Help SN numbers importance

[medicore]

Stan quotes 50mL water + 20-25g SN to make the death drink. My ctb event is coming up soon, and my plan is to hide under a bridge then take it there. I'll also have to mix it there, so I'm using 62.5mL of water (by splitting a water bottle thrice, you get that much, which goes up to about the bottom "ab" on an ozarka bottle) as well as roughly 1/5th of my 113g bottle (which should amount to about 23 or 24 grams).
I'm a bit scared of the SN dosage, since I really have about no reliable way to measure THAT. What I'm going for is just a bit over 3/10 of the way up from the bottom of the bottle to the final "ab", and then I'll pour the water into the SN, shake, and hope for the best. If I'm doing my conversions right, that should amount to ~25g.

Anyways, my questions:
1. The water amount doesn't really matter, I'm sure- But I'm asking just in case. Does it? Is taking SN in a granulated and dry form an option? Stan states that it's important for the SN to be fully dissolved, but I can't get my head around why that is (maybe except for the fact that it tastes like salt-saturated diarrhea).

2. What kind of consistency should the liquid have? How and how hard should I mix (shake really hard, use spoon, is it important, etc??)

3. Finally, how accurate are my numbers and milestones? I'm pretty sure they aren't gonna be perfect, since the bottles are made of bendy plastic and all, but I don't really have any other ways of setting milestones in an inconspicuous way (I've always been under the custody of others. I can't have enough time alone to get a graduated container and fill it with mysterious packaged powder.) A picture detailing what I'll keep in mind is attached (and yes, I'm using multiple bottles just in case I throw out too much, to make more drinks and of course to measure the SN individually from the water)

Yes, I've read Stan's guide. And, yes, I'm aware that these are questions require a bunch of trouble to answer, but.. I guess, that, by answering these questions (ie, party b sees this post and uses their measurement tools to give rough estimates for SN volume and water volume in an ozarka bottle, explains importance of things like the concentration and solution), we could collectively help out some other people that may be in similar situations (in which they can't get access to real measuring tools and stuff). Y'know, adding to the resources and all.

 

[jgm63]

Last night someone took SN without dissolving it, then drunk some water after :
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/survived.34342/
If he hadn't been found, it sounded as though it would have worked for him....

Also, in case this has some partial use in building up your anwers :
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-water-amount-lookup-table-v2.32241/

 

[medicore]

Last night someone took SN without dissolving it, then drunk some water after :
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/survived.34342/
If he hadn't been found, it sounded as though it would have worked for him....

Also, in case this has some partial use in building up your anwers :
https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-water-amount-lookup-table-v2.32241/

Yeah, I saw the table. I'm taking the appropriate dose. I guess the water doesn't really matter in the first place, but I'll still be sure to use minimal water and only add more if it won't fully dissolve, since.. Y'know, I wanna get it all down, and all that. I hope that underdosing doesn't result in something spooky. I'll probably take my 3/10ths of the underab area and if it doesn't work, sprinkle a tad more into my mouth and wash it down like this guy did.
Thanks.

 

[jgm63]

Yeah, I saw the table. I'm taking the appropriate dose. I guess the water doesn't really matter in the first place, but I'll still be sure to use minimal water and only add more if it won't fully dissolve, since.. Y'know, I wanna get it all down, and all that. I hope that underdosing doesn't result in something spooky. I'll probably take my 3/10ths of the underab area and if it doesn't work, sprinkle a tad more into my mouth and wash it down like this guy did.
Thanks.

What sort of "underdosing" are you referring to ?

 

[k75]

I'm not awake enough to tackle most of your questions, but SN dissolves very easily in water, so that shouldn't be an issue. I imagine the main reason it's important it's completely dissolved is to make sure you get the full dose. If there's sediment left, it'll stick to your container, you know?

Maybe you can pre-measure the SN before you go to your location so you can just mix them together? The water amount isn't as important as getting the SN pretty accurate.

 

[medicore]

What sort of "underdosing" are you referring to ?

Not taking enough SN to reliably induce methemoglobinemia. My tools are limited to the markings on an ozarka bottle, so it's pretty likely that I might end up being off by a few grams. Hopefully not in the positive direction.

I'm not awake enough to tackle most of your questions, but SN dissolves very easily in water, so that shouldn't be an issue. I imagine the main reason it's important it's completely dissolved is to make sure you get the full dose. If there's sediment left, it'll stick to your container, you know?

Maybe you can pre-measure the SN before you go to your location so you can just mix them together? The water amount isn't as important as getting the SN pretty accurate.

Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure that since water bottles are pretty hard to stick to it'll just be shoveled into my mouth as a granulated substance anyways.
I wish I could pre-measure, but the way I'm doing this is.. Well, basically, as premeditated as it is, the process itself will consist of a very reckless rush of events. I'm going to a friend's house with a backpack full of water bottles and cups (because I'm "germophobic" and "easy to thirst"), and I'll be receiving the SN there. Afterwards, I'll be going outside for 'fresh air' and escape into the bottom of a bridge, then make my way relative west along the small creek below and mix + take my SN there. By the time someone realizes that I'm missing + sends search parties + said parties find me, there's no way I won't be blue and cold. It's not the best option, but if I don't exit now, I'll be waiting through a few more birthdays to try again reliably.
Yeah, anyways, that's why i asked for bottle measurements- Since the only scale I have is the 500 mL label on the ozarka bottle, and of course all of the conversion factors.

 

[k75]

Yeah, I guess that makes sense, but I'm pretty sure that since water bottles are pretty hard to stick to it'll just be shoveled into my mouth as a granulated substance anyways.
I wish I could pre-measure, but the way I'm doing this is.. Well, basically, as premeditated as it is, the process itself will consist of a very reckless rush of events. I'm going to a friend's house with a backpack full of water bottles and cups (because I'm "germophobic" and "easy to thirst"), and I'll be receiving the SN there. Afterwards, I'll be going outside for 'fresh air' and escape into the bottom of a bridge, then make my way relative west along the small creek below and mix + take my SN there. By the time someone realizes that I'm missing + sends search parties + said parties find me, there's no way I won't be blue and cold. It's not the best option, but if I don't exit now, I'll be waiting through a few more birthdays to try again reliably.
Yeah, anyways, that's why i asked for bottle measurements- Since the only scale I have is the 500 mL label on the ozarka bottle, and of course all of the conversion factors.

Not necessarily. I often add sugar and citrus juice to bottles of water, and if the sugar doesn't dissolve all the way, it just sticks to the inside of the bottle and there's no getting it out unless you add more water and try to dissolve again.



Ok, I hesitated saying this because I feel it's not reliable enough to have everyone trying to do, but there's an old baker's tip for measuring that might help you. At least, it's better than nothing. But please, this is desperation guestimates and should not replace actual measurements!!!

If you kind of cup your hand, your palm makes a bowl. That's about a tablespoon. I'm attaching a picture with a rounded tablespoon of salt so you can get an idea (but I have small girl hands, so it looks like a lot more). Maybe you could do that yourself so you can see roughly what that looks like in your own hand and use it to measure later?

 

[medicore]

Not necessarily. I often add sugar and citrus juice to bottles of water, and if the sugar doesn't dissolve all the way, it just sticks to the inside of the bottle and there's no getting it out unless you add more water and try to dissolve again.



Ok, I hesitated saying this because I feel it's not reliable enough to have everyone trying to do, but there's an old baker's tip for measuring that might help you. At least, it's better than nothing. But please, this is desperation guestimates and should not replace actual measurements!!!

If you kind of cup your hand, your palm makes a bowl. That's about a tablespoon. I'm attaching a picture with a rounded tablespoon of salt so you can get an idea (but I have small girl hands, so it looks like a lot more). Maybe you could do that yourself so you can see roughly what that looks like in your own hand and use it to measure later?

View attachment 29459

Dang, that does certainly seem like a lot. About 1.5 handfuls should = around 25g. That kinda scares me, because I'm not sure if I did the conversions right. In the water bottle, it seemed like a few spoons.. But here it looks like a good 6 or 7. I guess I'll just have to get my custodian to leave me alone for a while so I can do some markings on plastic bottles, or something. Thanks though, this'll likely come in handy should I wake up in the middle of a concrete creek with 3 bottles or something.

 

[jgm63]

Can you not just pack some small scales, or worst case even just a teaspoon to take with you ?
(e.g. take a look at Wahl Folding Kitchen Scales)
Some paper plates could come in handy as well, or even some sheets of paper, that could be folded into a sort of makeshift temporary plate.

 

[TimeToBiteTheDust]

maybe except for the fact that it tastes like salt-saturated diarrhea

Oh just by reading that I felt like vomiting.

 

[medicore]

Can you not just pack some small scales, or worst case even just a teaspoon to take with you ?
(e.g. take a look at Wahl Folding Kitchen Scales)
Some paper plates could come in handy as well, or even some sheets of paper, that could be folded into a sort of makeshift temporary plate.

I certainly wouldn't have gone through the trouble of trying to use bottle markings to know how much of each ingredient to use had I access to real measuring tools, or even a means of obtaining them. I have really, really limited autonomy and always have. It's just my life situation, I guess.

Oh just by reading that I felt like vomiting.

I'm glad you enjoyed it lmao

 

[jgm63]

I certainly wouldn't have gone through the trouble of trying to use bottle markings to know how much of each ingredient to use had I access to real measuring tools, or even a means of obtaining them. I have really, really limited autonomy and always have. It's just my life situation, I guess.


I'm glad you enjoyed it lmao

Another option would be to make use of the solubility data :

Solubility table - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

eg 100ml of water will dissolve around 80g of SN (it will vary somewhat depending on the temperature).
So 25ml water will dissolve 20g SN.

So you could take 25ml water, and keep adding a bit of SN and stirring (or shaking), until it "saturates" and you can no longer get it to go clear by stirring / shaking.

Then you can add another 15ml of water to bring the water amount up to 40ml, and give a final stir / shake....

Just a thought....

 

[medicore]

Another option would be to make use of the solubility data :

Solubility table - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

eg 100ml of water will dissolve around 80g of SN (it will vary somewhat depending on the temperature).
So 25ml water will dissolve 20g SN.

So you could take 25ml water, and keep adding a bit of SN and stirring (or shaking), until it "saturates" and you can no longer get it to go clear by stirring / shaking.

Then you can add another 15ml of water to bring the water amount up to 40ml, and give a final stir / shake....

Just a thought....

That's pretty reassuring. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to dissolve it in 65, but this is definitely more than enough. Actually, maybe I could keep on adding SN to 25ml water till it didn't dissolve as a measuring tool. I'll have to weigh my options, I've got ~5 days left. Thanks for the sol table man, that's a great resource.

 

[k75]

In the water bottle, it seemed like a few spoons.. But here it looks like a good 6 or 7.

This is the real problem with people measuring with spoons. Often, a spoon you eat with is called a teaspoon or tablespoon, but they might not actually hold that much. So someone might use one of those and might not have enough.

What we need to be measuring with is an actual measuring spoon for baking. That's what I used.. Those are supposed to be a standard size... only, from what I gather, there's even a difference between US and UK measuring spoons. This is why scales really are best.

 

[Quarky00]

1. The water amount doesn't really matter, I'm sure- But I'm asking just in case. Does it?

Correct
Could be 50ml , 75ml, fine.

Is taking SN in a granulated and dry form an option?

Dissolve in water.

2. What kind of consistency should the liquid have?

Water

How and how hard should I mix (shake really hard, use spoon, is it important, etc??)

Spoon. Stir well untill dissolved.
SN in a bottle should be easier than a plastic cup if you're outside (won't spill). Just shake it well.

3. Finally, how accurate are my numbers and milestones?

Your ideas how to measure water and SN are great:)

Use them. Dividing that 113g in the bottle is most accurate. Better than estimates of "how big it looks". I would not use "handful" with poison... I do an estimate of bottle height all the time for solutions I prepare (for other causes:), when I need to measure 40% of 10ml for example. A ruler on the container may help, though not necessary.

Maybe you can pre-measure the SN before you go to your location so you can just mix them together? The water amount isn't as important as getting the SN pretty accurate.

Yes. Measure and put in a small sandwich bag.


You can prepare SN in a bottle 1-2 hours in advance, if that helps (sometimes mixing things on the spot increases anxiety)

 

[jgm63]

maybe I could keep on adding SN to 25ml water till it didn't dissolve as a measuring tool.

That's precisely what I was suggesting :

​

So you could take 25ml water, and keep adding a bit of SN and stirring (or shaking), until it "saturates" and you can no longer get it to go clear by stirring / shaking.​

​

Then you can add another 15ml of water to bring the water amount up to 40ml, and give a final stir / shake.... ​

 

[medicore]

That's precisely what I was suggesting :

​

So you could take 25ml water, and keep adding a bit of SN and stirring (or shaking), until it "saturates" and you can no longer get it to go clear by stirring / shaking.​

​

Then you can add another 15ml of water to bring the water amount up to 40ml, and give a final stir / shake.... ​

Ah... I'm sorry man, it's 6 in the morning, I haven't slept in over 72 hours and I didn't quite process that I'm not sure what exactly my brain chalked up your sentence to, but I think I must've read it, forgotten about it immediately and then produced it again plankton-style.

Your ideas how to measure water and SN are great:)

Use them. Dividing that 113g in the bottle is most accurate. Better than estimates of "how big it looks". I would not use "handful" with poison... I do an estimate of bottle height all the time for solutions I prepare (for other causes:), when I need to measure 40% of 10ml for example. A ruler on the container may help, though not necessary.

Thanks for the reassurance. I think what I'll do is
1. Try to use marked cups, if I can somehow sneak them into my ctb location
2. Should 1 fail/be impossible, I'll use the ozarka bottle for overmeasuring and then continuous water splitting to then dissolve the SN into the water till it begins to go beyond saturation as @jgm63 suggested. I'll have to recite it several times in my mind though, since I really only get one chance and it isn't in a comfortable environment.

 

[Quarky00]

dissolve the SN into the water till it begins to go beyond saturation

I have no idea what that means . We just add 20-25g SN in 50-75 ml water and stir well . I don't know why reach "over saturation" ...

 

[k75]

I have no idea what that means . We just add 20-25g SN in 50-75 ml water and stir well . I don't know why reach "over saturation" ...

If the water won't hold anymore, you know the approximate amount of SN that's dissolved in it because you know you added more than that. Is that clearer? Maybe I just made it more confusing. LOL

I really don't like guessing with this kind of thing at all.

 

[Quarky00]

If the water won't hold anymore, you know the approximate amount of SN that's dissolved in it because you know you added more than that. Is that clearer?

No .. that's not how chemistry works .. At room temperature SN gets saturated at 40% and according to solubility it becomes oversaturated at 80% ... We're not in a lab so when will we stop stirring? I find this thread confusing . We had simple guidelines , both by Stan and PPH , and while it's great to find good alternatives to approximate things I feel things are a bit off the rails

Like you wrote " I really don't like guessing with this kind of thing at all" , yeah .. So why are we talking about 80g in 100ml.. Or handful of SN..

 

[k75]

Like you wrote " I really don't like guessing with this kind of thing at all" , yeah .. So why are we talking about 80g in 100ml.. Or handful of SN..

Because the OP seems to have no other way to measure. I absolutely wouldn't do any of this myself! Scales for me all the way.

 

[Quarky00]

Because the OP seems to have no other way to measure. I absolutely wouldn't do any of this myself! Scales for me all the way.

If one has 110g and can split it 5 ways (±5% error) that's ideal

You cannot reliably measure volume of a single small dosage (powder) , but if you have the entire volume you can easily and reliably divide to get the right weight .

One cannot estimate weight per volume from density , because it's particles and crystals and air . When I'm baking I convert from cups to weight. For 4 cups of flour -- take ½ of a 1kg flour bag. I won't try measuring 120g cups .. Same for spoons. It's not reliable. I don't know the volume of my spoons. When I make solutions that need precision, I use a ruler etc (random internet pic):

 

[medicore]

If one has 110g and can split it 5 ways (±5% error) that's ideal

You cannot reliably measure volume of a single small dosage (powder) , but if you have the entire volume you can easily and reliably divide to get the right weight .

One cannot estimate weight per volume from density , because it's particles and crystals and air . When I'm baking I convert from cups to weight. For 4 cups of flour -- take ½ of a 1kg flour bag. I won't try measuring 120g cups .. Same for spoons. It's not reliable. I don't know the volume of my spoons. When I make solutions that need precision, I use a ruler etc (random internet pic):

Ah, actually, I hadn't considered that the volume the outer shell of the powder encases isn't the same as the volume that the powder itself takes up. I guess that basically eliminates the water-to-powder conversion thing as a reliable option. I guess my kit now consists of a ruler and an ozarka, then, besides the SN. Though, I'm not quite sure it'll fit down the cap...
I currently live with my parents, and the reason I plan to take it at my friend's house visit is because there's a very slim chance of me being able to get it back home without it being found and me being questioned. I would have to wait for a long period of time in which my mother left the house, giving me the chance to weigh 20g SN with a food scale and put it in a sandwich bag so I could take it at night. Maybe I'm kinda rushing this. The shelf life of SN (especially when out of the bottle) and the fact it might cause loud convulsions or vomiting really doesn't help, either. It arrives between the 16th and 18th, I think, so that's right in the middle of spring break. I'm rethinking my ctb date.. I really don't wanna fail this. If I do, it's Psych ward>Truancy>Shame>2y of wait for another real attempt.
Maybe I might do it during work hours on a weekday after next week, that way I won't be searched for. Who knows, I really gotta think about this though.

 

[Quarky00]

it might cause loud convulsions or vomiting really doesn't help, either

Highly unlikely . Most people found walking under SN , while they should sit . No loud convulsions , just small muscle tremors , which are rare as it is . Vomiting is not violent or continuous . It's just 50ml .

Maybe I might do it during work hours on a weekday after next week, that way I won't be searched for. Who knows, I really gotta think about this though.

No rush . You have 1h so being search for , from time of disappearance etc , should not be that critical (idk personal situation).


I don't understand why it's so complicated . Take SN original packaged bottle , measure top fifth of powder , mark it , pour it gradually to a small drinking bottle until reach the mark , and you're ready .

You seem confused . Postpone this a bit . Think about details not under stress

 

[k75]

Definitely think things through better. I believe it does sound rushed, and if this thread has proven anything, it's that slowing down and getting access to a few basic tools will save a lot of headaches. And the more accurate you can be, the greater chance you have at the outcome you want.

 

[medicore]

I don't understand why it's so complicated . Take SN original packaged bottle , measure top fifth of powder , mark it , pour it gradually to a small drinking bottle until reach the mark , and you're ready .
You seem confused . Postpone this a bit . Think about details not under stress

I just don't have anywhere to actually do it. My options are either at school, under a bridge near my friends', or at home. I'm not that nervous about being able to get a precise fifth of the bottle into an ozarka (not anymore at least lol), but I definitely am nervous about being found. Especially in my situation.. Yeesh, I can already imagine what it'd be like. Best case scenario is that I can get my mom to leave on a short vacation during this spring break, without me, and I ctb while she's away (dad is careless, we hate each other and he doesn't come into my room ever). I think I'm gonna try to pull that off via manipulating her into doing something like that, but if I can't do that, then... Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure at all.

 

[Quarky00]

I'm not that nervous about being able to get a precise fifth of the bottle into an ozarka (not anymore at least lol),

Good Glad we cleared that up .

I definitely am nervous about being found. Especially in my situation..

You only need 1 hour. You don't have any situation when you are 1h alone ? And --

I just don't have anywhere to actually do it. My options are either at school, under a bridge near my friends', or at home.

What place will you feel comfortable and peaceful ?

 

[medicore]

Good Glad we cleared that up .


You only need 1 hour. You don't have any situation when you are 1h alone ? And --


What place will you feel comfortable and peaceful ?

1 hour? According to stan, it could be up to 4. And also as low as 2/3, but I'm not willing to take that risk lmao. No, I am usually not alone for periods of more than 30 minutes (as much as I wish that were the case), and the interruptions are extremely irregular. My mom keeps ears on me at all times, even when I sleep, because she once caught me trying to get my carotids on the closet door, so doing it at home... It's pretty risky, is all, especially considering she'd be suspicious after I purposefully denied food for 8 hours straight, but if all other better options are exhausted I might just try it anyways. It's probably my 2nd choice if I can't get her to physically leave the house for 12+ h.

 

[Quarky00]

1 hour? According to stan, it could be up to 4. And also as low as 2/3, but I'm not willing to take that risk

You can read cases of people saved . And few documented ctbs . It's usually within 30m-60m . Even if you are found early it takes time to get to the ICU etc . Better safe than sorry , true , but 2-3 hours is over the top ;)

I purposefully denied food for 8 hours straight

Again if that's a problem , that is not necessary . Light meal and 5h fasting , stop drinking 1h before = enough ;)


This timeline may help you devise a better flexible plan .

I hope you will choose a place that would make you feel comfortable I know you think of practical issues , very scared of being found , and of a failed ctb . So I hope it will be comfortable and safe . I don't know what the view is from "under the bridge" (mm).. and/or if people walk by there ..

 

[medicore]

I hope you will choose a place that would make you feel comfortable I know you think of practical issues , very scared of being found , and of a failed ctb . So I hope it will be comfortable and safe . I don't know what the view is from "under the bridge" (mm).. and/or if people walk by there ..

Thanks man. The bridge is just an extension of a street over a small creek that rarely gets taller than a foot, and has a large semi-bank. Nobody walks there, but it's such an obvious hiding spot that I'd probably be found immediately. I think what I'll do is that I'll just hope for the best in bringing it home, and then take it at night in my closet. But yeah, thanks for the kind words. I hope that your life is peaceful as well, regardless of wherever it is that you wish to eventually take it.