Venting The claim of “if you just accept it (suffering/bad predicament), you’d be happier” (pro-lifer’s circular logic)

[TAW122]

In an old thread linked here, I discussed about how it is irrational and nonsensical to accept the situation in life as tolerable even if it isn't. This just so happens to be a 3-in-1 thread, basically a vent about the argument itself, a debunking through my take on the argument to the best that I can, and of course, a request for anyone who has a better or unique rebuttal towards such a statement. Without further delay, here is the topic of the thread.

Vent, rebuttal, and debunking the claim
This is perhaps one of the most annoying and presumptuous arguments and claims I've heard from pro-lifers, which is said towards people in unfortunate circumstances (severe illnesses, severe impairment, handicaps, disabilities, etc.). It is rather arrogant and presumptuous as it assumes a condition that someone will be 'happier' if they accept their (shitty and full of suffering) circumstances, then adapt and tolerate it.

To begin, it is not an absolute fact that everyone can adapt to whatever situation there is (there are some that are incapable of tolerating such drastic loss in quality of life, independence, dignity, and more). This is because everyone has different thresholds, capabilities, and limits on what they can tolerate or not. Just because "person A" can tolerate the loss of multiple limbs and still lead a tolerable and acceptable (to 'A' themselves), doesn't mean that everyone else can. "Person B (or others similar to 'B')" may not have the same tolerance nor capacity to accept such a loss in life (perhaps B was a very active athlete, or artist and the loss of capacity to pursue said activities at such a level is intolerable and unacceptable to B). 'B' should NOT have to settle for a lesser goal nor achievement, quality of life! There is simply nothing wrong with it as everyone's limits are different and it is not a moral failing nor a moral issue with respect to it. It is simply just nature and how people are, like some people have more tolerance for things. The same applies to adaptability, not everyone is (physically nor emotionally and psychologically) capable of adapting to it and to force and impose such a standard to everyone (including those who aren't able to) is not only unethical and immoral, but disgusting as it violates said person's rights and wishes. It is neither wrong nor right to NOT tolerate such predicaments that (most/if not almost ALL) able-bodied and healthy individuals wouldn't do so otherwise.

Next, it is such an outlandish demand to expect one to put up with what most other, healthy able-bodied people wouldn't put up with it, and then to gaslight them (the sufferers) for having the courage to voice their (the sufferer's) discontent with their situation. If anything, the onus should be on the pro-lifers to provide (at the minimum) a tolerable lifestyle for the sufferer that they (the pro-lifer) demand to stay alive for them. (I wrote a thread outlining the different scenarios.) The suffer being forced to stay alive for the pro-lifer is a very big ask, especially when it is to validate the pro-lifers atavistic moral beliefs and views, for nothing (of value) in return.

In addition to this, no one (other than the person experiencing said life and predicament themselves) is qualified to dictate and assert with objectivity that said person isn't suffering enough or isn't at his/her limits. It's not anyone's business except for the individual themselves. Only the person experiencing suffering knows and it is immoral, unethical, and despicable for others to dictate that they know what is best for said person, especially if they don't experience said person's predicament and life. It is presumptuous to assume that said person (the sufferer) will be happy if they just accept it. Basically circular logic, because it boils down to if you accept it, you'll be happy, but if you don't accept it you will NEVER be happy. Sure, if a pro-lifer were to encourage said person to find peace, happiness, or something else to live despite how dire said person's situation is, they may do so, but ultimately they MUST respect said person's wishes to quit and/or have a reasonable exit if said person still deems that said predicament is unacceptable and/or intolerable for them. No one (but the person suffering) should have the right to dictate that said person live just so they can validate the pro-lifers' atavistic moral beliefs and world views.

Maybe there are other rebuttals?
So while it would be easy to just write it off as circular logic and a nonsensical claim, I believe there may be a better counter-argument that I don't know of. Furthermore, it isn't anyone's business nor right to demand nor dictate decisions for the sufferer. (Keep in mind that while I have many good arguments, there are indeed some arguments that I don't have the best rebuttal to). Perhaps there are people on here with more logic and reasoning abilities that may be able to form a solid rebuttal towards such a claim (the claim being: "If you (the suffer in whatever predicament) just accepted the situation, you'd be happier"). So while this thread and article is a rant, it is also one to seek towards finding a good counter-argument towards the claim, or perhaps there isn't one and those who make such an grueling demand should just be dismissed (just as they dismiss our rational arguments for wanting the right to die). Again, if there are good counter-rebuttals and counter-arguments towards such a claim, I would like to hear it.

@Forever Sleep @RainAndSadness

Note: This thread was posted before the lost data incident and only reposting it since I believe it is a valuable thread and would generate good discussion.

 

[FuneralCry]

I cannot stand the people who try and force this view onto other people as they worship life so much and refuse to accept suicide as a valid option, it's very insensitive. For me all suffering is completely unacceptable and not worth enduring, it's unnecessary and to not exist will always be preferable. Nobody is obligated to continue existing for even a second longer than they wish to anyway.

 

[Dying Knight]

When people don't tolerate anything that may make them suffer, they become unable to not only live happily but also end their lives easily as well, because in any case they have to deal with something that is beyond their threshold of acceptance. Even ctb often requires some level of tolerance to suffering. Hence improving your endurance is a must, no matter if you gonna live normally or die.

 

[platypusfan]

It is nice seeing this, because I have always felt so insecure and worthless when 'self-improvement' and 'acceptance' didn't work on me. People look down on me because I admit that I struggle with things like illness and mental disability. It's like they expect me not to struggle.. because it's my life, it is what it is, and if they had my problems they'd be fine, and it boosts their ego that I'm not fine. But then I think, what if they really were to get the same brain and body as me, just for a day, would they still tell me to accept it? I wish people were more open minded on others struggles. I feel like sympathy in this world just keeps disappearing. Really, just taking a second to understand the person you're talking to brings a whole new perspective onto life, but people refuse to do this.

 

[TAW122]

I cannot stand the people who try and force this view onto other people as they worship life so much and refuse to accept suicide as a valid option, it's very insensitive. For me all suffering is completely unacceptable and not worth enduring, it's unnecessary and to not exist will always be preferable. Nobody is obligated to continue existing for even a second longer than they wish to anyway.

Exactly, and sadly pro-lifers like to gatekeep on what level of "suffering" is acceptable (to them) and then impose onto others who don't share the same views or have predicaments that they (pro-lifers) find trivial. This is also a reason why I never really open up about situations or suffering because at best, it only leads to disappointment and regret (can't take back what one says once it's out), while at worst, it can led to unnecessary problems and stress. I too find it bothersome and problematic that (almost all pro-lifers) don't see CTB as a valid option (barring terminal illness - though still some of them still don't accept it even in those circumstances), when otherwise CTB can be an universal solution to solve ALL existing (and future) problems.

When people don't tolerate anything that may make them suffer, they become unable to not only live happily but also end their lives easily as well, because in any case they have to deal with something that is beyond their threshold of acceptance. Even ctb often requires some level of tolerance to suffering. Hence improving your endurance is a must, no matter if you gonna live normally or die.

That's an interesting take, especially with regards to having the endurance, the stamina for one to (successfully) go through with the act of CTB'ing. This is logically true as having the ability to override/overcome one's survival instinct takes immense courage and acceptance of the pain that comes with whatever method or choice they are going with.

It is nice seeing this, because I have always felt so insecure and worthless when 'self-improvement' and 'acceptance' didn't work on me. People look down on me because I admit that I struggle with things like illness and mental disability. It's like they expect me not to struggle.. because it's my life, it is what it is, and if they had my problems they'd be fine, and it boosts their ego that I'm not fine. But then I think, what if they really were to get the same brain and body as me, just for a day, would they still tell me to accept it? I wish people were more open minded on others struggles. I feel like sympathy in this world just keeps disappearing. Really, just taking a second to understand the person you're talking to brings a whole new perspective onto life, but people refuse to do this.

I agree and yes, I've noticed that this world has only gotten less sympathetic and shallow, oftenly filled with virtue signaling and just superficial responses towards people who are struggling. Even the commonly (and putrid) displays of platitudes and false hope messages really infuriate and make me cringe. It's all just virtue signaling and an attempt for people to pad their egos.