Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Why are suicide survivor stories always the same? Someone who is physically healthy with relatevely minor problems (compared to us) in life tries to commit impulsively suicide, and is then extremely happy to be alive and saved. And now lives a happy and successful life. Its always the same story. I do have a suspicion that these survivor stories are mostly propaganda. Because youll never hear about people who would rather not be saved. And why is it always a happy end?
 
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JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
This is not to encourage you to actually do it. The reality is quite different though. You are right, pink painted propaganda.
 
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A

Amz_Falls

Student
Aug 23, 2019
175
Why are suicide survivor stories always the same? Someone who is physically healthy with relatevely minor problems (compared to us) in life tries to commit impulsively suicide, and is then extremely happy to be alive and saved. And now lives a happy and successful life. Its always the same story. I do have a suspicion that these survivor stories are mostly Propaganda. Because youll never hear about people who would rather not be saved. And why is it always a happy end?
Completely agree. But I guess the media don't publish or maybe aren't allowed to run unsuccessful stories?
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Completely agree. But I guess the media don't publish or maybe aren't allowed to run unsuccessful stories?

Probably not allowed to.
 
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any%

any%

Student
May 2, 2019
168
@Baskol1
With all respect, but it seems like you already made up your mind about this and have a fixed opinion about this, so why would you care about it? Are you not ok with these stories because they might make you overthink a lot of things? Or would you rather be reading all those horrible stories so that you are reassured in your feelings and your opinion that opting out is the best option?

In any way, it sounds like you are not really sure about this CTB thing although you state "no life, no problems" (which is a redundant thing to say btw) and need reassurance from the outside to be able to pull it through or keep that mental attitude so badly, that you feel "good stories" are propaganda. I think you need more time with yourself! Love & hugs
 
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JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
Well, I think Baskol1 is right in a way. The stories are somewhat sexed up in my opinion so it 'looks good' to be a 'rescued survivor' and a proclaimed so-called 'hero' who made it all happen. Again, just my opinion.
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
@Baskol1
With all respect, but it seems like you already made up your mind about this and have a fixed opinion about this, so why would you care about it? Are you not ok with these stories because they might make you overthink a lot of things? Or would you rather be reading all those horrible stories so that you are reassured in your feelings and your opinion that opting out is the best option?

In any way, it sounds like you are not really sure about this CTB thing although you state "no life, no problems" (which is a redundant thing to say btw) and need reassurance from the outside to be able to pull it through or keep that mental attitude so badly, that you feel "good stories" are propaganda. I think you need more time with yourself! Love & hugs

But its true isnt it? No existence, no suffering!
 
JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
But its true isnt it? No existence, no suffering!
But you will have to exist. This sounds paradox, but you possibly cannot be not born. Therefore you do exist. Same reason I believe, that we actually cannot die, we just going to exist in a different way.
 
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any%

any%

Student
May 2, 2019
168
Ofc it is true but it is somehow weird for me to state (personal opinion) because if there is no life there is nothing. So I also dont need to - personally - emphasize that there are no problems then, because there will be nothing and "no problems" is part of nothing just like anything you put behind the little word "no". You know what i mean? No life, no taxes & no life, no love has the same informational value than "no life, no problems". In your case I think you concentrate more on the "no problems" part because you certainly have a lot of em, otherwise you would not be here.
I guess I just want to say that it is a personal perspective which I respect, but I do not have to approve it.
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
But you will have to exist. This sounds paradox, but you possibly cannot be not born. Therefore you do exist. Same reason I believe, that we actually cannot die, we just going to exist in a different way.

Makes no sense.
 
JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
Makes no sense.
Think about this way: imagine you were never born, this is absurd. Like I said this is paradox, if you were never born, with whom would I be ? With you.
 
Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Think about this way: imagine you were never born, this is absurd. Like I said this is paradox, if you were never born, with whom would I be ? With you.

Its not.
 
JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
Ofc it is true but it is somehow weird for me to state (personal opinion) because if there is no life there is nothing. So I also dont need to - personally - emphasize that there are no problems then, because there will be nothing and "no problems" is part of nothing just like anything you put behind the little word "no". You know what i mean? No life, no taxes & no life, no love has the same informational value than "no life, no problems". In your case I think you concentrate more on the "no problems" part because you certainly have a lot of em, otherwise you would not be here.
I guess I just want to say that it is a personal perspective which I respect, but I do not have to approve it.
Ya, I know what you are saying. This is where opinions drift apart. Don't let this thread go too metaphysical :love:
 
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134340

134340

Student
Aug 23, 2019
163
Purely in response to the original topic, I agree that most of the suicide survivor stories you see in the media are positive. I think it's partially because the general public doesn't want to hear the harsh realities of it, but also because broadcasting the stories of people who still want to die doesn't give any hope (or even the illusion of it). I'm not saying that it's right, but it's the same with most unpleasant topics – you likely aren't going to hear the reality if it's considered "bad" or "negative".

I've always found that only hearing positive stories actually made me more hopeless. I felt like they're was definitely something wrong with me for still wanting to die because I was only exposed to the fluffy "miracle"-type stories.
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Purely in response to the original topic, I agree that most of the suicide survivor stories you see in the media are positive. I think it's partially because the general public doesn't want to hear the harsh realities of it, but also because broadcasting the stories of people who still want to die doesn't give any hope (or even the illusion of it). I'm not saying that it's right, but it's the same with most unpleasant topics – you likely aren't going to hear the reality if it's considered "bad" or "negative".

I've always found that only hearing positive stories actually made me more hopeless. I felt like they're was definitely something wrong with me for still wanting to die because I was only exposed to the fluffy "miracle"-type stories.

The same about poverty or homelessness, the harsh truth is often supressed in many countries. Many statistics do underreport negative things. Not just suicide.
 
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C

Cevapcici

Student
Dec 30, 2018
146
Well,I personally recall seeing a documentary movie about Exit international and their accomplishments in Switzerland when I was a child. It was around the time we had a national debate in France about euthanasia, started by a former teacher who was completely disfigured due to her fatal illness ( her face basically looked like a huge tumor ) - and had been sueing the French government for years the recognize that her deadly pathology was a good reason to legalise medically assisted suicide. I also remember that her suicide made the news and launched other debates for months.

So I guess the portrayal of suicide in media also depends on the country, whether it's overly conservative like the USA, or of less "Christian values " like in western Europe.
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
It says poverty is decreasing everywhere, if thats correct, why is there still so much poverty, even in rich countries?
 
JimFord99

JimFord99

Enlightened
Aug 18, 2019
1,047
It says poverty is decreasing everywhere, if thats correct, why is there still so much poverty, even in rich countries?
Politician must send out positive messages, leaving the impression they achieved something.
 
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Baskol1

Baskol1

No life, no problems
Aug 11, 2019
1,030
Politician must send out positive messages, leaving the impression they achieved something.

Yes, especially trump always talks how great he is. Of course there are many like trump, and he is certainly not the worst us president ever. But he still sucks.
 
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Misanthrope

Misanthrope

Mage
Oct 23, 2018
557
They are not all just healthy people with trivial problems that put across this view. That is a bit of a generalisation. I have my doubts it is consciously orchestrated propaganda either. However, in some instances it probably is, dependent on the agenda and bias of the media outlet involved. It is likely more simply an editor going, "Okay we need a positive news story to offset a school shooting resulting in a massacre, find me one. Because we want our reader to get the happy dopamine hit that brings them back so we continue getting ad revenue and maintain reader retention."

The journalist responds, "Well I have a story between brown-eyed dog rescued from sewer grate after 14 hours, or former suicidal teen spreading a positive message of hope and recovery from depression?"

The teen in question is probably very genuine in their desire to spread a message of hope and recovery. Personally, I see nothing wrong with that. If you are rationally suicidal you likely won't care, or think that is nice for them, but my issues are not theirs and their solutions do not apply to me. Or I have already exhausted those avenues. If you are ambivalent it may have some value that recovery is possible and no doubt the article will suggest avenues you can take if you are affected. If you haven't done so you may well be willing to try.

However, the teen in question may well have fallen into the trap that because they recovered then everyone can. But you also see the same trap in reverse of that here. I never recovered, so no one can. Both are a belief ultimately shaped by personal experience then erroneously applied universally as if we are all the same. Both though can be refuted by demonstrating examples of the opposite. Which is pretty easy to do. Hence belief and not fact.

At no point though is an editor going to want a story about a suicidal person that endorses suicide. (The exception maybe is issues surrounding euthanasia.) This is a very divisive issue, lots of ad revenue to be had there alongside public interest and delicious drama of life, death, ethics, religion and everything in between. If you can whip it up into an increasingly extreme frenzy all the better.

Media then may well take sides dependent on who their paymasters are and what their demographic of readers generally consist of. Outrage sells. Misquoting a studies conclusion and whitewashing issues with the actual methodology helps. Or referencing a scientist or expert but never citing who the fuck they are, is also a golden tactic! Citing some impressive-sounding organisation that happens to be a thinktank backed by singular moneyed interests all colluding to create a pretence of an authority on a subject will definitely lend legitimacy to whatever tribe you wish to endorse. Bit of clickbait here and there to provoke outrage resulting in no one reading anything but angrily filling up the comment section. Also, printing statements made out of context is even better!

Some will try and remain neutral and present what is happening. That approach though is starting to seem rarer these days and will likely offend every one for not endorsing one tribe over the other or be so bland they go bust and only the extremes of the pendulum of increasing stupidity get reported as sensational enough to pay attention to.

I digress.

I can explain why in my country of Airstrip One, home to serfs and toffs the U.K. Why suicide is generally downplayed and why you will not see much of anything endorsing suicide as a valid response to the horrors this world can inflict.

There is an awareness of suicide contagion and pressure to reduce imitative acts or face liability issues. What constitutes encouragement of suicide is also pretty vague in law here. It is why stories on suicide are generally vague themselves and plenty is often omitted or sanitised. They are obligated to do so as they don't want to run afoul of regulatory bodies either. There is though some leeway dependent on public interest. The suicide of Epstein is one such example as the detailed how of it is important due to the wider ramifications.

I suspect it is similar in other countries but I can't comment on them.

As for if poverty is increasing or decreasing, what measure of poverty is being used? Absolute poverty or relative poverty or both? What time frame is it being measured between?

Sometimes I think statistics and the framing of statistics should mandatorily be taught in school. But I don't see such a dangerous idea gaining traction. Because then people will see through the bullshit of rhetoric when figures are plucked out the arse end of nowhere. Their anger may well move away from scapegoats and soundbite phrases. To the powers that be, feeding you shit and telling you to like it as your world burns around you. It is okay for them as they have a flame retardant suit and plenty of supplies.
 
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