written

Thank you.

@Jean Améry thanks for sharing your opinion and thoughts on this.

As for my take on this:
I am absolutely disgusted at the psychiatrist for saying that it's ok to "don't respect their privacy." So my response is ok, how about we not respect non-suicidal people's rights and what not? I'm sure that won't be acceptable. It is incredibly selfish (and hypocritical) for her to claim that we have freedom and we must respect all other rights, but when it comes to someone's rights, we side-step and bypass their rights and "force" help onto the suicidal.

One thing they never consider is what if the suicidal person doesn't want help? Not all suicidal people want help nor are they grateful for forced intervention. It's very barbaric and also a strong reason as to why a lot of people (genuinely suicidal and really want to die) will not open up. In fact, it only drives them further underground and/or they end up in a worse state (medical and hospital bills, stigma, loss of career/job, rights (firearms and what not), and more), then still end up killing themselves. I might not be the only one who sees this this way, but if forced intervention was ever done on me, you can bet money that I will check out at my earliest convenience and chance, regardless of whether other aspects of life is going well. This is because it is a blatant disregard for my rights and also I will not support a society that condones and sanctions the use of involuntary force or treatment against suicidal people, especially those who are only a threat or harm to themselves. I would also have other reasons as well, of course but that would have been the spearhead of all reasons. (I remember stating that when I CTB, there is no singular reason and involuntary commitment or so already gives me two major reasons by default, -- one is violation of my privacy and freedom, and also the worsening of my quality of life (the fallout and consequences that follow it; loss of rights, more financial problems (in the US), stigmas, and other negative consequences).

That is indeed the issue here: how can it ever be justified to take away fundamental rights from a minority while all should be equal before the law? How can it be legal to lock up the suicidal while attempted suicide is no longer a crime? When there is no danger to others whatsoever?

Throughout history minorities have always been prosecuted on spurious and immoral grounds. That is what is happening now: the suicidal and the mentally ill in general are about the last minority in western countries that can be shamelessly and legally prosecuted and made into victims (incarceration, forced drugging, forced feeding, straightjackets, being tied down to a bed, brainwashing).

What is new is that this is actually done in the name of charity and good will: prosecution is 'help', betrayal is 'care', violence and incarceration is 'treatment'. Again referring to that great book by Orwell: this is classical newspeak.

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength".

"Freedom is slavery" which logically means "slavery is freedom": this is what we're faced with. We are supposedly free citizens yet we apparantly have no right to freedom if we want to use that very freedom to kill ourselves. The state and society owns us and controls our fate, we apparantly do not own ourselves and we ought not to control our fate. In theory we're free, in practice we are slaves. At least when they can catch us. Here lies the rub for the pro-life/anti-choice camp.

To any who actually care about freedom this is downright horrendous and an unacceptable, fascist perversion of the law and justice.

 

[woxihuanni]

I consider pro-lifers subhuman and therefore not worthy of rational discussion. I also consider them as having waived their human rights, since they don't recognise the most fundamental right to put an end to one's own torture.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks. I do think 'care' that is forced upon people is not care but harassment. Imo people should have the right to express their opinion but if the person in question makes it clear he/she is not interested they should either keep that opinion to themselves or limit it to others. Of course this should not lead to any form of prosecution.


Thank you.



That is indeed the issue here: how can it ever be justified to take away fundamental rights from a minority while all should be equal before the law? How can it be legal to lock up the suicidal while attempted suicide is no longer a crime? When there is no danger to others whatsoever?

Throughout history minorities have always been prosecuted on spurious and immoral grounds. That is what is happening now: the suicidal and the mentally ill in general are about the last minority in western countries that can be shamelessly and legally prosecuted and made into victims (incarceration, forced drugging, forced feeding, straightjackets, being tied down to a bed, brainwashing).

What is new is that this is actually done in the name of charity and good will: prosecution is 'help', betrayal is 'care', violence and incarceration is 'treatment'. Again referring to that great book by Orwell: this is classical newspeak.

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength".

"Freedom is slavery" which logically means "slavery is freedom": this is what we're faced with. We are supposedly free citizens yet we apparantly have no right to freedom if we want to use that very freedom to kill ourselves. The state and society owns us and controls our fate, we apparantly do not own ourselves and we ought not to control our fate. In theory we're free, in practice we are slaves. At least when they can catch us. Here lies the rub for the pro-life/anti-choice camp.

To any who actually care about freedom this is downright horrendous and an unacceptable, fascist perversion of the law and justice.

I think is one of the other (major) reason for me to CTB from my list of major reasons to CTB. Also, this world due to the current state it's in (and will likely get worse over time, not just in the US, but in other areas around the world too). I would rather not be around to experience how "bad" things will get before they even get better (if they would even improve that is).

I consider pro-lifers subhuman and therefore not worthy of rational discussion. I also consider them as having waived their human rights, since they don't recognise the most fundamental right to put an end to one's own torture.

I feel the same or similar sentiments as well. In fact, I once had a thread talking about ways to get back at pro-lifers almost a year ago, if you are interested in reading it.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

I wonder when they will use our IP addresses to track us down and lock us up for posting on SS.

Yes, Orwell's 1984 is here. All the surveillance, the propaganda machine of the media, the narcissist "reality" television star in the White House, the thought police/Greek chorus mentality of social media, the digitization of money, the judicial and law enforcement nature of mental health, the mounting evidence we live in a simulation/matrix. I am terrified that death is not an escape, only an exit from one torture simulation into another.

 

[SinisterKid]

Typical journalism, typical rhetoric from someone who thinks they know but sadly does not.

She fought a battle and lost.

That statement is the only one that matters. It has the context of the whole issue. All the therapy, all the medication, all the concern of friends and family, wealth, stability and she still lost the battle. So instead of saying, fuck the privacy of suicidal people or depressed people, why not try and discover why she lost her battle? In spite of all the aforementioned, it was not enough.

So sorry, but your pseudo science and medication and concerns could not save her, what does that tell you?

It tells me the current systems dont work in many instances so we need some new systems which dont disregard the needs of the actual sufferer to placate the needs of the none afflicted.

 

[Defenestrator]

Typical emotional knee jerk reaction, they're not thinking of the WHY people would want to end their lives. No, that doesn't matter apparently.

It's like sticking a bandaid over an arterial bleed and wondering why it's still gushing blood.

 

[spanishguy22]

Typical journalism, typical rhetoric from someone who thinks they know but sadly does not.

She fought a battle and lost.

That statement is the only one that matters. It has the context of the whole issue. All the therapy, all the medication, all the concern of friends and family, wealth, stability and she still lost the battle. So instead of saying, fuck the privacy of suicidal people or depressed people, why not try and discover why she lost her battle? In spite of all the aforementioned, it was not enough.

So sorry, but your pseudo science and medication and concerns could not save her, what does that tell you?

It tells me the current systems dont work in many instances so we need some new systems which dont disregard the needs of the actual sufferer to placate the needs of the none afflicted.

You're right. It's simple. Brain diseases are not curable. All the "t h e r a p y!!" "medication" used as "treatment" is nothing but a way to make tremendous amounts of money from ignorant people suffering from these diseases. Its fucking ridiculous how you need to pay around 50 dollars or euros here in Europe for one session consisting of a completely neurotypical guy successful in life telling you random shit hes read in a book that they think will help you.
It helps sometimes but never cures, and sometimes pushes the person to the edge.
What a decent society would do is legalize euthanasia for severe mental illness. But of course, we were born in the worst era for mental illness. If you fail your attemp, you may live your whole life as a miserable vegetative person. At least before all this shit if someone hanged themselves centuries ago there was nothing to keep the person alive.
So I guess dont half ass your attempts people.

 

[TAW122]

I wonder when they will use our IP addresses to track us down and lock is up for posting on SS.

This is one of my fears as well.

So sorry, but your pseudo science and medication and concerns could not save her, what does that tell you?

It tells me the current systems dont work in many instances so we need some new systems which dont disregard the needs of the actual sufferer to placate the needs of the none afflicted.

Well said, and agreed. This is what society fails to realize and would not even admit.

Typical emotional knee jerk reaction, they're not thinking of the WHY people would want to end their lives. No, that doesn't matter apparently.

It's like sticking a bandaid over an arterial bleed and wondering why it's still gushing blood.

Yes, and until people address the "why" and take measures to solve those problems, then things will NOT get better for the suicidal.

You're right. It's simple. Brain diseases are not curable. All the "t h e r a p y!!" "medication" used as "treatment" is nothing but a way to make tremendous amounts of money from ignorant people suffering from these diseases. Its fucking ridiculous how you need to pay around 50 dollars or euros here in Europe for one session consisting of a completely neurotypical guy successful in life telling you random shit hes read in a book that they think will help you.
It helps sometimes but never cures, and sometimes pushes the person to the edge.
What a decent society would do is legalize euthanasia for severe mental illness. But of course, we were born in the worst era for mental illness. If you fail your attemp, you may live your whole life as a miserable vegetative person. At least before all this shit if someone hanged themselves centuries ago there was nothing to keep the person alive.
So I guess dont half ass your attempts people.

Wow, I did not know that you still have to pay money to seek therapy in Europe (I was under the impression that most countries offer healthcare for free for their citizens, so maybe I'm wrong..). And yes in the US people still have to pay, but MUCH, MUCH, more... like hundreds or at least over 60-70 USD on a sliding scale or something. I agree that a decent society should offer voluntary euthanasia for those who are suffering immensely. As for the last part, yes, this is important for ALL of us because an even worse situation is where one fails the attempt, ends up with permanent damage and then all the fallout on top of everything.

 

[ladolcemorte]

[QUOTE="SinisterKid, post: 562402, member: 8233"
So sorry, but your pseudo science and medication and concerns could not save her, what does that tell you?

It tells me the current systems dont work in many instances so we need some new systems which dont disregard the needs of the actual sufferer to placate the needs of the none afflicted.
[/QUOTE]

That is the issue I am facing. I have consulted many professionals over many years, and was hospitalized for 4 months last year.

The problem is that the "help" is not helping. My psychiatrist even wrote in a letter that he is trying one more medication change, but that I have already tried almost all of the medications that treat my condition and they have not helped. (I am grateful to this Dr for being honest rather than filled with false hope)

My psychologist thinks it is my fault. That I am not doing a good enough job "using the skills". As far as I am aware, Mental Ilness is the only sector of medicine in which it is acceptable to blame the patient when treatment fails. No one says a cancer patient just didn't fully "commit" to the chemo. If chemo fails, the Dr looks at alternate treatments. Yet if talk therapy fails time and time again, it is somehow perfectly acceptable for Drs to keep prescribing it with the caveat that the patient needs to try harder next time. This suits the profession just fine because if you place personal blame on the patient you never have to question whether there are flaws in the health care system, or in the science itself, or even in the competence of individual professionals.

The psychiatrist in this video rightly acknowledged that Kate Spade lost the battle. But she seems to place blame at the feet of the family. Saying that Kate did not need to lose the battle, and that there likely were signs that the family missed. Not once did she suggest that the Drs providing Kate's treatment missed something. Nope, instead the problem is that her family didn't phone the health care professionals...Really??? They are the professionals whose very job was to prevent this, but somehow they don't have to come out and make a public statement about the lack of warning signs.

It is pure hypocrisy to urge concerned friends and family to "alert the professionals" without ever questioning the quality of care provided by those professionals.

 

[TAW122]

Mental Ilness is the only sector of medicine in which it is acceptable to blame the patient when treatment fails. No one says a cancer patient just didn't fully "commit" to the chemo. If chemo fails, the Dr looks at alternate treatments. Yet if talk therapy fails time and time again, it is somehow perfectly acceptable for Drs to keep prescribing it with the caveat that the patient needs to try harder next time. This suits the profession just fine because if you place personal blame on the patient you never have to question whether there are flaws in the health care system, or in the science itself, or even in the competence of individual professionals.

This is a really good paragraph, really sums up the psychiatric industry and mental healthcare in a nutshell. Furthermore, I'd like to add that lay people (non-doctors) also parrot off this "go see another therapist/professional/psychiatrist/etc." crap, which doesn't do shit for the person who is seeking help. At the end of the day, the ultimate answer is that "sometimes, there is NO solution" and that CTB would be a way out, to avoid further suffering.