The meaning of life isn't to fulfill your desires but to create ones.

[snooperdooper]

This is just something I've been thinking about, and is in no way a definitive view on the afterlife. Think about it: if God exists, why put us through this much pain? Of course some people who resent God for putting them through all that pain (I sympathize, I really do) might believe it to be because he gets pleasure from watching us in pain or is unconcerned or just simply doesn't exist. But what if the reason for all of this pain and imbalance is so that we have something to enjoy in the afterlife? It's infinite pleasure, and when/if you get the chance to leave the afterlife and reincarnate or lift off into the endless nothingness you'll have a newfound appreciation for God because at the end of the day he's given you all that you want and he's created an equal ending for all of us.

No one person would be left wanting anything out of their experience with God anymore. Everybody would be an equal human being because they are who they want to be, they've experienced what they want to experience. A trans girl gets to live out her fantasies of being a beautiful girl, a billionaire gets to live out his fantasy of having all the money in the world, and yeah sure Hitler gets to live out his aryan paradise or whatever. Bad or good doesn't really matter anymore because we're all equally pleased with life.

I know some cynics here don't believe they could ever enjoy anything pertaining to life, and I just think they don't have a good enough imagination. But this is just a thought experiment, don't take it as an attack on anybody's beliefs or wants.

 

[Dejected 55]

God could just make everyone perfect in the first place and just give them paradise. Why torture or test? God is supposedly all-knowing and all-powerful... he can do anything... so why create people with flaws and test them and make them earn unless he is a sadist? And IF he is a sadist, what makes you think that ends in "paradise?" Why wouldn't God just keep testing you there too? There's no reason to believe a God that would put people through tests on Earth would ever stop doing it just because you pass his tests here... it's a challenge... he'll make more tests and keep tormenting you further... because why wouldn't he?

 

[Eudaimonic]

But what if the reason for all of this pain and imbalance is so that we have something to enjoy in the afterlife?

Then that's an awfully bad reason.

 

[snooperdooper]

God could just make everyone perfect in the first place and just give them paradise. Why torture or test? God is supposedly all-knowing and all-powerful... he can do anything... so why create people with flaws and test them and make them earn unless he is a sadist? And IF he is a sadist, what makes you think that ends in "paradise?" Why wouldn't God just keep testing you there too? There's no reason to believe a God that would put people through tests on Earth would ever stop doing it just because you pass his tests here... it's a challenge... he'll make more tests and keep tormenting you further... because why wouldn't he?

What would you desire if you had everything you wanted to begin with? Your wants come from deprivation of things. And happiness only exists because sadness does.

 

[Dejected 55]

What would you desire if you had everything you wanted to begin with? Your wants come from deprivation of things. And happiness only exists because sadness does.

I thought desire was supposed to be a sin. You're supposed to learn to appreciate what you have and not lust after other things or be greedy... but then you're told supposedly you'll get everything you could ever want in heaven... which means, essentially, your reward for curbing greed and lust and desire would be an eternity of greed and lust and desire would be fulfilled. Does that make actual sense?

It all sounds like some horrible game that God is playing with his toys... the toys never win in any scenario like that. You get what you get because God "permits" it... however that shakes out... and as noted in the original post... everyone gets their every wish in heaven? That isn't even possible where your idea of heaven is counter to someone else's idea of heaven.

What if my idea of heaven is for you to not have anything you want? How does that get fulfilled AND you get your heaven too?

In the end, though, I believe there is no God... no afterlife... and this is all just fiction to appease and control the masses. But I could be surprised... and it could be the game-playing demon just having fun at our expense. Either way, it feels like a crock.

 

[snooperdooper]

I thought desire was supposed to be a sin. You're supposed to learn to appreciate what you have and not lust after other things or be greedy... but then you're told supposedly you'll get everything you could ever want in heaven... which means, essentially, your reward for curbing greed and lust and desire would be an eternity of greed and lust and desire would be fulfilled. Does that make actual sense?

It all sounds like some horrible game that God is playing with his toys... the toys never win in any scenario like that. You get what you get because God "permits" it... however that shakes out... and as noted in the original post... everyone gets their every wish in heaven? That isn't even possible where your idea of heaven is counter to someone else's idea of heaven.

What if my idea of heaven is for you to not have anything you want? How does that get fulfilled AND you get your heaven too?

In the end, though, I believe there is no God... no afterlife... and this is all just fiction to appease and control the masses. But I could be surprised... and it could be the game-playing demon just having fun at our expense. Either way, it feels like a crock.

I'm not talking about abrahamic religion. I think you have the mistaken belief that I'm presenting this afterlife in the frame of a god who writes bibles or Qurans so that people can follow his rules.

And it's true, when it comes to how people view other people that afterlife does have holes. Maybe you don't know that everybody gets their wishes fulfilled, maybe that's bad because you'll never truly know everything. It was just a thought experiment thought up by a me, and sadly I'm not perfect, so neither is that view of the afterlife.

 

[Forever Sleep]

What would you desire if you had everything you wanted to begin with? Your wants come from deprivation of things. And happiness only exists because sadness does.

Wouldn't that continue in heaven though? Especially if heaven is for eternity. Wouldn't doing anything forever with no prospect of failure or unpleasantness be boring? Ever played a game on sandbox mode and got tired of it within a short time, because there was no challenge?

I've heard the story that when people are employed in a chocolate factory, they are given loads of free sweets at the start. With the knowledge they'll likely scoff too much, make themselves sick and it will put them off stealing stuff in future. Not sure whether that's true... But getting to do anything pleasureable the whole time can eventually make it boring.

Will it be enough to remember the contrast of our human lives? A billion years ago, I stubbed my toe and it really hurt. I'm so grateful that can't happen here. Surely- we'd largely forget our human lives after the first few hundred/ thousand/ million years.

I suppose I just feel like an afterlife would have to be so very different from how we experience human life for it to be enjoyable forever.

 

[Dejected 55]

Yeah, an eternity of anything will make that brief lifespan on Earth pale by comparison and fade into the distance... and if everything is your ideal, then by the phrasing of the original thought, then it can't be ideal. If you can't enjoy perfection without flaws, then by design heaven would either be an abysmal failure OR it would have to include all the same bad things to make you appreciate the good.

Also, if my idea of heaven is you not getting your heaven... the answer to that can't be "you'll never know" because then I'm not getting my idea of heaven am I? If I'm the kind of person who only is happy when others fail, then I'll need to see that... it's a flawed concept no matter how you slice it... but then, religion and afterlife are human creations out of our imagination... so it makes sense that they are flawed.

 

[doneforlife]

Wouldn't that continue in heaven though? Especially if heaven is for eternity. Wouldn't doing anything forever with no prospect of failure or unpleasantness be boring? Ever played a game on sandbox mode and got tired of it within a short time, because there was no challenge?

I've heard the story that when people are employed in a chocolate factory, they are given loads of free sweets at the start. With the knowledge they'll likely scoff too much, make themselves sick and it will put them off stealing stuff in future. Not sure whether that's true... But getting to do anything pleasureable the whole time can eventually make it boring.

Will it be enough to remember the contrast of our human lives? A billion years ago, I stubbed my toe and it really hurt. I'm so grateful that can't happen here. Surely- we'd largely forget our human lives after the first few hundred/ thousand/ million years.

I suppose I just feel like an afterlife would have to be so very different from how we experience human life for it to be enjoyable forever.

At the end of the day every concept is human created . Reading all concepts is good. After all they were written by great philosophers of those times. Critically analyzing them is also good. At the end of the day it's all about finding solace and mental strength to continue. If you had a great life with all human wants addressed, you wouldn't be needing all these...only 1 rule would be enough to live life...not to harm anyone.

 

[Forever Sleep]

If you had a great life with all human wants addressed, you wouldn't be needing all these...only 1 rule would be enough to live life...not to harm anyone.

It's a lovely idea but again- it wouldn't likely work in any kind of world we are familar with. Many beings on this world are predators. Humans enjoy eating meat. Which means we need to kill things. A few years back, I finally made the push to go vegetarian. It's ok. But, it's not as nice as having that option.

Some animals seem to enjoy killing though. There are going to be lots of bored cats in heaven- if you deprive them of killing and maiming things. Unless the things we kill, maim and eat now don't feel pain and, aren't sentient. Again though- would a cat prefer to chase a piece of string or, a bird?

There's also preference. A person may enjoy music but, they likely don't want to listen to a violin played out of tune. So- either the person playing it would need to play alone- but, what if they want an audience? Or, they need to be perfect at it from the start. In which case, will there be as much pleasure derived from it? Any sense of achievement if they didn't need to put any effort in?

Someone else may want to have sex with a super model. (If sex is still permitted.) Does the super model get a say? Are they effectively a sex doll that will just comply with whatever that person wants?

How can there be an entire world of beings who are capable of choice once more and- everyone gets their own way? It seems more likely it could only work if we all had our own worlds or simulations where everyone there 'served' us. Wouldn't that in itself feel weird though? Wouldn't it feel unnatural? I imagine we can now ask an AI to pretend it's in love with us. Is that enough?

Will we have the capacity to choose in heaven? Some people here (including me) are adament that they don't want to experience any form of life again. So- can we refuse? If, when we are there, can we choose to die, rather than live for eternity? That will mean people will experience loss there- unless their memories are erased. Choice is so fundamental to our notion of freedom. But, how can we get everyone to choose the same thing?

Would we need to become more stupid in heaven for all this to work? To lose our depth of self awareness, existential questioning? Would we no longer question the nature of our reality? If we still remembered this reality, I imagine a world where everything was nice and perfect would feel pretty strange.

 

[doneforlife]

It's a lovely idea but again- it wouldn't likely work in any kind of world we are familar with. Many beings on this world are predators. Humans enjoy eating meat. Which means we need to kill things. A few years back, I finally made the push to go vegetarian. It's ok. But, it's not as nice as having that option.

Some animals seem to enjoy killing though. There are going to be lots of bored cats in heaven- if you deprive them of killing and maiming things. Unless the things we kill, maim and eat now don't feel pain and, aren't sentient. Again though- would a cat prefer to chase a piece of string or, a bird?

There's also preference. A person may enjoy music but, they likely don't want to listen to a violin played out of tune. So- either the person playing it would need to play alone- but, what if they want an audience? Or, they need to be perfect at it from the start. In which case, will there be as much pleasure derived from it? Any sense of achievement if they didn't need to put any effort in?

Someone else may want to have sex with a super model. (If sex is still permitted.) Does the super model get a say? Are they effectively a sex doll that will just comply with whatever that person wants?

How can there be an entire world of beings who are capable of choice once more and- everyone gets their own way? It seems more likely it could only work if we all had our own worlds or simulations where everyone there 'served' us. Wouldn't that in itself feel weird though? Wouldn't it feel unnatural? I imagine we can now ask an AI to pretend it's in love with us. Is that enough?

Will we have the capacity to choose in heaven? Some people here (including me) are adament that they don't want to experience any form of life again. So- can we refuse? If, when we are there, can we choose to die, rather than live for eternity? That will mean people will experience loss there- unless their memories are erased. Choice is so fundamental to our notion of freedom. But, how can we get everyone to choose the same thing?

Would we need to become more stupid in heaven for all this to work? To lose our depth of self awareness, existential questioning? Would we no longer question the nature of our reality? If we still remembered this reality, I imagine a world where everything was nice and perfect would feel pretty strange.

These are great questions. Since I have not read other philosophical books I am unable to comment on what their take is on such matters. I can only answer based on my faith which again I have not understood fully .

There is harm . There is harm with "intent". What you have stated about consumption...one can't point fingers at tiger for attacking a deer. That is it's food. Also it doesn't have critical thinking power to figure out other options to feed itself. So even though it is harm , it's not harm with "intent". Intent is what matters.

Also , as long as your basic human wants are addressed like food , roof , clothing, everything else are your desires. You deriving pleasure out of creating music is a desire. And human desires are limitless. But once those desires are fulfilled, you move to next desire. Even your desires are transient. The happiness you get when your desire is fulfilled is gone after a while. The sadness you feel cause of failure is also gone after a while. Hence it's advised not to be attached to any outcomes. Cause that's not in your control. The only thing in your control is your own ACTION. And that action should never be a "HARMFUL ACTION" with "WRONG INTENT". That's all there is to how we should conduct life.

What people think when they hear about heaven is getting everything they desire. But they forget that the desire itself is transient and severely attached to body. A body needs food. A body needs another body for sex. A body needs materialistic comfort . With the body gone , all desires are gone. So what would you be chasing exactly in heaven ? It's called "heaven" for the sake of metaphor. True heaven is in realising that you are not only this body , you are beyond this body. You have no control over anything but you need not worry if your karma is right . Do your duty and leave the rest to the universe.

 

[Forever Sleep]

These are great questions. Since I have not read other philosophical books I am unable to comment on what their take is on such matters. I can only answer based on my faith which again I have not understood fully .

There is harm . There is harm with "intent". What you have stated about consumption...one can't point fingers at tiger for attacking a deer. That is it's food. Also it doesn't have critical thinking power to figure out other options to feed itself. So even though it is harm , it's not harm with "intent". Intent is what matters.

Also , as long as your basic human wants are addressed like food , roof , clothing, everything else are your desires. You deriving pleasure out of creating music is a desire. And human desires are limitless. But once those desires are fulfilled, you move to next desire. Even your desires are transient. The happiness you get when your desire is fulfilled is gone after a while. The sadness you feel cause of failure is also gone after a while. Hence it's advised not to be attached to any outcomes. Cause that's not in your control. The only thing in your control is your own ACTION. And that action should never be a "HARMFUL ACTION" with "WRONG INTENT". That's all there is to how we should conduct life.

What people think when they hear about heaven is getting everything they desire. But they forget that the desire itself is transient and severely attached to body. A body needs food. A body needs another body for sex. A body needs materialistic comfort . With the body gone , all desires are gone. So what would you be chasing exactly in heaven ? It's called "heaven" for the sake of metaphor. True heaven is in realising that you are not only this body , you are beyond this body. You have no control over anything but you need not worry if your karma is right . Do your duty and leave the rest to the universe.

Interesting. So, do you believe we don't have physical bodies in heaven? Obviously, we can't have the ones that are rotting or burning on earth. What do you suppose we do in heaven though? Just float about? With no body, presumably no food. That's a bummer. No hugs. No smelling or seeing or hearing the supposed beauty all around.

 

[Goodgirlryeo101]

Most people don't even reach 80 and no there is no such thing as an after life because in 100 years most people who are alive right now would be dead and gone. I laugh at those who are delusional to think that they know when their end date will be. Poor souls being so delusional and ignorant are such traits I pity them for.

 

[doneforlife]

Interesting. So, do you believe we don't have physical bodies in heaven? Obviously, we can't have the ones that are rotting or burning on earth. What do you suppose we do in heaven though? Just float about? With no body, presumably no food. That's a bummer. No hugs. No smelling or seeing or hearing the supposed beauty all around.

I don't think there is anything beyond this realm. They all constitute "fantasy" . But that's my personal take and I am not all knowing...lol. For me personally, heaven is when I can conquer self. And when I say conquer self , it means conquer the restlessness of mind. A mind which is rock solid on the face of any kind of happiness or sadness. A mind that understands everything is transient. A mind that is not attached to outcomes. And that is possible by not "forcing" self to believe in the above but "transforming" self in a way that the above becomes your new normal. That transformation is only possible by putting self through life experience.And once that "state" is reached , you don't need anything else. It's almost like getting enlightened.

 

[Dejected 55]

What happens if you marry your high school sweetheart and are married for 30 years and then she tragically dies due to a brain aneurysm or something... then you remarry and have another 30 year marriage before you both die. If you're supposed to get to spend forever with your loved ones... which of those loves ones are you with for eternity? Our human marriage rules do say "until death do us part" so I guess you could choose... but what happens if your chosen partner doesn't choose you? Or two different partners choose you? Everyone can't be happy.

And if we're all without bodies and just energy souls existing... then you can't get everything you want now because none of that will apply... maybe when you are dead in heaven you will not want anything because it doesn't work that way in soul form... and maybe heaven is the same as hell at that point because it would just be endless floating and nothing to do...

It's all just fictional creativity, and it can be fun to debate or think about or watch a movie... but some people take it way too seriously, I think, and waste the life they could have here towards some fictional thing that likely doesn't exist.