MachinaArcana

MachinaArcana

Member
Jan 18, 2020
61
I believe that, on the subject of death, this is possible the most sensibe thing that's ever been written, by the Renaissance humanist Francesco Petrarca (1304-1374)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrarch

-------------------


ORINGINAL IN LATIN:
----------------------------------

Nomen mortis infame mortalium fecit infirmitas.

Si quid animi viriumve inesset, nichilo plus terroris

esset in morte quam in ceteris, que per naturam

fiunt. Quid enim magis mori timeas quam nasci,

adolescere, senescere, esurire, sitire, vigilare,

consopiri? Quod ultimum plane simillimum morti est,

atque ideo somnum, alii consanguineum, alii vero

mortis imaginem, dixere. Neve seu poeticus lepos

extimetur, seu philosophicum acumen, ipsa veritas

amici mortem somnum dixit. Et semel facere metuis,

quo quotidie delectaris?

--------------------------------------




ENGLISH:
--------------

It is the weakness of mortals that has made the name

of death notorious. If there were any strength in their

souls, there would be no more terror for them in death

than in anything else that exists in nature. Why are

you more afraid to die than to be born, to grow up, to

become old, to thirst, to remain awake, to fall asleep?

This last is entirely similar to death; therefore some

say that sleep is death's cousin, others its true image.

And it is neither poetic elegance, nor philosophical

artifice, but truth itself that has declared death to be

sleep_ And you are afraid of doing just once that in

which you delight every day?

--------------------------------------------




FRENCH:
--------------

C'est la faiblesse des mortels qui a rendu effroyable

Ie nom meme de la mort. S'il y avait en eux quelque

force d'ame, ils ne trouveralent en la mort pas plus

de sujet de terreur que dans toutes les autres choses

qui sont dans la nature. Pourquoi crains-tu plus de

mourir que de naitre, de croitre, de vieillir, d'avoir

soif, de veiller, de ceder au sommeil? Ce dernier est

en tous points semblable a la mort; c'est pourquoi

les uns Ie disent son parent, d'autres sa veritable

image. Et ce n'est point agrement poetique ou

finesse de philosophe, mais bien la pure verite que

de dire que la mort est un sommeil. Et tu crains de

faire une seule fois ce a quoi chaque jour tu te Iivres

avec delices?


---------------------------




GERMAN:
----------------


Die Schwachheit der Sterblichen ist es, die das Wort

Tod so abscheulich macht. Ware in Ihnen eine starke

Kraft der Seele, hatte der Tod fUr sie keinen griiBeren

Schrecken als aile anderen Dinge, die natürlich sind_

Warum schreckt es dich mehr zu sterben, als geboren

zu werden, zu wachsen, zu altern, durstig zu sein,

zu wachen, dich vom Schlaf Ubermannen zu lassen?

Der letztere gleicht in allem dem Tod; deshalb wird er

von einigen sein Bruder, von anderen sein getreues

Abbild genannt. Und es ist keineswegs poetische

Beschiinigung oder philosophische Spitzfindigkeit

zu sagen, der Tod ist ein Schlaf, vielmehr ist das die

reine Wahrheit. Und da fUrchtest du dich, ein einziges

Mal das zu tun, was dich von jeher ergiitzt?


-------------------------------------------
 
Last edited:
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E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
Far be it from me to argue with good ol' Petrarca, but the answer that comes to mind in regard to his question is quite simple: I don't fear sleep because my experience has taught me that I wake up every morning. Death on the other hand...


Anyway, thank you for posting this excerpt. Not everyday we get to see Latin on this forum.
 
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Finis Autem Spero

Finis Autem Spero

Dec 30, 2019
259
Anyway, thank you for posting this excerpt. Not everyday we get to see Latin on this forum.

Just the days I post ;)

Now that I think about it, seeing death as similar to sleep is quite pervasive even if not entirely conscious. Especially when considering one of the most common sentiments towards the dead is "Rest in peace". A phrase which suggests an awakening to me, as you cannot experience the feeling of being rested until you stop being unconscious. Though maybe that's down to the limited ability of the human mind being able to truly understand the infinite. Perhaps it's another lingering effect of religions suggesting that some eternity of pleasure or punishment awaits. You would think the faithful of those religions, or in fact anyone who believes in any kind of afterlife, would not fear death as it is nothing but a transition from one conscious state to another.

When it comes to the fear of death, I often wonder if this fear is more tied up in the process of dying rather than death itself as dying is often painful and unpleasant.
 
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Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
Just the days I post ;)

Now that I think about it, seeing death as similar to sleep is quite pervasive even if not entirely conscious. Especially when considering one of the most common sentiments towards the dead is "Rest in peace". A phrase which suggests an awakening to me, as you cannot experience the feeling of being rested until you stop being unconscious. Though maybe that's down to the limited ability of the human mind being able to truly understand the infinite. Perhaps it's another lingering effect of religions suggesting that some eternity of pleasure or punishment awaits. You would think the faithful of those religions, or in fact anyone who believes in any kind of afterlife, would not fear death as it is nothing but a transition from one conscious state to another.

When it comes to the fear of death, I often wonder if this fear is more tied up in the process of dying rather than death itself as dying is often painful and unpleasant.


What does "autem" mean?
 
Mort

Mort

No use to know one
Feb 15, 2019
622
I believe that, on the subject of death, this is possible the most sensibe thing that's ever been written, by the Renaissance humanist Francesco Petrarca (1304-1374)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrarch

-------------------


ORINGINAL IN LATIN:
----------------------------------

Nomen mortis infame mortalium fecit infirmitas.

Si quid animi viriumve inesset, nichilo plus terroris

esset in morte quam in ceteris, que per naturam

fiunt. Quid enim magis mori timeas quam nasci,

adolescere, senescere, esurire, sitire, vigilare,

consopiri? Quod ultimum plane simillimum morti est,

atque ideo somnum, alii consanguineum, alii vero

mortis imaginem, dixere. Neve seu poeticus lepos

extimetur, seu philosophicum acumen, ipsa veritas

amici mortem somnum dixit. Et semel facere metuis,

quo quotidie delectaris?

--------------------------------------




ENGLISH:
--------------

It is the weakness of mortals that has made the name

of death notorious. If there were any strength in their

souls, there would be no more terror for them in death

than in anything else that exists in nature. Why are

you more afraid to die than to be born, to grow up, to

become old, to thirst, to remain awake, to fall asleep?

This last is entirely similar to death; therefore some

say that sleep is death's cousin, others its true image.

And it is neither poetic elegance, nor philosophical

artifice, but truth itself that has declared death to be

sleep_ And you are afraid of doing just once that in

which you delight every day?

--------------------------------------------




FRENCH:
--------------

C'est la faiblesse des mortels qui a rendu effroyable

Ie nom meme de la mort. S'il y avait en eux quelque

force d'ame, ils ne trouveralent en la mort pas plus

de sujet de terreur que dans toutes les autres choses

qui sont dans la nature. Pourquoi crains-tu plus de

mourir que de naitre, de croitre, de vieillir, d'avoir

soif, de veiller, de ceder au sommeil? Ce dernier est

en tous points semblable a la mort; c'est pourquoi

les uns Ie disent son parent, d'autres sa veritable

image. Et ce n'est point agrement poetique ou

finesse de philosophe, mais bien la pure verite que

de dire que la mort est un sommeil. Et tu crains de

faire une seule fois ce a quoi chaque jour tu te Iivres

avec delices?


---------------------------




GERMAN:
----------------


Die Schwachheit der Sterblichen ist es, die das Wort

Tod so abscheulich macht. Ware in Ihnen eine starke

Kraft der Seele, hatte der Tod fUr sie keinen griiBeren

Schrecken als aile anderen Dinge, die natürlich sind_

Warum schreckt es dich mehr zu sterben, als geboren

zu werden, zu wachsen, zu altern, durstig zu sein,

zu wachen, dich vom Schlaf Ubermannen zu lassen?

Der letztere gleicht in allem dem Tod; deshalb wird er

von einigen sein Bruder, von anderen sein getreues

Abbild genannt. Und es ist keineswegs poetische

Beschiinigung oder philosophische Spitzfindigkeit

zu sagen, der Tod ist ein Schlaf, vielmehr ist das die

reine Wahrheit. Und da fUrchtest du dich, ein einziges

Mal das zu tun, was dich von jeher ergiitzt?


-------------------------------------------
I like that one i have sort of bin interested in death as a being of sum sort i see it as sum thing that helps you move from this side over to the other . Mind you thats just me just look at the name i use on here LOL :D .
 
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Finis Autem Spero

Finis Autem Spero

Dec 30, 2019
259
What does "autem" mean?

On its own? I think it means however/but/also according to a quick search. My username in total means "The end of hope". Though I get different results from translating it back to english based on whether I capitalise the words. Latin is a weird fuckin' language with all its declensions and other rules I don't understand. I make no claim at all about being good at it, I just recognise the roots of Romance languages which I know bits and pieces of and find it linguistically attractive.
 
E

Epsilon0

Enlightened
Dec 28, 2019
1,874
On its own? I think it means however/but/also according to a quick search. My username in total means "The end of hope". Though I get different results from translating it back to english based on whether I capitalise the words. Latin is a weird fuckin' language with all its declensions and other rules I don't understand. I make no claim at all about being good at it, I just recognise the roots of Romance languages which I know bits and pieces of and find it linguistically attractive.

"Spero" sounds like a present tense, first person verb form. So it probably "I hope". "Finis" could mean many things, but it sounds like a noun to me. "Autem"... no idea, but I would bet my money on a preposition of an adverb of some sort.

I would be interesting if we had any Latin geeks who could enlighten us.
"Spero" sounds like a present tense, first person verb form. So it probably "I hope". "Finis" could mean many things, but it sounds like a noun to me. "Autem"... no idea, but I would bet my money on a preposition of an adverb of some sort.

I would be interesting if we had any Latin geeks who could enlighten us.


"The end of hope" is probably a loose translation.
 

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