Venting "suicide is selfish"

[NotStrongEnough]

So I don't know if this is even appropriate for this forum, but I wanted to get it out of my brain. This is my first actual post here, so if this doesn't fit, I apologize in advance.

I'm watching a video on suicide and what suicide survivors think.

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and I get to the question of "Is suicide selfish". That question always takes me down an almost angry path. Is suicide selfish? Sure it is. Am I only thinking of myself by wanting to leave this plane of existence? Sure I am. But I argue that it's just as selfish on others' part to think I should stay here for them. They don't know what it's like to live every day, every hour, wishing you didn't exist. They don't understand that this isn't just something that comes and goes, at least for me.

According to my therapist, this pattern of thinking may just be how my brain is wired. It's been like this for literal decades at this point, and she thinks it will probably never change. It's a pain, literally. It's a feeling in my gut that I will never be happy. Why is it that people understand someone wanting to die if their in physical pain, but they completely disregard the mental and emotional pain that people are in?

I'm having a "good" day today. I am in college, and I was doing homework this morning. Twice I said out loud "I want to be dead". There was nothing preceding it, it's just an overwhelming emotional feeling that popped out of my mouth. There were no major bad thoughts preceding it, it just comes out. And that's how I feel all the time. I can be laughing, and still want to not exist. I can't make anyone understand it, probably because if you don't have this type of... disordered (not sure if that's the right word anymore) thinking, you can't understand the depth of it.

About 10 years ago I was with my ex husband and we went to Disneyland monthly, had annual passes, etc. Disneyland is the happiest place on earth, and I do truly believe that. When you walk through the gates, the world, the entire world outside Disneyland just disappears. At least it did for me. But even in my happiest of times, in the happiest place on earth, not one visit, not one day, went by where I didn't think about how much I hated existence and wished I weren't in it. I thought about how, if one of the rides I was on derailed and I would die, how that could literally be the happiest way I could die. Mind you, I never wanted that to happen because I don't want OTHERS to die - just me. I mean, I told my husband an entire elaborate plan that I wanted him to enact when I died (it had to do with taking a ring that would hold just the tiniest amount of ashes in it, going onto the Haunted Mansion, and during the part where you see the ballroom, the birthday celebration, he could open the ring, fling his arms out like he's excited, and have me fall to the floor where I could stay in the haunted mansion forever). The fact that I'd be that morbid about my death, how I thought about that every time I was in the ride... I'm going to assume that isn't normal for someone who doesn't have my broken brain.

If, supposedly, "suicide is a temporary solution to a permanent problem", then when is this bad brain function going to stop? Because 40+ Years now, it hasn't stopped. Instead of getting better, the cut gets deeper. The hurt at just existing gets deeper. And I'm just tired. I've never been so tired in my life. I'm ready to be done. Living is such a pain.

Anyway, I wanted to vomit this out somewhere, and I hope it's ok I posted it here...

 

[Darkmoon Queen]

Why is it that people understand someone wanting to die if their in physical pain, but they completely disregard the mental and emotional pain that people are in?

Because they can imagine the physical pain but not the mental pain. They think mental pain is as simple as 'just stop hurting lol'. Most people believe that if they can't envision it, it doesn't exist.
There's also the propensity for people to abhor "weakness". I dunno if this is an evolutionary thing but I'd think we might have progressed beyond that by now.

I'm having a "good" day today. I am in college, and I was doing homework this morning. Twice I said out loud "I want to be dead". There was nothing preceding it, it's just an overwhelming emotional feeling that popped out of my mouth. There were no major bad thoughts preceding it, it just comes out. And that's how I feel all the time.

Same. I might not be in immediate pain but the thought is always hovering tantalisingly like a fire door in a burning building.

It's as you say, by definition, suicide is 'selfish'. But so is expecting a person to keep on going while you make zero effort to understand them.

 

[Under The Graveyard]

 

[Pluto]

There's a bit to unpack about the question of selfishness.

Firstly, everyone is selfish at all times, in the most literal sense. Even pure acts of altruism in the holiest of people are driven by the instinct to be true to one's self.

Secondly, it is essential to be true to one's self in order to function. The idea of putting others first is analogous to giving away every last cent of your money and then being surprised when you can no longer survive.

Thirdly, there are plenty of unselfish reasons to CTB. I'm occupying a house amidst a housing shortage that should go to someone who actually wants to be here. My job, possessions and even organs would be distributed to others who want them. I would no longer be contributing to society's ecological damage. Even the painful awkwardness of social interactions with others would be over.

But it seems like the bigger issue for us is having to deal with people who do not understand us. The only antidote I've found is to come here to this forum.

 

[FuneralCry]

Of course suicide will upset others, but we have the right to take our lives at a time of our choosing. It is our life, our decision and nobody else has any say in it. We have no obligations to stay alive as we did not ask to exist. It is cruel for others to expect us to suffer for decades against our wishes. Of course people who have not suffered in a similar way will never be able to comprehend what it is like.

I understand that living is painful. I also ready to be done with life. I hope you find the peace you are looking for.

 

[BeautifulMosaics]

Thanks for sharing this. I've already watched it but it would be nice to discuss together.

For me, this video just contributed to society's view that suicidal people are emotional and it is a rash decision we make the first time we encounter hardships. Not true at all. They were all so vague - "I couldn't deal with "it". "It" gets better... What it? Because there are a multitude of reasons people choose to ctb and they're not all unwelcomed thoughts and emotions that hijack our decision making.

What I would give for someone to just say "Life isn't for me. It's not worth it - I have no interest." Because I know I've seen it here and even in other lower profile cases. Before I came to this website I thought I was abnormal for some of the lack of interest I've had in life. Now that's not the only reason I want to ctb but for some people it's a large part and it shouldn't be ignored by the media and society. I suppose it scares them if suicide if chosen without mental "illness" because it threatens their view that this life and society is valuable.

Society and the media's range for acceptable suicide discourse is so narrow I've only just realised since coming to this website.

 

[NotStrongEnough]

Thirdly, there are plenty of unselfish reasons to CTB. I'm occupying a house amidst a housing shortage that should go to someone who actually wants to be here. My job, possessions and even organs would be distributed to others who want them. I would no longer be contributing to society's ecological damage. Even the painful awkwardness of social interactions with others would be over.

This is essentially how I feel too. My "stuff" would be better off with someone who wants it, rather than me.

Thanks for sharing this. I've already watched it but it would be nice to discuss together.

For me, this video just contributed to society's view that suicidal people are emotional and it is a rash decision we make the first time we encounter hardships. Not true at all. They were all so vague - "I couldn't deal with "it". "It" gets better... What it? Because there are a multitude of reasons people choose to ctb and they're not all unwelcomed thoughts and emotions that hijack our decision making.

What I would give for someone to just say "Life isn't for me. It's not worth it - I have no interest." Because I know I've seen it here and even in other lower profile cases. Before I came to this website I thought I was abnormal for some of the lack of interest I've had in life. Now that's not the only reason I want to ctb but for some people it's a large part and it shouldn't be ignored by the media and society. I suppose it scares them if suicide if chosen without mental "illness" because it threatens their view that this life and society is valuable.

I've never thought about it, but you're right. I do think life isn't for me. The energy expended does not stack up to the pain it inflicts. I agree with you too about society thinking life is valuable. I consider myself a nihilist, so I don't consider life any more or less valuable than anything else, but most people do find life to be valuable. I also wonder if it's just them deluding themselves to stave off the inevitable horror of what comes after death (Nothing).

 

[Jblack]

I am not planning to commit suicide, I am planning on performing a retroactive abortion on myself.

 

[ChobaniFlipSmores]

Yes, it's selfish, but sometimes you do need to put yourself first.

 

[Under The Graveyard]

I am not planning to commit suicide, I am planning on performing a retroactive abortion on myself.

 

[demuic]

It doesn't matter if it's selfish or not. It's a completely worthless discussion.

There are a lot of things that people do that completely selfish, yet commonplace and considered fine, justifiable, and even necessary by society. I couldn't give less of a shit about what normies think is selfish or not. It's clear they have no understanding of the word.

"Selfish" is a word that typically comes out when people want to force you to do something you don't want to do, but would benefit them. Now if you don't do what they want, the tide's turned on you are you're the bad person for not being an obediant slave and for wanting to assert your own right to self determination. No one's concerned about what's selfish or not in day to day life, draining the environment of its resources and not sparing a thought toward the billions of people suffering everyday as long as it doesn't affect them specifically. The "selfish" angle is only brought up to try and thoughtlessly shame people out of suicidal desires.

As others have stated, the motivation to keep suicidal people alive is one that is selfish itself. The focus is on how they themselves will be effected by someone else's suicide rather than the person committing suicide. As long as this central hypocrisy is never acknowledged, any attempt at discussion of this topic in mainstream society is laughable.

 

[Losteverythingtwice]

Wanting someone to stay is the real selfishness. Some issues are not fixable, some pain is too unbelievable or unbearable.

To tell people to 'carry on' when there is no hope and situation will get worse. Just so they can have someone to talk to, or to make themselves feel better, is the most vile selfish stuff in the world.

 

[Darkover]

there's nothing more selfish than bring another human being into this hell hole, all for the sake of sexual pleasure

 

[edu0z]

About 10 years ago I was with my ex husband and we went to Disneyland monthly, had annual passes, etc. Disneyland is the happiest place on earth, and I do truly believe that. When you walk through the gates, the world, the entire world outside Disneyland just disappears. At least it did for me. But even in my happiest of times, in the happiest place on earth, not one visit, not one day, went by where I didn't think about how much I hated existence and wished I weren't in it. I thought about how, if one of the rides I was on derailed and I would die, how that could literally be the happiest way I could die. Mind you, I never wanted that to happen because I don't want OTHERS to die - just me. I mean, I told my husband an entire elaborate plan that I wanted him to enact when I died (it had to do with taking a ring that would hold just the tiniest amount of ashes in it, going onto the Haunted Mansion, and during the part where you see the ballroom, the birthday celebration, he could open the ring, fling his arms out like he's excited, and have me fall to the floor where I could stay in the haunted mansion forever). The fact that I'd be that morbid about my death, how I thought about that every time I was in the ride... I'm going to assume that isn't normal for someone who doesn't have my broken brain.

I feel exactly the same as you. Even in the happiest moments of my life, if someone had given me the opportunity to die instantly I wouldn't have thought twice. It's not just a question of pain and suffering, I don't want to be here, I wish I was never born.

 

[forgotten15]

I think this is stupid. We don't owe anything to anyone as we weren't asked if we want this life or not.

Also, it's obvious no one ends their life because it was great, so I think more selfish are people who expect you to live no matter how much pain you're in so that they feel good.
I can understand a person who comits suicide may cause a lot of pain to those who were close, but in no case this is a selfish act. It just means you couldn't endure anymore so you decided to stop your suffering. I think everyone should have this right and not be judged for it.