Discussion The stupidest thing we do as humans, is trying to rationalize arguments for continuing to exist and reproduce.

[MindOverMenace]

I mean really, think about all the stupid shit our minds come up with, to rationalize our struggle against non-existence.

Gods, Beauty, Love, Happiness, Survival Instincts, and all that other stupid shit.

These are things our mind have evolved to feel to cope with the self-evident meaninglessness of LIFE and existence as a whole.

If we were able to think using PURELY logic as humans, we would understand that it's all pointless.

It's so absurd to think that most people genuinely have the ability to rationalize continuing to live in even the most DIRE of situations.
What do you guys think about this? I really love talking about this kind of think but it's super unpopular for obvious reasons.

 

[qualityOV3Rquantity]

I sort of agree. I stumbled across antinatalism online when I was a teenager and found myself agreeing with it. I got better mentally and stopped believing in it, but now I'm on the verge of death again and think more and more about how I wish my parents hadn't brought me into this world to suffer like this.

Once you find antinatalism and agree with it, you'll find that you can never really argue against it. You might no longer believe in it someday, but you can't disprove it.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

They have everyone believing all of this garbage matters and that no one is ever going to die

The truth is nothing matters except avoiding extreme pain and everyone is going to die anyway

It's all meaningless. what that we could do today will matter in 150 years? in 10,000 years? in a trillion years? nothing

After Death is non-existence forever. Non-existence forever means never any pain, never any suffering, never any problems . While life / existence means problems , pain suffering with the chance always there of constant unbearable pain. yet they have everyone fearing non-existence . to me non-existence forever is the ultimate bliss

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

I wish nihilism was more mainstream...

 

[MindOverMenace]

I wish nihilism was more mainstream...

Yeah it's sorta a Catch22 though, if it caught on, people would commit suicide in large numbers, but because of evolution, if there are any people left who don't believe in nihilism, they out reproduce those who don't, and the cycle goes on until they are wiped out by an outside force maybe. In fact this is probably already the case, and that's why almost everyone wants to live even in the face of cold logic.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Yeah it's sorta a Catch22 though, if it caught on, people would commit suicide in large numbers, but because of evolution, if there are any people left who don't believe in nihilism, they out reproduce those who don't, and the cycle goes on until they are wiped out by an outside force maybe. In fact this is probably already the case, and that's why almost everyone wants to live even in the face of cold logic.

I heard at least Gen-z in the west is not wanting children. South Korea will dissapear in a few decades because they are not having kids. so that proves that it's not an instinct like they constantly tell us for us to want children. no an instinct is the constant thirst for water and urge to breathe oxygen and hunger for food . i never wanted to have children as a male chimpanzee . it's one of the most abonimable things to me for me to have my own children wtaf? some instinct. food no i have to have food though even though i logically want to avoid that crap too it's disgusting when you think about it eating dead animals and digesting them shitting trillions of bacteria in your intestines, the monstrous organs, the cells etc . imo the human body is also abominable with a brain that can suffer constant unbearable pain.

these links Totally proves wanting children is not an instinct not evolutoinary etc like i always believed but taught programed in by culture and society. many other things are also taught not programmed by evolution. yeah i know evolution is true but a lot of things are taught . people are wising up at least about having children in some countries:

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

Yeah it's sorta a Catch22 though, if it caught on, people would commit suicide in large numbers, but because of evolution, if there are any people left who don't believe in nihilism, they out reproduce those who don't, and the cycle goes on until they are wiped out by an outside force maybe. In fact this is probably already the case, and that's why almost everyone wants to live even in the face of cold logic.

Yes but suicide isn't nihilism's only solution to the problem of meaning. So not every nihilist will ctb. The goal honestly is just to make this stupid society stop stigmatizing suicide and instead view it as a normal part of life.

 

[MindOverMenace]

Yes but suicide isn't nihilism's only solution to the problem of meaning. So not every nihilist will ctb. The goal honestly is just to make this stupid society stop stigmatizing suicide and instead view it as a normal part of life.

OH I get what you mean! I'm more a pessimistic nihilist myself, given all the bad experiences I've had.

Yes but suicide isn't nihilism's only solution to the problem of meaning. So not every nihilist will ctb. The goal honestly is just to make this stupid society stop stigmatizing suicide and instead view it as a normal part of life.

Wow, that really changes my view of what nihilism can do to prevent human suffering.

 

[divinemistress36]

I sort of agree. I stumbled across antinatalism online when I was a teenager and found myself agreeing with it. I got better mentally and stopped believing in it, but now I'm on the verge of death again and think more and more about how I wish my parents hadn't brought me into this world to suffer like this.

Once you find antinatalism and agree with it, you'll find that you can never really argue against it. You might no longer believe in it someday, but you can't disprove it.

I'm not quite an Antinatalist but a lot of what they say is true

 

[MindOverMenace]

I heard at least Gen-z in the west is not wanting children. South Korea will dissapear in a few decades because they are not having kids. so that proves that it's not an instinct like they constantly tell us for us to want children. no an instinct is the constant thirst for water and urge to breathe oxygen and hunger for food . i never wanted to have children as a male chimpanzee . it's one of the most abonimable things to me for me to have my own children wtaf? some instinct. food no i have to have food though even though i logically want to avoid that crap too it's disgusting when you think about it eating dead animals and digesting them shitting trillions of bacteria in your intestines, the monstrous organs, the cells etc . imo the human body is also abominable with a brain that can suffer constant unbearable pain.

these links Totally proves wanting children is not an instinct not evolutoinary etc like i always believed but taught programed in by culture and society. many other things are also taught not programmed by evolution. yeah i know evolution is true but a lot of things are taught . people are wising up at least about having children in some countries:

I don't know I think there is definitely a major biological components at play surrounding reproduction in literally every living being. That why we get so horny even when we don't really want babies. Because sex is what makes babies.

I don't know I think there is definitely a major biological components at play surrounding reproduction in literally every living being. That why we get so horny even when we don't really want babies. Because sex is what makes babies.

It's like the urge to breathe for a lot of people, its automatic and hard to resist.

 

[chester]

Gods, Beauty, Love, Happiness, Survival Instincts, and all that other stupid shit.

These are things our mind have evolved to feel to cope with the self-evident meaninglessness of LIFE and existence as a whole.

If we were able to think using PURELY logic as humans, we would understand that it's all pointless.

I'd say there are two angles to consider here, namely: wanting to live when you enjoy life, even though it's pointless and wanting to live when life becomes torture.

The former to me is like playing a video game. There's no objective purpose in it. There's no prize to win. Yet you put in time and effort to solve puzzles, defeat enemies and overcome difficulties. And for what? You don't do it to gain anything, because there's nothing to gain, quite the opposite, very often good games are expensive. Similarly with life. As long as it brings you satisfaction and some sort of internal sense of purpose, who cares if it objectively has a point? I knew my life was objectively meaningless, but I still wanted to live it, because there were good things happening. Things I wanted to experience for the sake of the experience itself. To me it was a good enough reason.

Now when life becomes torture, some people decide to carry on because they believe there's a way back to a better life, which brings them hope. Or maybe they believe that even though they suffer, they can still do something meaningful, which brings them satisfaction.
Most people though don't think about it. They just don't consider CTB one of the options to choose from. Because that's what "crazy" people do. That's the social programming of the society can be attributed to evolution, because all societies which didn't protect life at all costs would go extinct for obvious reasons. The most disgusting thing when you want to CTB is that nobody wants to even check if you have a valid reason, because no reason is valid. You're sick and need to be treated until you say "I no longer want to die". When I saw some situations in movies or read about them in books, I thought to myself "I'm so lucky it didn't happen to me, because if it did I would kill myself". Well, here I am now. I consider my reason to be good enough to want to die and I refuse to call myself sick. Anyone who would want to live in my situation is sick.

 

[MindOverMenace]

Most people though don't think about it. They just don't consider CTB one of the options to choose from. Because that's what "crazy" people do. That's the social programming of the society can be attributed to evolution, because all societies which didn't protect life at all costs would go extinct for obvious reasons. The most disgusting thing when you want to CTB is that nobody wants to even check if you have a valid reason, because no reason is valid. You're sick and need to be treated until you say "I no longer want to die". When I saw some situations in movies or read about them in books, I thought to myself "I'm so lucky it didn't happen to me, because if it did I would kill myself". Well, here I am now. I consider my reason to be good enough to want to die and I refuse to call myself sick. Anyone who would want to live in my situation is sick.

That is the most insidious thing about life, if it's better at reproduction it doesn't need to be smart, logic, moral, it only needs to be successful in its reproduction. It's just overwhelmingly disgusting to me, how could any of this be? It would be better if it all were just wiped clean from reality. As matter of fact, that reality ceases to exist all together, so that life could never rise up again.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I've found that it's so ingrained in a lot of people that the reverse is in fact true. I worked somewhere where the majority of people had children. When they found out that I didn't, they asked questions as to why not. I'm not around people that much and 'normies' even less, so it felt really weird. Like- why am I even having to defend this point of view? Why would I want to bring children into this?!! But then, you realise you can't really say that so, I went with- I never found a partner (also true.)

I'd say the majority of people don't even bother consciously defending or supporting their existence. It's just something they accept or think is a positive thing. Maybe because we do have a whole history of creating self importance though- true. Via things like religion.

Really though, I feel like living and reproducing is mostly seen as the status quo. I'm not sure that many do even bother to rationalise it because they feel like they have the correct answer. I think it's the antinatilist and suicidal of us that have to draw on rational arguments to try and defend our beliefs and- it still doesn't work because in their eyes, we're most likely mentally ill and wrong.

 

[MindOverMenace]

I've found that it's so ingrained in a lot of people that the reverse is in fact true. I worked somewhere where the majority of people had children. When they found out that I didn't, they asked questions as to why not. I'm not around people that much and 'normies' even less, so it felt really weird. Like- why am I even having to defend this point of view? Why would I want to bring children into this?!! But then, you realise you can't really say that so, I went with- I never found a partner (also true.)

I'd say the majority of people don't even bother consciously defending or supporting their existence. It's just something they accept or think is a positive thing. Maybe because we do have a whole history of creating self importance though- true. Via things like religion.

Really though, I feel like living and reproducing is mostly seen as the status quo. I'm not sure that many do even bother to rationalise it because they feel like they have the correct answer. I think it's the antinatilist and suicidal of us that have to draw on rational arguments to try and defend our beliefs and- it still doesn't work because in their eyes, we're most likely mentally ill and wrong.

For me I try to think about all of existence in its entirety (the complete universe as we know it), then contrast it with my personal experiential observation about this universe.

For example I observed the universe is HIGHLY against the mere EXISTENCE of life, as we know it. Think about it, we would die immediately in literally 99.999% of the known universe, if we were just placed somewhere randomly.

It is so, so, so, so very likely that all lifeforms will be killed off completely in this universe eventually.

So what is the point is suffering at all, when you will just cease to exist anyways. It's completely chaotic and absurd, at it's base life is a futile struggle against the inevitable. There is no real logic in it all. Life is like the most unstable way that the universe attempts to order itself.

 

[TAW122]

I agree with this as an antinatalist and pro-choicer myself. I would also add that human beings are terrified of death (our own self preservation instincts, the SI, through evolution and nature over the course of millions perhaps billions of years), and would do anything and just about everything to avoid or reduce the risk of such happening.

 

[TapeMachine]

don't know I think there is definitely a major biological components at play surrounding reproduction in literally every living being. That why we get so horny even when we don't really want babies. Because sex is what makes babies.

Yep. Reproduction is one of the most vital components to the continuation of life. And the meaning of life (when stripped down to its most rudimentary form) is survival/continuity of life itself.

Watch any nature documentary. What are the fundamental themes throughout, despite the animal? Territory, mating/reproduction, (and I had to edit to add) and fueling the body with calories and hydration. At all costs too.

Humans are animals, though many of us seem to dismiss that fact at times. If stripped of our emotional inclinations, we operate like any other species of animal on Earth.

So I would argue that reproduction is indeed a biological instinct for the continuation of life; some of us simply choose to rebel against nature, because we do not see life as some precious thing that we must defend at all costs.
Furthermore, I'm not so egotistical that I think my "legacy" (genetics/dna) needs to survive for generations to come. The world will get on just fine without any of that. :)