Summary of my main meaning of life view and why dying can be rational

[kamakura]

I have been pondering on the meaning of life since teenage. Lately, getting in to mid 30s makes me into a serious re-visit of life itself. The followings keep coming up in my head of late and I think I am right.

• first of all, I see meaning of life is simply nil. Simply seeking a meaning is in itself absurd, according to Albert Camus. I always have tried seeking out a meaning, any meaning, but to no avail. At this age and through different stages, I have to accept Albert Camus that life is inherently meaningless. Everyone's so-called meaning is simply an illusion, like an emotional anchor one holds onto.
• The act of seeking a meaning is due to consciousness. If consciousness is often said like a private subjective movie, then just like any movies, why would you have to watch it until the end? If you don't enjoy that movie, you would simply shut it down.
• I think existentialism is just too broad and open-ended, I am with Albert Camus that life is inherently meaningless and that searching for one is simply absurd. He said some people (philosophers) end their lives in the face of meaninglessness and emptiness, but he preferred having a coffee. I don't drink coffee and feel meaninglessness is a suffer.
• When I was in highschool, I read an article that still deeply remains in memory; it was about a top student (same age then) at a private school in England getting offers to study at Cambridge, he was from a wealthy family and life was all going well, but he killed himself after concluding mathematically that life is not worth living. I always thought if a person much smarter and better than me decided that, it would imply my life would be unworthy as well, other things equal. I now think not only that he was smarter than me, he had the courage to act on his conclusion while I didn't (don't) and still just sit home thinking in the head.
• I worked in finance but I never enjoyed it. Despite in a decent industry and life, I was never happy. Have always felt life is a struggle at each stage (student, employee, unemployed, etc). I had a long time off in Europe, which was nice but I found it meaningless as well. I just never enjoyed life much, including the social parts.
• Life is a struggle for the analytic type, which often tends to exhibit introvert behaviours. The more one thinks, the more difficulty and meaninglessness one should face. For people who don't think much but feel, living is a lot easier. I guess that is why many thinkers and scientists commit suicide as they think about life rather than feel it. Like Hemingway said, Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
• I love my wife but feel her existence, although highly important, can't offset my own daily emotional suffering. Her suggestion is to have a baby, which should bring meaning into my life. I ain't so sure if that will really change anything.
• If life is just like any of those keep-sucking-it-as-it-will-improve lies, I feel it is better to end it sooner when healthy at a beautiful location rather than dying old in some hospital bed.
• I logically concluded that my life should be ended, but honestly I lack the courage to act and just procrastinate as always. My only concern is the emotional impact on my wife. However she says she will accept my decision, after spending so many years together, I truly worry about her being alone in this cruel society.

 

[FuneralCry]

I often think about how meaningless life is, eventually we will all die and be forgotten. Nothing we do matters really. I think there is nothing after this and once we lose consciousness that is it for us. I see us humans as only being here because of evolution. Life is one big struggle and is mostly suffering for the sake of it.

 

[niki wonoto]

I can relate. This is why I am more into pessimism (or philosophical pessimism), which IMHO includes some 'sub-philosophies' such as: antinatalism, efilism, depressive realism, pro-mortalism (google them), At least their thinking & conclusions seems to be quite smart, logical/rational, real honest, & even realistic/describing perfectly in details of all this harsh reality of life/world/society/existence.

 

[kamakura]

Yes I am a philosophical pessimist. Ever since teenage, I always asked myself where do I come from and where am I going, there is never any answer. We had no choice to come into life, and maybe we can have a choice to exit life. I have thought about life from different perspectives and I simply think life isn't worth it. The only problems I guess many of us have are 1. lack of courage to act and keep talking the talk, and 2. genuine worries about those that we care in this world (for me, wife and dog).

 

[ClownMe]

In my opinion there is no meaning, us humans are glorified animals and we try to avoid that reality by giving ourselves more privileges and luxuries than animals.

Really, when you break it down, the only reason were here is to reproduce (just as animals do), which is fucking stupid and pointless.

 

[chocolatebar]

I often think about how meaningless life is, eventually we will all die and be forgotten. Nothing we do matters really. I think there is nothing after this and once we lose consciousness that is it for us. I see us humans as only being here because of evolution. Life is one big struggle and is mostly suffering for the sake of it.

I agree with you. From the perspective of the one who lived, after he dies, it will be like nothing has ever happened, so, what's the point in doing anything?

 

[xrafinha]

I agree with you. From the perspective of the one who lived, after he dies, it will be like nothing has ever happened, so, what's the point in doing anything?

I also believe nothing comes after death, but to think really think about it, its crazy, like how come we are here then? One fundamental rule we ourselfs can observe is that life can only come from life.

I don't know, life is truly a crazy and fucked up thing, with people randomely dying and nasty stuff happening all the time, but if I were to choose between not live at all and live again the same shitty life, I would go for the second.

 

[IanUK]

I have been pondering on the meaning of life since teenage. Lately, getting in to mid 30s makes me into a serious re-visit of life itself. The followings keep coming up in my head of late and I think I am right.

• first of all, I see meaning of life is simply nil. Simply seeking a meaning is in itself absurd, according to Albert Camus. I always have tried seeking out a meaning, any meaning, but to no avail. At this age and through different stages, I have to accept Albert Camus that life is inherently meaningless. Everyone's so-called meaning is simply an illusion, like an emotional anchor one holds onto.
• The act of seeking a meaning is due to consciousness. If consciousness is often said like a private subjective movie, then just like any movies, why would you have to watch it until the end? If you don't enjoy that movie, you would simply shut it down.
• I think existentialism is just too broad and open-ended, I am with Albert Camus that life is inherently meaningless and that searching for one is simply absurd. He said some people (philosophers) end their lives in the face of meaninglessness and emptiness, but he preferred having a coffee. I don't drink coffee and feel meaninglessness is a suffer.
• When I was in highschool, I read an article that still deeply remains in memory; it was about a top student (same age then) at a private school in England getting offers to study at Cambridge, he was from a wealthy family and life was all going well, but he killed himself after concluding mathematically that life is not worth living. I always thought if a person much smarter and better than me decided that, it would imply my life would be unworthy as well, other things equal. I now think not only that he was smarter than me, he had the courage to act on his conclusion while I didn't (don't) and still just sit home thinking in the head.
• I worked in finance but I never enjoyed it. Despite in a decent industry and life, I was never happy. Have always felt life is a struggle at each stage (student, employee, unemployed, etc). I had a long time off in Europe, which was nice but I found it meaningless as well. I just never enjoyed life much, including the social parts.
• Life is a struggle for the analytic type, which often tends to exhibit introvert behaviours. The more one thinks, the more difficulty and meaninglessness one should face. For people who don't think much but feel, living is a lot easier. I guess that is why many thinkers and scientists commit suicide as they think about life rather than feel it. Like Hemingway said, Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
• I love my wife but feel her existence, although highly important, can't offset my own daily emotional suffering. Her suggestion is to have a baby, which should bring meaning into my life. I ain't so sure if that will really change anything.
• If life is just like any of those keep-sucking-it-as-it-will-improve lies, I feel it is better to end it sooner when healthy at a beautiful location rather than dying old in some hospital bed.
• I logically concluded that my life should be ended, but honestly I lack the courage to act and just procrastinate as always. My only concern is the emotional impact on my wife. However she says she will accept my decision, after spending so many years together, I truly worry about her being alone in this cruel society.

Brilliant summary like you I have sought in vane any meaning to life. Interesting story about the really clever guy who had everything to live for in the normal sense of the word and decided on death. My cousin was exactly the same; a mathematical genius who could not live in normal society and became a recluse spending every day on mathematics and working on gaming odds. He and I even look alike and I know I am likely to do what he did. He was scared to end his life but contracted a cancer and did nothing about it - essentially suicide by illness which is my option unless I can't wait at which point I may find a way to end it. I don't want kids, I've been successful in finance and have money but it's never made me happy. The only place a few time I feel vaguely interested is on this website.

 

[chocolatebar]

I also believe nothing comes after death, but to think really think about it, its crazy, like how come we are here then? One fundamental rule we ourselfs can observe is that life can only come from life.

I don't know, life is truly a crazy and fucked up thing, with people randomely dying and nasty stuff happening all the time, but if I were to choose between not live at all and live again the same shitty life, I would go for the second.

Indeed, life and our origins are too complex and intriguing. There are many questions that we will probably never answer, like "how can something come to exist from non-existence?", "was there a time when nothing existed? If yes, why and how things started to exist?", "How can inanimate matter develop a conscience?" and many more questions.

By the way, I didn't understand very well what you wanted to say, Did you say that you would prefer to have existed, even if your existence was certain not to be a good one? I think your opinion differs a lot from most people around here, and that's something interesting. Can you elaborate a little more on this topic?

 

[xrafinha]

Indeed, life and our origins are too complex and intriguing. There are many questions that we will probably never answer, like "how can something come to exist from non-existence?", "was there a time when nothing existed? If yes, why and how things started to exist?", "How can inanimate matter develop a conscience?" and many more questions.

By the way, I didn't understand very well what you wanted to say, Did you say that you would prefer to have existed, even if your existence was certain not to be a good one? I think your opinion differs a lot from most people around here, and that's something interesting. Can you elaborate a little more on this topic?

What I meant was that if I knew I my existance was to be the way it was, and I had a chance to choose between living it or not living it, I would choose to live it. My existance wasn't good for the most part, and the parts I enjoyed wasn't all that spetacular either, but I just can't shake the feeling that it was worth having existed. We are all dying anyways right? In the end nothing will matter.

Say you could have sex with a girl (or boy) that you like, but afterwards you wouldn't remember anything about it, wouldn't the sole experience of doing it be enough? That's kinda how I feel about life.


The saddest part for me is that now that I finally know what would make me really happy and descovered through trial and error what works, my body is destroyed at the age of 31, so I won't be using what I've learned nor be able to enjoy it, but thats me, people around me are content enough.

 

[FohPah]

I love my wife but feel her existence, although highly important, can't offset my own daily emotional suffering. Her suggestion is to have a baby, which should bring meaning into my life. I ain't so sure if that will really change anything.

Nooooooo no no nononono.

 

[suisuiforum]

What you mentioned about Camus is a fair point, because there truly is no inherent meaning in life, and I've found that embracing absurdity can assuage the hollowness of monotony. However, he does mention that suicide is a rejection of humanity and free will, and I still think that is merely a coping mechanism for those who do not wish to overcome the nearly insurmountable SI that prevents people from killing themselves, which is completely fine for those who choose not to.

I mainly object to the dismissal of suicide as a valid solution, since it is my personal belief that you can rationally and logically come to the conclusion that it is permissible to end your own life simply because it is not subjectively enjoyable or beneficial, and the pro-life detractors are only repudiating the notion of bodily autonomy and freedom of choice. I've arrived at this from my own perspective on life, as my circumstances do not appear to be outwardly unbearable to the point of suicide, but rather the nature of being alive in any capacity will engender suffering. I also agree with your assertion about simply shutting off consciousness like a movie, because why would anyone continue engaging in an activity they dislike if better options exist? Is anhedonia really not a valid expression as a result of what the world has to offer?

Also, by any chance, are you aware of Schopenhauer's ideas on pessimism?

 

[kamakura]

I read that philosophers and scientists tend to have a above-average rate of suicides. In this dated book by Geo Stone, he cited some 1986 statistics (dated but the message remains) that 3% of male and 6.5% of female US doctors death were suicides (not 3% committed suicides, but of those that died 3% by suicides). Among those who died pre-maturely (including car accidents etc), 1/3 were by suicides. Suicide rates were psychiatrists (who many might think argue to live regardless) were 2x other types of doctors (whose rates are already above average).

The same pattern holds outside of the US, in Switzerland, doctors' expected life is 10 years below those of non-doctors, largely due to suicides.

These statistics confirm that educated persons (those that posses both above-average intelligence and self-consciousness) tend to choose the exit option more than the average mass. I think (speculate) that they are smart and rational and have knowledge and/or easy access to suicide options (drugs or self-administer chemicals). Such statistics proves a positive correlation between intelligence and suicide rates.

 

[niki wonoto]

@kamakura I'm really interested with your thinking. I can relate a lot too. I've tried to send you a private message, but unfortunately, this forum doesn't seem to have that option(?)
Is there any way so we can connect more? (eg: through emails, or social-media like Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, or Line, WhatsApp, etc etc)
Thank you.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

What race are you? Telling your wife you want to ctb and her saying,"Well if you must,ok." doesn't sound like what a white woman would say. Are you Asian?
Very good post btw. When I saw it I thought,"Oh no more philosophy of life!" but this was interesting!

What the actual fuck?

• If life is just like any of those keep-sucking-it-as-it-will-improve lies,

Print this on my underwear.

 

[slyna]

In my opinion there is no meaning, us humans are glorified animals and we try to avoid that reality by giving ourselves more privileges and luxuries than animals.

Really, when you break it down, the only reason were here is to reproduce (just as animals do), which is fucking stupid and pointless.

Yes. Living things like to live

Survival and reproduction. That's it.
It's a fkin bad joke.

Let's not mention parents...
In my world I would lock them up and throw away the key

 

[lugerepair]

I love my wife but feel her existence, although highly important, can't offset my own daily emotional suffering. Her suggestion is to have a baby, which should bring meaning into my life. I ain't so sure if that will really change anything.

Yeah, no. All you're gonna do is create a being who will also have to contend with life's meaninglessness, and then will in turn make a child to give their life meaning....it never ends. Don't bring a new being into a world which you already know to be shitty.

 

[kamakura]

I tried putting myself into different perspectives, both my own historical self and those of other people/animals. I try to understand if I, a person that can live reasonably comfortably in a developed country, don't see much value and happiness in life, why would those many many people in undeveloped countries trying and fighting so hard to get a little bit of a better life and swimming to Spain->France->England to be housed in a refugee camp.

Is it that they love life more than I do right now, or they see a better future than I do?

I believe it is neither. It's more like they lack the consciousness or capacity to ask themselves such questions as they are too bogged down in the low-level details of life (how to find bread for the next day, how to get a water-proof roof before the rain, etc). I think as people gain intelligence (formal education, IQ, EQ, etc) and life experience (via age, work, relationship), they can start asking relevant questions and more frequently as they have more time to ponder in a higher-level without needing to mind lower-level day-to-day life. I speculate that the higher proportion of time and consciousness to face one's self and intelligence to ask the right questions are reasons why there is a positive correlation between intelligence and suicide rates. It isn't necessary introspection and soul-searching lead to suicide conclusion, but it is that lower-intelligent animals (including humans) don't even start the introspection process and so suicide is never on the menu. Using a mathematics analog, it's like a shape on a 2-dimensional plane will never grasp a 3-dimensional shape passing through the plane.

 

[Keto]

This piece of art is really well-written.

 

[motel rooms]

• Her suggestion is to have a baby, which should bring meaning into my life.

This is fucking vampirism

 

[kamakura]

The only refuge in life I ever find is my loving and beautiful labrador retriever..looking into his watery eyes is the only time I find peace. People betray, but dogs are unconditional.

 

[Hurt]

I think everyone should have the right to quit whenever they want. Life is not an obbligation. The bad thing is the people you leave behind who want you to stay alive. I'm staying for them but I don't want to live anymore.