It's definitely not something I could see myself doing- ringing a hotline. If I choose to CTB- why would I call someone who would do everything to try to stop me? And possibly send police to my door?
In all brutal honesty- I don't know what people really expect when they ring numbers like that. In a short telephone conversation, I doubt someone will agree with me that my entire life is worthless. (Many of us wouldn't even do that here!) Of course- I expect the advice given could and should be a lot better but I'm assuming a lot of these people are volunteers with minimal training.
I know this will likely be an unpopular opinion... but I do actually think it's important that help (although probably better help) is OFFERED (not forced.) I know that's likely going to irritate some people. (Suicide is never a bad thing etc etc.)
Still- for some people- maybe they're not quite ready to CTB. Maybe those thoughts frighten them. Maybe they themselves see them as irrational. (An otherwise very positive friend of mine developed depression as a side effect to the medication she was on.) Maybe they can't tell anyone else.
Presumably- if you ring such a line- it is because you are having doubts about whether you want to act on the feelings you have. People surely must realise that ringing these lines is a form of 'protecting' themselves from going ahead with it.
Personally, I think CTB is something you should be SURE about before you go ahead with. The way I see it- people who still lean towards life in some small way or feel confused maybe ring these lines. People who are sure they want death look for methods. We can do either. (Of course- ideally- 'our' side of things ought to be better represented too in the form of assisted suicide- preferably with broader guidelines- but that's a different argument.)
I agree that it's irritating to have so much pro life crap forced down our throats. Still- no one is forcing anyone to ring those lines. I guess my question is- realistically- do you think those lines shouldn't exist? Or- should they exist and be better?
If so- I'm imagining you'll argue they ought to be more pro choice... So- I ring up and tell them I am really struggling in life and give them my story and then ask- do you think there is enough reason to kill myself? I imagine no one here would say 'yes- do it.' We would more likely say- 'That has to be your decision.' Would that be helpful for EVERYONE when you have only chatted to the person a few minutes and likely know very little about them or their situation? Surely, the better thing to do WOULD be to buy the person a bit of time to really think about their decision- seeing as they must have been at least a bit unsure of it to call a prevention line in the first place.
Personally- I think the best option would be to refer them to get more extensive help. Let's say- in 'our' ideal world, assisted suicide is green lighted globally- people could be refered to specialists to REALLY explore their thoughts and decide on whether this was something they truly wanted.
In the world as it unfortunately stands, I don't see what else we could do other than to make those services better... I'm sure very few people here would be in favour of a 'suicide encouragement line...'
Free choice is great but it relies on the person being in a rational enough state of mind to be able to make that choice. How do you assertain whether someone is acting impulsively when you are a volunteer with perhaps minimal training and are likely pro life yourself?
I just think realistically- prevention lines might REALLY irritate us (fine- don't ring one!) but they do serve a function for people who are unsure. (Although undoubtably- they could be better.) It's a bit like @Wunderkind posted the other day- CTB is one option- not necessarily the right one for everyone at that point in their lives.
I suppose the real frustration is perhaps because they (sound like) they are manned by pro lifers armed with non sensical platitudes. Perhaps the frustration is (rightly) that these don't really work. Trouble I suppose is- the same trouble with life itself- they're not going to be able to give you a reason that makes life all make sense and seem better (because no one knows it.) That's not to say that SOME people don't improve and move beyond what may have been a phase for them though. I'd imagine a person ringing a hotline like that would be more open to change and might see at least some reason NOT to do it. Surely, they need to be given a voice too?
To address your reply, I would say, yes, better help would certainly be a start, (not being overly pro-life and cliche as that is quite dismissive towards people's plights and presumptuous), and
most importantly, not forced onto the caller.
As for callers who are unsure or uncertain, it wouldn't hurt to acknowledge their feelings without blocking off their exit (e.g. instead of saying "suicide is wrong", "suicide is never the answer", "suicide is not an option", etc. they could say something like "have you considered other solutions prior to suicide", "perhaps try other solutions", "I understand and sorry you feel this way, maybe xyz (depending on situation of the caller) might be a solution?", etc.)
I think those lines should exist under the conditions that:
1) They don't force pro-life propaganda and filth down the callers' throat
2) No forcible intervention (includes involuntary commitment, forced detainment, forced medication, hospitalization against a person's will).
3) Not aggressive (all over the place) promotion/advertising and the only solution towards mental health and psychological issues.
This way (ideally) the people who use them are those who want someone to talk them down (without forced intervention unless caller requests it), are validated during an acute episode, and given proper support (having someone to vent to, be a listening ear, etc.).
I would be against a suicide encouragement line as that crosses the ethical line of becoming pro-death, which would be unethical and immoral towards our own values. We should not encourage anyone to CTB nor should we save anyone who wishes not to be saved.
So in conclusion, I think hotlines could definitely be improved in the way they provide their services, be less paternalistic, dismissive, and invalidating, and could help those who are unsure. Also they should not be the only solution for people struggling with mental health nor should they be overpromoted (plastered everywhere and anytime mental health related subjects are mentioned).
