Venting Society and the masses also: invalidate/dismiss, gaslight and shame, and re-indoctrinate dissenters

[TAW122]

I couldn't think of another better title so this is more of a broader title to cover my points that I am about to make. So in another thread railing against mental health professionals and the psychiatric industry as a whole, I mentioned briefly about their 3 step process that is a common pattern in most MHP encounters, which are:

1) Invalidate and dismiss the patient's problems and claims as insignificant or unimportant.

2) Gaslight the patient into thinking his/her credibility is questionable and inaccurate, guilt & shame the patient for having such a claim/problem (either by diminishing or using the fallacy of relative privation)

3) Redirect the conversation to another point, reindoctrinate the patient into taking a new paradigm (which most likely is in conflict with the patient's original values, goals, interests).

Well, society and the common day to day people do the same as well. Last night for example, I regret talking to some normie NPC about one issue I had in life, mistakening thinking that he might know a few things. However, he instead dismissed and ignored what I said about my problem and hoping to have a solution to it, then he went to lecture me as well as spew some common platitudes. Then finally, he redirected it into a pep-talk as well as trying to indoctrinate me into normie standards and normie perspective.

Ultimately, the conversation was futile and lead absolutely nowhere. I didn't gain anything out of it and left feeling like I just wasted my time and even even discussing about that shit. I then told him that well it's my own life so I decide what I wish to do with it and if it meant being lazy or unproductive rather than being a normie NPC wageslave, then so be it. Fucking hell, I overestimate the competency and insight of normie NPC's. They aren't really helpful and even those who claim they are, still backpedal to their common platitudes. One of the most annoying fucking statements he made was "go volunteer!" like that would solve my problems... So yeah, I have no hope for normie NPCs who are braindead and can't intellectually reason and find solutions to such a problem, then at best, suggest inane advice that leads nowhere while ignoring and dismissing my claims.

 

[DoNotLet2]

Relatable

 

[Life sucks]

Most humans sucks and are just programs made for the "species". No thinking ability and just trying to follow the "norm". But they also try to enforce everyone and view anyone who exposes them as faulty. This conscious person vs species shit struggle is very hard. The best thing is avoiding other NPCs and antinatalism.

 

[Somberly_]

Well, society and the common day to day people do the same as well. Last night for example, I regret talking to some normie NPC about one issue I had in life, mistakening thinking that he might know a few things. However, he instead dismissed and ignored what I said about my problem and hoping to have a solution to it, then he went to lecture me as well as spew some common platitudes. Then finally, he redirected it into a pep-talk as well as trying to indoctrinate me into normie standards and normie perspective.

It's frustrating trying to talk to people about something they don't understand when you are looking for insight. I try to think of it as not them being malicious or ignorant, but just that they are naive and not even aware of how unhelpful their words are. They haven't had the same life experiences that have molded them to have alternative views or interesting perspectives that might actually be relatable to you. In much the same way I couldnt give you any important or helpful information about raising an exotic pet, they just don't have that information because they havent experienced it. They very well might have good intentions, so I try not to hate them when they talk about things they don't understand. Mostly in the hopes that people will not be cruel/angry with me when I don't understand something later.

I hope that you are able to find someone to talk about whichever subject it was.

 

[Apathy79]

I'd be interested to hear the actual conversation. What's NPC by the way?

 

[Somberly_]

I'd be interested to hear the actual conversation. What's NPC by the way?

NPC = Non Playable Character

It's a video game term for all the background or environmental characters added in to the game. They usually tend to be very shallow and not fleshed out, just there for maybe a single conversation or filler.

 

[Broken Chimera]

That's how it works unfortunately. That's how it went when I brought up my problems. I won't make that mistake again.

 

[TAW122]

Most humans sucks and are just programs made for the "species". No thinking ability and just trying to follow the "norm". But they also try to enforce everyone and view anyone who exposes them as faulty. This conscious person vs species shit struggle is very hard. The best thing is avoiding other NPCs and antinatalism.

It's mainly their "enforcement" and imposition of their values, morals, views, ethics on the dissenters (us pro-choicers mainly) that angers me most. I am not as bothered by their pro-life stance as I am with their actions (imposition of their will) against us. I agree with avoiding NPC's and practicing antinatalism as much as possible. Antinatalism may even be better for not just the human species (we are overpopulated already) but also the environment as well but I digress.

It's frustrating trying to talk to people about something they don't understand when you are looking for insight. I try to think of it as not them being malicious or ignorant, but just that they are naive and not even aware of how unhelpful their words are. They haven't had the same life experiences that have molded them to have alternative views or interesting perspectives that might actually be relatable to you. In much the same way I couldnt give you any important or helpful information about raising an exotic pet, they just don't have that information because they havent experienced it. They very well might have good intentions, so I try not to hate them when they talk about things they don't understand. Mostly in the hopes that people will not be cruel/angry with me when I don't understand something later.

I hope that you are able to find someone to talk about whichever subject it was.

Indeed and yeah that specific guy didn't really experience the same thing so he couldn't really relate. It was his platitude pushing and lecturing as well as getting me to change my attitude (insistent on it) that pissed me off. I don't think I'll find that person IRL, plus it's too risky since I never know if they lurk or guest around here. He is the type that seems to be good at digging up stuff so I need to watch what I say around him. One slip up and then I may accidentally get doxxed, which is something I can't afford to happen.

I'd be interested to hear the actual conversation. What's NPC by the way?

Non-playable character and as far as the conversation, I don't think I want to share it because it might reveal some information that someone might link to me IRL. I'll just say that it has something to do with a personal experience IRL that I've just realized and how having such a discovery of an inconvenient truth and reality just destroyed me emotionally.

That's how it works unfortunately. That's how it went when I brought up my problems. I won't make that mistake again.

Yeah, never again. I've overshared some of my problems with that person so now I'm withdrawing a bit and now have to put that facade. The last thing I need is to risk suspicion and possible intervention when my time to CTB comes.

 

[darkhorse256]

I feel you. They keep telling me I should count my blessings and that it could be worse.

 

[262653]

I know a few people who demonstrate shallowness when we discuss the darker aspects of life, but judging by their position in life, I'm assuming they put all their eggs into maintaining life, not sabotaging it.

I'm reading through "The Conspiracy Against The Human Race" now, and Ligotti makes a lot of nice points, one of them (as I understand) is that self-deception is crucial for both survival and good feelings, that there are some thoughts, regardless of their truth value, that are better (for the aforementioned reasons) to avoid. And he talks about some guy who proposes evolutionary explanation as of the split between conscious and and unconscious, and how not being aware of some things helps the individual to go with "hum-drum, day-to-day" activities.

(Human being) performs ... a more or less self-conscious repression [Zapffe's emphasis] of its damning surplus of consciousness. The process is virtually constant during our waking and active hours, and is a requirement of social adaptability and of everything commonly referred to as healthy and normal living. Psychiatry even works on the assumption that the "healthy" and viable is at one with the highest in personal terms. Depression, "fear of life," refusal of nourishment and so on are invariably taken as signs of a pathological state and treated thereafter. Often, however, such phenomena are messages from a deeper, more immediate sense of life, bitter fruits of a geniality of thought or feeling at the root of anti-biological tendencies. It is not the soul being sick, but its protection failing, or else being rejected because it is experienced, correctly, as a betrayal of ego's highest potential.

I have to admit that the quote is a little bit out of the context, but I think it makes some decent points by itself.

I was wondering (in more distant past) if there are some sacrifices to be made by some people for them to genuinely understand why for some other people "living is not okay". If there are some protection (life apologist) mechanisms that have to be put down at least briefly, so that we can understand each other.
I get the feeling that for normal people to understand us (people who think that living is not okay) they'd have to subject themselves to harm, harm frightful enough to avoid it, and thus to understand us. Or to put it somewhat shorter, if helping others is likely a huge turn off if it implies hurting oneself. So I suggest we "get realistic" and don't expect normal people (not all of them at least) to exercise masochistic tendencies.

Funny thing is, I wanted to say that I wish for people (mostly in mental health systems) to care more about the quality of live than its longevity. Maybe they do.

 

[Whited Sepulchre]

Had to hear dat I'm "self-pitying," in the most beating around the bush around and around till we all fall down kinda way.
I would call it "self-loathing," but sure, guess dats wut happy-go-lucky positive rays of sunshines see it as..
I get it. I'm not dat starving African kid or dat eight year old Indian girl who got molested under the guise of earning a few bucks going out to the tourists to sell some matches.
NPCs...dat is the most refreshing way to call them by, haha.

 

[TAW122]

I know a few people who demonstrate shallowness when we discuss the darker aspects of life, but judging by their position in life, I'm assuming they put all their eggs into maintaining life, not sabotaging it.

Yeah that actually makes sense since the majority of people do everything and just about anything they can to preserve life at (almost) all costs. In very, very rare circumstances do they even consider euthanasia, like terminal illnesses. However, even then, it's usually still prolonged and drawn out pain, passive euthanasia via VSED in a hospice.

Funny thing is, I wanted to say that I wish for people (mostly in mental health systems) to care more about the quality of live than its longevity. Maybe they do.

Agreed and seems to be the attitude in a majority of cases. Hell, even one person (who isn't in mental health but had terminally/chronically ill family members) mentioned that their quality of life sucks and knew that living longer was hell for that person. Oh, but guess what the person said afterwards? Life is still worth living, it's precious, and all the other pro-life nonsense, garbage.

Had to hear dat I'm "self-pitying," in the most beating around the bush around and around till we all fall down kinda way.
I would call it "self-loathing," but sure, guess dats wut happy-go-lucky positive rays of sunshines see it as..
I get it. I'm not dat starving African kid or dat eight year old Indian girl who got molested under the guise of earning a few bucks going out to the tourists to sell some matches.
NPCs...dat is the most refreshing way to call them by, haha.

I hate that treatment by others too, I been accused of "self-pitying" as well as been inundated with fallacies of relative privation, like that starving African kid example. It is really frustrating that people dismiss my claims as invalid or insignificant while guilt tripping me, then denying guilt tripping on top of that. Makes me really angry.

 

[LoNatural]

Just ignore normies