Discussion The right to die

[myaccount1104]

There are a lot of people who are going through rough situations that drive them to want to CTB, like getting a bad score on a test or living in an abusive household. I think most of the people on this forum hold the belief that people have the right to choose to end their lives. However, there are many situations that aren't completely hopeless. Both of the situations I mentioned can be temporary (I don't mean to disregard the fact that living in an abusive household can leave you with a lot of trauma or that the severity of those two things is very different).

People can usually recover from bad grades. I don't want to undermine the suffering of others, but I think CTB over one bad grade is a very temporary and silly reason.

If the person living in an abusive household would hypothetically live a very happy and fulfilling life after moving out, and you knew this fact, would that similarly affect what you think about them killing themself?

Do you think people in temporary situations have the right to choose to die, even if they could hypothetically get better? Would you discourage them from CTB?

I feel like the reasons I've had to CTB have always been kind of temporary, even if they are hard to live with.

 

[SleeplessAndSad]

I don't think one should make that kind of decision out of an impulse. If you look at offical ways to exit, (although they are more targeted at people with physical issues) they, in my knowledge, all require you to wait a few months after declaring that you want to die. So they wanna make sure that it is really a manifested decision and i think thats good.

 

[sweetdrowning]

I don't think the decision should be made on impulse but in my experience, the temporary bad situation always comes back, whether manifested in the same way or completely different. It is a cycle that just continues for some people, and after many many times of that horrible cycle of getting to a better place only for it to be all ripped away, I think a person has the right to determine that the amount of suffering outweighs the good. I don't want to rebuild my life anymore, I've done it too many times, and I am just not strong enough.

 

[U. A.]

Legitimacy of suffering ≠ legitimacy of killing yourself.

Consider the following, in the context of suicide:

Spoiler: equal?

​

 

[Seneca65AD]

Legitimacy of suffering ≠ legitimacy of killing yourself.

What an absolutely brilliant way of posing the ultimate equation. When does life no longer become worth living? But the way U.A. wrote it brings to the forefront the extremly personal nature of the calculation.

 

[FuneralCry]

The right to die is a human right not something for others to decide and to force people to suffer in this torturous, dreadful existence against their wishes is a terrible crime to me, all that pro-lifers do is just cause way more harm and suffering, it's evil to me how they want to do all they can to make existence into a prison where one cannot painlessly escape.

I always suffer so unbearably from how peaceful death is denied for me so finally I can find peace from the terrible, tragic mistake of existence, simply just existing is enough to make me wish for death and I find it so horrific how a human can suffer for decades longer just to face the agony of old age. I just wish humans wouldn't punish others by imposing this dreadful, harmful and unnecessary existence in the first place, all they do is cause so much pain and suffering there was never a need for with no limit as to how much one can suffer, it's just such extreme cruelty to me how humans impose this existence yet want to do all they can to force and prolong the suffering and torture of existing.

 

[SanagiMezamete]

IMO the problem doesn't have to be temporary or permanent, it's specifically about the amount of subjective suffering it causes and whether that's acceptable to the person experiencing it or not. Someone with a chronic condition can expect to suffer for much longer than a short-term problem, but if the pain is unbearable, who am I to force someone to endure that for my own sake?

Besides that opinion, I think people should have the right to die for any reason, regardless of suffering or not. Some people just want to die and it has nothing to do with trauma or life challenges. It comes down to self-determination and bodily autonomy to me.

Also I see you acknowledged this but I think it's worth saying anyways. Living in an abusive environment for long enough will have a lifelong effect on pretty much anybody who experiences it. For some it might not amount to much difference, others it could very well make them suffer unbearably for decades or for life. Everyone handles things differently. Just because the abuse has stopped doesn't mean the suffering has. And what I look at is the suffering, not what's causing it.

Mainstream conversation about suicide often includes this temporary vs permanent problem distinction, but I think it's really missing the point.

Thanks for bringing this up, it was interesting to write about. I hope you feel better soon and your reasons for CTB stop bothering you.

 

[myaccount1104]

IMO the problem doesn't have to be temporary or permanent, it's specifically about the amount of subjective suffering it causes and whether that's acceptable to the person experiencing it or not. Someone with a chronic condition can expect to suffer for much longer than a short-term problem, but if the pain is unbearable, who am I to force someone to endure that for my own sake?

Besides that opinion, I think people should have the right to die for any reason, regardless of suffering or not. Some people just want to die and it has nothing to do with trauma or life challenges. It comes down to self-determination and bodily autonomy to me.

Also I see you acknowledged this but I think it's worth saying anyways. Living in an abusive environment for long enough will have a lifelong effect on pretty much anybody who experiences it. For some it might not amount to much difference, others it could very well make them suffer unbearably for decades or for life. Everyone handles things differently. Just because the abuse has stopped doesn't mean the suffering has. And what I look at is the suffering, not what's causing it.

Mainstream conversation about suicide often includes this temporary vs permanent problem distinction, but I think it's really missing the point.

Thanks for bringing this up, it was interesting to write about. I hope you feel better soon and your reasons for CTB stop bothering you.

I hope my post didn't come off as dismissive towards those suffering from abuse—I've been dealing with abuse from my parents for most of my life so I understand how much it can affect people. thank You for your thoughtful response and kind words :D

 

[AcrobaticSilky]

There are a lot of people who are going through rough situations that drive them to want to CTB, like getting a bad score on a test or living in an abusive household. I think most of the people on this forum hold the belief that people have the right to choose to end their lives. However, there are many situations that aren't completely hopeless. Both of the situations I mentioned can be temporary (I don't mean to disregard the fact that living in an abusive household can leave you with a lot of trauma or that the severity of those two things is very different).

People can usually recover from bad grades. I don't want to undermine the suffering of others, but I think CTB over one bad grade is a very temporary and silly reason.

If the person living in an abusive household would hypothetically live a very happy and fulfilling life after moving out, and you knew this fact, would that similarly affect what you think about them killing themself?

Do you think people in temporary situations have the right to choose to die, even if they could hypothetically get better? Would you discourage them from CTB?

I feel like the reasons I've had to CTB have always been kind of temporary, even if they are hard to live with.

Life itself is the "permanent problem". People these days will only start to sympathize with suicidal ideation if a person is already on death's door with a painful and incurable illness that they've suffered from for who knows how many years. Life itself is the true problem here.
None of us asked to be here. None of us consented to all of the overwhelming suffering involved in the life process, which is really just the death process if you look at it objectively. The way our brains and bodies are designed, our default state is suffering and the feelings we call joy are just momentary fulfillings of a need we have. I personally came to the conclusion that procreation therefore is unethical and a harm done to each sentient being. I don't think anyone needs some reason other than currently being alive to justify an intent to CTB. Honestly, the whole suicide prevention thing is more a tool to preserve the workforce of wage slaves than anything close to genuine concern over suffering.
Still, it can be hard to look at things this way given the narratives and moral values that were likely imparted into us into our formative years. I guess a big factor in me holding these beliefs is not seeing life as an inherent good, therefore not seeing it as a loss when someone reaches their death earlier than expected. Everything alive will die some day and the only thing that should matter is limiting the suffering that happens before that happens. So theoretically, the sooner and more painless the better as it limits the chance for more unnecessary suffering.

 

[SymphonyOfSuffering]

Life itself is the "permanent problem". People these days will only start to sympathize with suicidal ideation if a person is already on death's door with a painful and incurable illness that they've suffered from for who knows how many years. Life itself is the true problem here.
None of us asked to be here. None of us consented to all of the overwhelming suffering involved in the life process, which is really just the death process if you look at it objectively. The way our brains and bodies are designed, our default state is suffering and the feelings we call joy are just momentary fulfillings of a need we have. I personally came to the conclusion that procreation therefore is unethical and a harm done to each sentient being. I don't think anyone needs some reason other than currently being alive to justify an intent to CTB. Honestly, the whole suicide prevention thing is more a tool to preserve the workforce of wage slaves than anything close to genuine concern over suffering.
Still, it can be hard to look at things this way given the narratives and moral values that were likely imparted into us into our formative years. I guess a big factor in me holding these beliefs is not seeing life as an inherent good, therefore not seeing it as a loss when someone reaches their death earlier than expected. Everything alive will die some day and the only thing that should matter is limiting the suffering that happens before that happens. So theoretically, the sooner and more painless the better as it limits the chance for more unnecessary suffering.

Holy shit couldn't have said it better

 

[BlockHammer]

Yeah, i don't think you should CTB om your impulse but om the same time i believe people should had the right to have their own limit of how much suffering they can handle, nobody should be force to face suffering that they dont want to face just because the "vALue oF LiFe"