Discussion The future of MAID in other countries (including Canada)

[TAW122]

This is something that I thought about over time and I figured that I hear from other members of SaSu who are from different countries (Canada, EU, Asia, South America, Oceania etc.) with regards to medical assistance in dying, assisted suicide, voluntary euthanasia and similar programs for those who are suffering and want out. I'm from the US and live in a state where there is no legal assisted suicide (maybe passive euthanasia and advanced directives but little else). In the US, such a program is called 'death with dignity' which of course, pales in comparison with what Canada and several European countries have (Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland) with respect to assisted suicide. Even in the states and jurisdictions in the US that allow death with dignity, they have such a narrow criteria in which one has to meet in order to be eligible. This narrow criteria is someone who is terminally ill (with six months or less to live), be able to self-administer the drug to peacefully exit, reside in that particular state (except for Oregon and Vermont), be ill enough to qualify but not too ill to physically get to the clinic/medical professional to receive the drug, and other narrow criteria. Furthermore, the waiting period along with the red tape is just lots of hoops to jump through.

So in short, speaking for the US, especially even in states that have death with dignity, it is really narrow and won't help most of us here, or even those who are severely physically or psychologically ill (treatment resistant depression, other mental issues, quadriplegia, ALS, MS, and other severe debilitating conditions, etc.). Sadly, we would just be left alive and forced to suffer until natural causes or other causes of death take us rather than on our own terms. It disgusts me that despite the US touting about being the best country in the world (which is far from the truth), they have a third world system when it comes to the right to die with dignity and even then, only for certain narrow criteria while the majority of people suffering indefinitely until natural causes or other causes of death. Ever since I've became a legal adult, I never felt patriotic for my own nation and it's flaws. There are times where I oftenly wish I could access other countries' death with dignity, assisted suicide programs as a foreigner, but sadly I can't. However, I'm not opposed to the idea of immigrating to another country that would hold values and interests closer to my own, even if it means leaving my current life in the US behind. I'm relatively young (in my early thirties) so if I wanted to become a permanent resident or citizen of the various countries to access such a policy, then I would need to move sooner than later as the older one is, the less likely they would be able to immigrate to the country of their choice.

While it is possible that laws could change, I don't foresee the countries that have very lax and permissive assisted suicide legislation to suddenly go towards an outright ban. Canada first had MAID in late 2016 and only just a few years ago expanded it to include those who are near end of life, but those who severe and debilitating conditions such that they would not deem acceptable which is a HUGE difference between many other countries' criterion for assisted suicide. I don't have any evidence to believe that this would change anytime but I could be wrong, and as always, any decision and future always carries a risk and gamble, but if I could be assured that the countries I immigrate to or able to access would have permissive laws with regards to assisted suicide, then that would be great relief. With respect to the US laws, I could foresee that perhaps more states in the coming years may slowly move to include death with dignity provisions under the law for those who are terminally ill, and perhaps Oregon and Vermont (as well as some other states) maybe expanding it to cover severe physical illness, though I think the chances of that are low, at least within the next decade unless something radically changes. Furthermore, in states that don't have death with dignity at all (most of the Southern states in the US, the Midwest, and what not), it would be very unlikely that they would suddenly have it, and even if they did, it would be again very restrictive, only for those who are terminally ill. The time frame in which such a law would be passed could be well beyond our lifetimes (like 2080, 2100), which by then we would all be gone either by natural causes or other things besides our own terms, which means that the law would be moot for us (in other words, not applicable nor helpful for us).

What are your thoughts on this (asking people who live in countries with lax assisted suicide laws and/or likely to expand them to those who are suffering severely, including that of mental illness)? Does anyone (especially in Canada) believe that the laws in their respective countries will change, or make an 180 degree turn and repeal the right to die? (I hope it doesn't happen and that assisted suicide laws remain accessible, legal, and open for the foreseeable future)

 

[throwitaway]

still so pissed canada pushed back maid for mental illness another year at the last minute. "hurr durr not sure if it's ethical to let people who want to die to die, need more time to figure this out pls"
really hope they don't restrict it, especially since so many in this country are okay with euthanizing the homeless

 

[SpiderLink]

This is something that I thought about over time and I figured that I hear from other members of SaSu who are from different countries (Canada, EU, Asia, South America, Oceania etc.) with regards to medical assistance in dying, assisted suicide, voluntary euthanasia and similar programs for those who are suffering and want out. I'm from the US and live in a state where there is no legal assisted suicide (maybe passive euthanasia and advanced directives but little else). In the US, such a program is called 'death with dignity' which of course, pales in comparison with what Canada and several European countries have (Netherlands, Belgium, Switzerland) with respect to assisted suicide. Even in the states and jurisdictions in the US that allow death with dignity, they have such a narrow criteria in which one has to meet in order to be eligible. This narrow criteria is someone who is terminally ill (with six months or less to live), be able to self-administer the drug to peacefully exit, reside in that particular state (except for Oregon and Vermont), be ill enough to qualify but not too ill to physically get to the clinic/medical professional to receive the drug, and other narrow criteria. Furthermore, the waiting period along with the red tape is just lots of hoops to jump through.

So in short, speaking for the US, especially even in states that have death with dignity, it is really narrow and won't help most of us here, or even those who are severely physically or psychologically ill (treatment resistant depression, other mental issues, quadriplegia, ALS, MS, and other severe debilitating conditions, etc.). Sadly, we would just be left alive and forced to suffer until natural causes or other causes of death take us rather than on our own terms. It disgusts me that despite the US touting about being the best country in the world (which is far from the truth), they have a third world system when it comes to the right to die with dignity and even then, only for certain narrow criteria while the majority of people suffering indefinitely until natural causes or other causes of death. Ever since I've became a legal adult, I never felt patriotic for my own nation and it's flaws. There are times where I oftenly wish I could access other countries' death with dignity, assisted suicide programs as a foreigner, but sadly I can't. However, I'm not opposed to the idea of immigrating to another country that would hold values and interests closer to my own, even if it means leaving my current life in the US behind. I'm relatively young (in my early thirties) so if I wanted to become a permanent resident or citizen of the various countries to access such a policy, then I would need to move sooner than later as the older one is, the less likely they would be able to immigrate to the country of their choice.

While it is possible that laws could change, I don't foresee the countries that have very lax and permissive assisted suicide legislation to suddenly go towards an outright ban. Canada first had MAID in late 2016 and only just a few years ago expanded it to include those who are near end of life, but those who severe and debilitating conditions such that they would not deem acceptable which is a HUGE difference between many other countries' criterion for assisted suicide. I don't have any evidence to believe that this would change anytime but I could be wrong, and as always, any decision and future always carries a risk and gamble, but if I could be assured that the countries I immigrate to or able to access would have permissive laws with regards to assisted suicide, then that would be great relief. With respect to the US laws, I could foresee that perhaps more states in the coming years may slowly move to include death with dignity provisions under the law for those who are terminally ill, and perhaps Oregon and Vermont (as well as some other states) maybe expanding it to cover severe physical illness, though I think the chances of that are low, at least within the next decade unless something radically changes. Furthermore, in states that don't have death with dignity at all (most of the Southern states in the US, the Midwest, and what not), it would be very unlikely that they would suddenly have it, and even if they did, it would be again very restrictive, only for those who are terminally ill. The time frame in which such a law would be passed could be well beyond our lifetimes (like 2080, 2100), which by then we would all be gone either by natural causes or other things besides our own terms, which means that the law would be moot for us (in other words, not applicable nor helpful for us).

What are your thoughts on this (asking people who live in countries with lax assisted suicide laws and/or likely to expand them to those who are suffering severely, including that of mental illness)? Does anyone (especially in Canada) believe that the laws in their respective countries will change, or make an 180 degree turn and repeal the right to die? (I hope it doesn't happen and that assisted suicide laws remain accessible, legal, and open for the foreseeable future)

Im a Canadian, and when I first heard about it. Im like finally and then they pull another year wait, I get it, doctors r not prepared for that. But it's the need of the patient, not the doctor. It's just like a will

 

[just_so_done]

Fellow canadian here, I was also devastated when they pushed Maid back another year. I read a few reports and some videos and their reasoning was to create a panel to make a list of criteria and and how to educate doctors and have it roll out the following year. They also described someone who would be eligible who has mental health issues as their only issue (no medical) and it sounded promising. My concern though is going to be around how long they prolong the process once you apply. It says 8month to a year but I have a feeling its going to be a couple years to be approved if at all. They will want to talk to someone overseeing your medical care like a psychiatrist/dr/or therapist and will have their own psychiatrist to make their assessment (if i'm remembering all this correctly from what I read). So really we all need to hold our breath and hope our government doesn't fuck us over especially when you can't even get help to get better.

 

[that_guy2611]

Is the Canadian program limited only to canadians ?

 

[TAW122]

Is the Canadian program limited only to canadians ?

I believe so, and as a US citizen, I do not qualify sadly.

 

[throwitaway]

Fellow canadian here, I was also devastated when they pushed Maid back another year. I read a few reports and some videos and their reasoning was to create a panel to make a list of criteria and and how to educate doctors and have it roll out the following year. They also described someone who would be eligible who has mental health issues as their only issue (no medical) and it sounded promising. My concern though is going to be around how long they prolong the process once you apply. It says 8month to a year but I have a feeling its going to be a couple years to be approved if at all. They will want to talk to someone overseeing your medical care like a psychiatrist/dr/or therapist and will have their own psychiatrist to make their assessment (if i'm remembering all this correctly from what I read). So really we all need to hold our breath and hope our government doesn't fuck us over especially when you can't even get help to get better.

i think i saw something about a 90-day period after applying but i'd have to look into it again

 

[throwitaway]

doing some research, apparently, you have to consent to them potentially collecting "collateral information" from family. ugh, that's gonna be fun.
also, i found this to be pretty rich:

11.3 Assessors and providers must consider making a referral for suicide prevention supports and services for persons who are found to be ineligible for MAID if, in the opinion of the assessor, the finding increases the individual's risk of suicide.

 

[TAW122]

doing some research, apparently, you have to consent to them potentially collecting "collateral information" from family. ugh, that's gonna be fun.
also, i found this to be pretty rich:

What if someone doesn't have family there and they are a single, independent adult?

 

[just_so_done]

I could be mistaken (sorry if i am) but i think from what i read you have the right to not involve your family as it is a sensitive subject and i'm sure they know most families would not be on board. i think if you have other supports such as a psychiatrist and/or therapist that would suffice especially if they have an extensive history on you and would probably count as suicide prevention supports. Either way this is going to be a fucking maze of paperwork and trying to navigate, so be prepared to be frustrated. I'm dreading the process and not sure i can even wait for it to be an option :(

 

[TAW122]

I could be mistaken (sorry if i am) but i think from what i read you have the right to not involve your family as it is a sensitive subject and i'm sure they know most families would not be on board. i think if you have other supports such as a psychiatrist and/or therapist that would suffice especially if they have an extensive history on you and would probably count as suicide prevention supports. Either way this is going to be a fucking maze of paperwork and trying to navigate, so be prepared to be frustrated. I'm dreading the process and not sure i can even wait for it to be an option :(

I'm just a US citizen and I don't want to risk involuntary hospitalization due to all the consequences and ramifications that can arise from it. Furthermore, as a US citizen, not only does one have to face the indignities of being hospitalized against one's will, but also the enormous medical bill that comes from such an encounter is more than enough to likely push some people over the edge and I don't want that..

 

[suzyzoom]

Another Canadian here. So disappointed they have yet again kicked the mental health qualification down the road, to be revisited in three years, then likely another three, then rinse and repeat as long as it takes to be some other government's headache. It absolutely proves, IMO, that those who profess to "care" about mental illness, with their self-gratifying corporate campaigns or Purple Hat Days and what have you, DON'T actually think suffering of the mind is as valid as physical ailment. So sick of empathic posturing and hypocrisy.

 

[TAW122]

Another Canadian here. So disappointed they have yet again kicked the mental health qualification down the road, to be revisited in three years, then likely another three, then rinse and repeat as long as it takes to be some other government's headache. It absolutely proves, IMO, that those who profess to "care" about mental illness, with their self-gratifying corporate campaigns or Purple Hat Days and what have you, DON'T actually think suffering of the mind is as valid as physical ailment. So sick of empathic posturing and hypocrisy.

Yeah, that is such a shame, and a few months ago I was thinking about possibly moving to Canada somehow, but given what has happened along with the difficulty of all that is involved in moving there and living there, I've more/less gave up on the idea of immigrating to Canada just to have MAID available for me. While it may come into effect for physical ailments, the future is really uncertain because changes in politics and government will dictate how much MAID expansion there will be or if there may even be a curtailment of current MAID policy (which I hope not since it is still quite liberal and open to many other kinds of suffering, especially chronic physical ailments and not only limited to the terminally ill).

 

[Young.Werther]

Honestly though … huge incentive to go to Canada if they passed this, even if I didn't end up CTB. Just having it as an option is really nice.