Discussion So was everything predetermined?

[oxymoron]

So was everything predetermined?

 

[itsmeagain]

I think you may want to add a little more to this than just that little bit, like what do you think?

Personally...I don't think everything is predetermined really. What force would be dictating that everything ended up this way? maybe you could say a god, but aren't most gods about giving free will to believe/deny in said god? So why would that be a thing if they were going tomanipulate you so specifically? Personally, I don't really think so. I do think my death is predetermined however. Not the method, but that it'll happen.

 

[BPD Barbie]

Do you mean like does the walker chose the path or does the path chose the walker? That kinda thing?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

If you ask me, yes. The state of all matter in one moment determines the state of all matter in the next moment and the next moment and so on.

I think you may want to add a little more to this than just that little bit, like what do you think?

Personally...I don't think everything is predetermined really. What force would be dictating that everything ended up this way? maybe you could say a god, but aren't most gods about giving free will to believe/deny in said god? So why would that be a thing if they were going tomanipulate you so specifically? Personally, I don't really think so. I do think my death is predetermined however. Not the method, but that it'll happen.

Physics, causality. It's just too complex to predict with certainty. But theoretically your suicide was already contained within the first second after the big bang.

 

[itsmeagain]

If you ask me, yes. The state of all matter in one moment determines the state of all matter in the next moment and the next moment and so on.

Physics, causality. It's just too complex to predict with certainty. But theoretically your suicide was already contained within the first second after the big bang.

But who? By who? What doomed me to do it?

 

[oxymoron]

Do you mean like does the walker chose the path or does the path chose the walker? That kinda thing?

yeah

But who? By who? What doomed me to do it?

whatever, we ended up in this shithole of a life while others live theirs to the best.

yeah

whatever, we ended up in this shithole of a life while others live theirs to the best.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

 

[itsmeagain]

yeah

whatever, we ended up in this shithole of a life while others live theirs to the best.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck.

I don't think "whatever" really makes too much sense here. there isn't much to trail off of. We ended up here, yes, but what is the overseeing fate? What part of the universe unraveled us to this point, me specifically?

 

[Painless_end]

No. Free will exists. Nothing is predetermined.

If I want to CTB tomorrow, I have to take responsbility to make it happen.

 

[Mr2005]

It would be nice to think so. Takes the weight of responsibly off our shoulders

 

[a.n.kirillov]

No. Free will exists. Nothing is predetermined.

If I want to CTB tomorrow, I have to take responsbility to make it happen.

what would I have to do to you so that tomorrow you will go through with it 100 percent? What could I do so that you will not ctb with certainty?

Let's say for 1) I had to kill all your family and friends and for 2) give you a trillion dollars

If I now gave you a trillion dollars, how was your decision free will? Since it seemed to be totally contingent upon me giving you a trillion dollars.

Another question: what if the internet didn't exist? What if you never heard about suicide your entire life and it just had never occured to you that you could kill yourself? What if you suddenly knew for a fact that the christian afterlife is real and you will burn in hell for eternity?

These are all just contingencies. They act upon your intellect as motives and the stronger motive wins out; that's all.

If you still disagree, could you explain to me what you mean by free will? Could you explain what exactly it is and how it operates/ how you recognize it? And could you explain which organisms have free will and which don't please. So what is the requirement for having free will? Do amoeba have free will? worms? bugs? birds? and so on

 

[Fragile]

i don't think that we'll ever find the answer, and it's scary, do we chose to think that we have free will or were we just predetermined to think that way?

but i think that everything is indeed predetermined, if we are to believe physics and mathematics in general, everything can be measured, every trajectory can be predicted and everything can be quantified, i believe that our lives are no different.
at the end of the day we are just creatures of pure instincts, we do what we do because some chemicals in our brains tell us to do so. if we find something pleasurable then we indulge, if we have a bad experience then we avoid it. most people live their lives like that until they can no longer do it.

and it goes beyond the individual level, the actions of others also shape the way that we live, our parents brought us into this world because they felt those instincts telling them to create a child, and that's how everything functions in a basic level.

 

[michaelbrownlee]

So was everything predetermined?

Did you choose to be born? Did you choose this universe? Did you choose to suffer until killing yourself seemed like a good idea?

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Did you choose to be born? Did you choose this universe? Did you choose to suffer until killing yourself seemed like a good idea?

a better question for people espousing free will is whether they have at any point chosen their character traits (good and especially bad); if yed, when exactly did they decide to take on any particular trait and why, and in the case of the bad ones, why they still keep them instead of just choosing other ones (better ones)
.

the universe and being born wouldn't fall under what most people describe as (individual) free will
.

If you dig down you will arrive at the sentiment that people keep doing things that are detrimental to them or others (in spire of their supposed free will) because they are in essence 'bad', 'immoral', The whole moral judgement thing rests on the assumption of free will, that's why it is such an important issue for me.

 

[michaelbrownlee]

a better question for people espousing free will is whether they have at any point chosen their character traits (good and especially bad); if yed, when exactly did they decide to take on any particular trait and why, and in the case of the bad ones, why they still keep them instead of just choosing other ones (better ones)
.

the universe and being born wouldn't fall under what most people describe as (individual) free will
.

If you dig down you will arrive at the sentiment that people keep doing things that are detrimental to them or others (in spire of their supposed free will) because they are in essence 'bad', 'immoral', The whole moral judgement thing rests on the assumption of free will, that's why it is such an important issue for me.

Good point. To those who say being gay is a sinful choice the best question for anyone who listens to argument is asking when they chose to be straight.
I never chose to be constantly anxious, being beaten up and stolen from by my siblings made me this way.
I never chose to a lonely loner, being romantically rejected because I'm not a smooth liar like my cheating brother made me this way.
I never chose to blow my brains out, being kicked around by every single person in my worthless existence made me choose to die this way.

 

[a.n.kirillov]

Good point. To those who say being gay is a sinful choice the best question for anyone who listens to argument is asking when they chose to be straight.
I never chose to be constantly anxious, being beaten up and stolen from by my siblings made me this way.
I never chose to a lonely loner, being romantically rejected because I'm not a smooth liar like my cheating brother made me this way.
I never chose to blow my brains out, being kicked around by every single person in my worthless existence made me choose to die this way.

Exactly. Now the problem is I would argue that you need the bad experiences to realize this; so, for example, addiction is a perfect catalyst for realizing that free will is an illusion. If you have always been socially successful you will have a propensity to attribute it to your moral superiority; very basic human nature