The struggle for creative folks

[ManWithNoName]

Be it a writer, musician, visual artist, video artist, poet - it seems that creative people tend to be at a disadvantage in life. Thoughts?

 

[CFLoser]

Most people who care to express things in ways like that are people who struggle with expressing things.
Successful people don't care, why would they? They communicate perfectly.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Most people who care to express things in ways like that are people who struggle with expressing things.
Successful people don't care, why would they? They communicate perfectly.

Successful folks are also more practical and hence more economically viable. The real stress for the creative is when the rent has to be paid and nothing he / she creates can be traded for currency topay said rent.

The running joke is that when one makes / creates something that society has no use for, then one becomes, by definition, an "artist". And no I'm not bashing artists - I'm a painter and photographer myself and have experienced this first hand.

 

[restingspot]

The real stress for the creative is when the rent has to be paid and nothing he / she creates can be traded for currency topay said rent.

This is why I never majored in what I like to do (art and design, voice acting), because it doesn't put food on the table as readily as what I'm going for now (medical work). It's commission-based and eventually the well runs dry, but patients? You never run out of patients. Sure your workplace might close, but there's nursing homes on every block.

 

[Pistolero114]

I've been a musician for a little over fifty years. I have written songs about society and it's flaws; and it's gifts. I stopped bringing out my instruments twenty years ago. Why? I am so glad you asked; let me regale you with a simple story from a singer of songs. Simple; for some reason people like to think you're a jukebox of sorts and should play what they want you to on command. And when you've played it they'll say it was ok but not as good as the original artist. Well; that would be because I'm sitting at a family gathering and not in a frikkin million dollar studio at my disposal.

The purpose of art of ANY sort is the expression of the human condition and their perspective on life and it's issues. Because we can play music the 90 pointer's as I like to call them cannot POSSIBLY understand what it is you seek to express.

An old 70's song went like this; "music is a universal language and Love is it's key".

We're a funny lot I suppose but because of some distortion of nature we look at; listen and create sounds pleasing to the human ear. I have a dozen songs that the rest of humanity will never hear as I have instructed my sister to bury them with me.

I plan to show them to Jimi Hendrix and see what he thinks. Janis too. Because if there's a rock and roll heaven; u out know they got one hell of a band. Off my soapbox. If you followed this fat old sailor this far you are one of the choose ones for your patience and respect I'm allowing me to express my opinion.

 

[cryptic_cynic]

Yes, those of us who are creative are typically at a disadvantage, because the current dominant economic system tends to only value things that can be commodified and sold at a profit to the masses.

Beyond that, artists tend to be more empathetic and sensitive people, and thus are ill-equipped for the capitalist system which rewards ruthless competitiveness, selfishness, and sociopathic disregard for the needs and emotions of others.

 

[justanotherday]

Be it a writer, musician, visual artist, video artist, poet - it seems that creative people tend to be at a disadvantage in life. Thoughts?

Well, as a creative myself, I couldn't agree more.

 

[ManWithNoName]

This is why I never majored in what I like to do (art and design, voice acting), because it doesn't put food on the table as readily as what I'm going for now (medical work). It's commission-based and eventually the well runs dry, but patients? You never run out of patients. Sure your workplace might close, but there's nursing homes on every block.

Good point. Plus there is no need to go to art school when there are tons of youtube tutorials on drawing, painting, photography, photoshop to name just a few.

I've been a musician for a little over fifty years. I have written songs about society and it's flaws; and it's gifts. I stopped bringing out my instruments twenty years ago. Why? I am so glad you asked; let me regale you with a simple story from a singer of songs. Simple; for some reason people like to think you're a jukebox of sorts and should play what they want you to on command. And when you've played it they'll say it was ok but not as good as the original artist. Well; that would be because I'm sitting at a family gathering and not in a frikkin million dollar studio at my disposal.

The purpose of art of ANY sort is the expression of the human condition and their perspective on life and it's issues. Because we can play music the 90 pointer's as I like to call them cannot POSSIBLY understand what it is you seek to express.

An old 70's song went like this; "music is a universal language and Love is it's key".

We're a funny lot I suppose but because of some distortion of nature we look at; listen and create sounds pleasing to the human ear. I have a dozen songs that the rest of humanity will never hear I have instructed my sister to bury them with me.

I plan to show them to Jimi Hendrix and see what he thinks. Janis too. Because if there's a rock and roll heaven; u out know they got one hell of a band. Off my soapbox. If you followed this fat old sailor this far you are one of the choose ones for your patience and respect I'm allowing me to express my opinion.

You are welcome - and thank you for sharing.

 

[ReverendGreen]

If you want to become a skilled or successful architect/bodybuilder/doctor/whatever you just have to be able to consume knowledge and practice constantly. But there's no cut and dry way to become a great artist. The worth of art is insanely subjective and the only way artists can make a living or gain positive feedback is by being lucky and finding an audience.
Which makes creating art with 'value' extremely difficult.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Yes, those of us who are creative are typically at a disadvantage, because the current dominant economic system tends to only value things that can be commodified and sold at a profit to the masses.

Beyond that, artists tend to be more empathetic and sensitive people, and thus are ill-equipped for the capitalist system which rewards ruthless competitiveness, selfishness, and sociopathic disregard for the needs and emotions of others.

Both Capitalist and Socialist systems also punish artists as well for not expression the properly political polarized art.

 

[cryptic_cynic]

Both Capitalist and Socialist systems also punish artists as well for not expression the properly political polarized art.

The state is the greatest enemy of free expression. Always has been; always will be.

 

[Tom9999]

The creative people who are at most disadvantage are the ones who refuse to accept how the world works.

It works using money.

The best thing a talented creative who wants to make art their life can do is to GET RICH FIRST DAMMIT. Once you are financially independent, you can make art (or anything else you wish) your life.

Until then, your future happiness and fulfillment rests almost entirely on luck and chance. And the odds are stacked heavily against you.

The whole struggling artist ideal, which holds such excitement and promise at 20 when you are surrounded by youthful optimists just like yourself, rots and supporates with bitter regret at 40 when they all long ago switched to career, marriage, family, and wealth, while you are still waiting tables or making sandwiches.

Make it so you might fail at art, but not at life, because if you fail at both it is an unspeakable horror.

 

[Orin]

Maybe because the arts are like icing on the cake; meaning they aren't basic needs in life such as food, shelter, clothing, healthcare, protection from harm, etc.

 

[ManWithNoName]

The creative people who are at most disadvantage are the ones who refuse to accept how the world works.

It works using money.

The best thing a talented creative who wants to make art their life can do is to GET RICH FIRST DAMMIT. Once you are financially independent, you can make art (or anything else you wish) your life.

Until then, your future happiness and fulfillment rests almost entirely on luck and chance. And the odds are stacked heavily against you.

The whole struggling artist ideal, which holds such excitement and promise at 20 when you are surrounded by youthful optimists just like yourself, rots and supporates with bitter regret at 40 when they all long ago switched to career, marriage, family, and wealth, while you are still waiting tables or making sandwiches.

Make it so you might fail at art, but not at life, because if you fail at both, it is an unspeakable horror.

If you don't mind Tom, to address a few of your points:

The get rich first is a VERY tall order in this day and age of the slave-wage economy. Become financially independent first? We'd all love to do this, but somehow something gets lost in the translation from you stating this here in the forum to the real world...

Marriage and family you say? Dude, all my friends I went to high school with are now divorced (I'm in my 50's) and these guys are all good men - hard working good family men. And in all fairness the women they married were good women too - all (both the men and women) with the sincere intentions of making it work...yet they are all divorced - and their breakups were horrible - each of my friends report the same,thing: that the end of their marriage was a very high cost both financially and emotionally. As much as I'm having a difficult time, I have had a few friends tell me they would like to trade places with me. It's weird to hear them say this.

I do agree with you that the romanticism of the struggling artist at 20 turns to crap after a while. I've managed to keep that romanticism alive longer than most because, one could argue, I've kept my mind in my 20's all this time - which eventually becomes a liability as time goes on.

You say make it so you fail at art, but not at life, because failing at both is an unspeakable horror. Well, I do see your point, but today the system is set up to be sure the vast majority fail at life. Art was and is the only thing for me. As for me personally, I knew early on that I was not husband / father material, pure and simple. My relationships with women though very fulfilling and fun, were also fleeting at the same time.

I recall back when I was 22 and relocating to a new studio, that this art path I chose for my life was going to be difficult, and was prepared to deal with any of the consequences for this decision.

 

[Temporarilyabsurd]

Prophet , Seer , Minstrel , Fool , always a rough ride .

Priest , Bureaucrat , Doctor , Professional ... passport to legitimacy .

The 'body of work' idea really pisses me off ( having never made one and destroyed the rest .)

Also ... at sixteen I encountered the white rabbits in Watership Down ... and it polluted my
love of art . Damn Bunnies .

 

[JulienSorel]

Be it a writer, musician, visual artist, video artist, poet - it seems that creative people tend to be at a disadvantage in life. Thoughts?

I would say it depends on the inequality of wealth distribution, and that countries with greater wealth inequality are the worst for artists.

In fact, how sophisticated a society is in culture and art is directly correlated with the equality of wealth distribution.

 

[Final Escape]

Creatives can make terrible employees, probably why governments discourage the breeding of creative types through the education system.

 

[Soul]

Is every artist a special kind of person? Or is every person a special kind of artist?

I vote for the latter with both hands and feet. I've been living with (frequently supporting, occasionally marrying) musicians for my entire adult life because I'm deeply moved by what they do. Some are commercially successful, some aren't; it doesn't matter. Moving people deeply is what artists do. They need people who are ready to be moved. Ready to put aside their daily bread and listen to the music, and hear it. That's a great gift as well.

 

[Pistolero114]

Creatives can make terrible employees, probably why governments discourage the breeding of creative types through the education system.

Absolutely. Government(s) do not want anything beyond a 105 point IQ. Because you don't want anyone to think for themselves. It is in my humble opinion that we as a society; a nation and as the human race (save a few who can) lost the ability to think critically. The establishment as we called it in my day wants you to believe what they tell you to believe. Personally all I feel I can do is watch from the sidelines and hope and pray for the best for my granddaughters. Those young women and their momma's are my entire world. And I am terrified of what the world does to women and little girls. Terrified.

Thanks for letting me post here; I'm off my soapbox now guys; thanks for following me all the way to the end of my rant.

 

[Final Escape]

Yea it has become more dangerous for women since the gov encouragement to be single mothers and not marry early enough. The safest place for women and children is marriage with the biological father as long as it's not an abusive situation obviously. As women are staying single longer we become damaged through repeated couplings and sex with different men over time. Once the push of birth control and legal abortion it actually gave women less power because it ruined the incentive to marry when we are at our most attractive and most partner options.

Despite women getting jobs, few are in high paying careers, many of us are poorer now because often women take lower paying jobs and tend to not be able to work as much as a guy can, we are ending up single and it becomes harder for women to mate down bc we are wired mate up. Men are wired to mate down. So the gender relations have been really screwed up since they pushed feminism on everybody. The dating and marriage market just gets worse for each generation. Oh and I'm sure abortion has taken out many future potential mates for men and women. White people are goin extinct due to feminism, abortion, most birth control fails other than the iud or the implant in which case many women freak out and abort bc they weren't married and trying to avoid single motherhood. Or because they were brainwashed to pursue a career when we should be having kids.

I didnt cover how this effects men but feminism has been devastating to men as well. Increased suicide, they get divorce raped through the state. The top 20% of attractive men love feminism bc they get all the sex with a variety of women but the rest of the guys below them aren't getting sex which causes those guys to drop out of society and not be productive. What's the point? If there's little incentive and they won't get a lady or have kids.

 

[seekingoblivion]

I've been a musician for a little over fifty years. I have written songs about society and it's flaws; and it's gifts. I stopped bringing out my instruments twenty years ago. Why? I am so glad you asked; let me regale you with a simple story from a singer of songs. Simple; for some reason people like to think you're a jukebox of sorts and should play what they want you to on command. And when you've played it they'll say it was ok but not as good as the original artist. Well; that would be because I'm sitting at a family gathering and not in a frikkin million dollar studio at my disposal.

The purpose of art of ANY sort is the expression of the human condition and their perspective on life and it's issues. Because we can play music the 90 pointer's as I like to call them cannot POSSIBLY understand what it is you seek to express.

An old 70's song went like this; "music is a universal language and Love is it's key".

We're a funny lot I suppose but because of some distortion of nature we look at; listen and create sounds pleasing to the human ear. I have a dozen songs that the rest of humanity will never hear as I have instructed my sister to bury them with me.

I plan to show them to Jimi Hendrix and see what he thinks. Janis too. Because if there's a rock and roll heaven; u out know they got one hell of a band. Off my soapbox. If you followed this fat old sailor this far you are one of the choose ones for your patience and respect I'm allowing me to express my opinion.

Man I hate when they say it's not like the original. I mean if you want it to sound like the original you better get me a whole band to back me up as a starting point. I only ever "get it right" if the song involves a single acoustic guitar. Or at least if the guitar is dominant in the song.