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nuclearnebula

New Member
Oct 17, 2024
3
i hear that SN anti-emetics are more expensive than the SN, and more important to me, are harder to get than the SN. If i were to make the SN solution and administer as a enema rectally, will it work? Should I use more or less SN or water to dissolve it? Will it take longer or have a lower chance of success? I know everyone will say "Just take it orally" But I don't want to run the risk of vomiting and I don't want to have to source Meto if I don't have to. Is it not common because people don't want something up their butt? Because I'm not fazed by that in the slightest.

Thanks
 
liljeep

liljeep

wake up i know you can hear me
Jul 1, 2023
96
I'm pretty sure people throw up from SN because their body is trying to expel the toxins, not because of anything that the ROA would change.
 
maniac116

maniac116

My own worst enemy🌹💔
Aug 10, 2024
554
i hear that SN anti-emetics are more expensive than the SN, and more important to me, are harder to get than the SN. If i were to make the SN solution and administer as a enema rectally, will it work? Should I use more or less SN or water to dissolve it? Will it take longer or have a lower chance of success? I know everyone will say "Just take it orally" But I don't want to run the risk of vomiting and I don't want to have to source Meto if I don't have to. Is it not common because people don't want something up their butt? Because I'm not fazed by that in the slightest.

Thanks
There's more risk you'll dump it out far worse than if taken orally🌹💔
 
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nuclearnebula

New Member
Oct 17, 2024
3
I'm pretty sure people throw up from SN because their body is trying to expel the toxins, not because of anything that the ROA would change.
whats ROA?
There's more risk you'll dump it out far worse than if taken orally🌹💔
and there's no way to prevent that with OTC meds? like an antidiarrheal med?
 
alienfreak

alienfreak

A danger to myself
Sep 25, 2024
186
Not sure of the biology/chemistry since it's a not a typical salt, but i think salty enemas usually pull water out of your body causing diarrhea. It seems very risky putting an extremely salty solution in there
whats ROA?
Route of administration
 
A

anemicamoeba

Member
Oct 5, 2024
7
There's more risk you'll dump it out far worse than if taken orally🌹💔
Why do you say this? I'm wondering about this too as I have low motility which is obviously not ideal for SN. I was even thinking of making a post on this!

What do you think would happen if I did like 23.5g normally and the remaining 1.5g by enema to try and up the rate of absorption?
 
athiestjoe

athiestjoe

Passenger
Sep 24, 2024
405
Why do you say this? I'm wondering about this too as I have low motility which is obviously not ideal for SN. I was even thinking of making a post on this!

What do you think would happen if I did like 23.5g normally and the remaining 1.5g by enema to try and up the rate of absorption?
That's why medications like metoclopramide or domperidone are used—they prioritize improving gastric motility over just alleviating nausea. Even with these medications, many people may still end up vomiting, but the main goal is to get things moving into the small intestine, the prokinetic effects are highly beneficial.

When we talk about absorption, the small intestine is significantly more effective than the large intestine. The small intestine's epithelial cells have a rapid renewal rate, with a lifespan of just 3 to 5 days. Among these cells, enterocytes are the most abundant and line the villi. They have microvilli that increase the surface area, making them specialized for absorbtion.

In contrast, the large intestine mainly absorbs water although it does absorb electrolytes, but it does so at a much slower rate. The small intestine is much more efficient, able to absorb substances about 10 times faster, thanks to its specialized cells and structure.

SN is primarily absorbed in the duodenum and jejunum of the small intestine, where it utilizes mechanisms like sodium-glucose co-transporters. After absorption, it travels to the kidneys, first reaching the proximal tubule, then being reabsorbed in the loop of Henle (especially in the ascending limb). It's further reabsorbed in the distal convoluted tubule and collecting duct, where aldosterone helps increase retention. Once absorbed, sodium nitrite enters the portal circulation, is transported to the liver for processing, and then is circulated throughout the body to exert its effects.

Thus and added element is how much SN given the slower rate of absorption as compared to the small intestine would be necessary for an effective retal application, that would require more research, trial-and-erorr and I just don't think people want to be the guinea pig for trying (and failing and wasting that much SN in trying it out). Stick to the known risk vs the unknown risks I suppose.

i hear that SN anti-emetics are more expensive than the SN, and more important to me, are harder to get than the SN.
As far as concern on sourcing meto, it is pretty easy and no it is not more expensive than the SN itself. Offshore pharmacy won't be crazy expensive although tele health is another possible avenue to explore as well. There are pretty easy ways to get it. Although it is not mandatory and there have been successes of people doing it without any AEs.

See this post for various cases without the use of AEs:

What do you think would happen if I did like 23.5g normally and the remaining 1.5g by enema to try and up the rate of absorption?

I don't really see the point in doing 23.5g orally and 1.5g as an enema. At that stage, why not just take the whole 25g orally? You're already dealing with a pretty high dose of SN which is intended to be overkill (pun intended). Once you swallow it, you're going to feel the effects pretty quickly, so trying to do an enema afterward seems a bit pointless and an added layer of difficulty. It won't really speed up the absorption either even if you had low motility that is quelled by the AE (as mentioned above).

Not to mention why add the diarrhea on top of the vomiting? And the pain of salt down (or up) there? Does not sound ideal to me.

If i were to make the SN solution and administer as a enema rectally, will it work?
There was a member who reportedly did 25g oral and 50g rectally though [1]. But even the oral amount was at the sufficient amount so I am not too sure if/how much the rectal impacted the success.

Here are a few other conversations on this topic if you are interested in reading more [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] and getting other perspectives and thoughts on it.

Is it not common because people don't want something up their butt? Because I'm not fazed by that in the slightest.

I think the main reason people don't really suggest this method is that there just aren't enough solid examples of it being done aka the reliability factor. It's not so much that people are against the route of administration itself; it's more about adding more variables and dealing with potential unknown side effects. With oral, we know what to expect, but with something like a rectal approach, you might run into some pretty uncomfortable situations—like shitting yourself and not having it actually absorb anyways and just wasting the SN.

Now more about the shitting yourself part: once the salt gets absorbed, your body is just gonna kick into overdrive to clear things out, which is why saline enemas can be so effective at getting things moving. The salt draws water into the intestines and makes everything push out quickly. So there's that extra risk of your body expelling everything before it even has a chance to absorb although I suppose if enough was done to similarly flood the body with SN that even if it is pooped out enough stays, that is in theory I guess possible still. It's probably just easier for people to stick with what they know rather than experiment with something that could be a bit messy & heighten the failure risk.

I am all for innovation though for CTB methods, it is a good thing to discuss and explore but any methods or changes in methods do need R&D.

That's my 2 cents anyways!

With whatever you decide, I wish you nothing but the best of luck and hope you find everything you are looking for and get peace & serenity.
 
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anemicamoeba

Member
Oct 5, 2024
7
That's why medications like metoclopramide or domperidone are used—they prioritize improving gastric motility over just alleviating nausea. Even with these medications, many people may still end up vomiting, but the main goal is to get things moving into the small intestine, the prokinetic effects are highly beneficial.

When we talk about absorption, the small intestine is significantly more effective than the large intestine. The small intestine's epithelial cells have a rapid renewal rate, with a lifespan of just 3 to 5 days. Among these cells, enterocytes are the most abundant and line the villi. They have microvilli that increase the surface area, making them specialized for absorbtion.

In contrast, the large intestine mainly absorbs water although it does absorb electrolytes, but it does so at a much slower rate. The small intestine is much more efficient, able to absorb substances about 10 times faster, thanks to its specialized cells and structure.

SN is primarily absorbed in the duodenum and jejunum of the small intestine, where it utilizes mechanisms like sodium-glucose co-transporters. After absorption, it travels to the kidneys, first reaching the proximal tubule, then being reabsorbed in the loop of Henle (especially in the ascending limb). It's further reabsorbed in the distal convoluted tubule and collecting duct, where aldosterone helps increase retention. Once absorbed, sodium nitrite enters the portal circulation, is transported to the liver for processing, and then is circulated throughout the body to exert its effects.

Thus and added element is how much SN given the slower rate of absorption as compared to the small intestine would be necessary for an effective retal application, that would require more research, trial-and-erorr and I just don't think people want to be the guinea pig for trying (and failing and wasting that much SN in trying it out). Stick to the known risk vs the unknown risks I suppose.


As far as concern on sourcing meto, it is pretty easy and no it is not more expensive than the SN itself. Offshore pharmacy won't be crazy expensive although tele health is another possible avenue to explore as well. There are pretty easy ways to get it. Although it is not mandatory and there have been successes of people doing it without any AEs.

See this post for various cases without the use of AEs:



I don't really see the point in doing 23.5g orally and 1.5g as an enema. At that stage, why not just take the whole 25g orally? You're already dealing with a pretty high dose of SN which is intended to be overkill (pun intended). Once you swallow it, you're going to feel the effects pretty quickly, so trying to do an enema afterward seems a bit pointless and an added layer of difficulty. It won't really speed up the absorption either even if you had low motility that is quelled by the AE (as mentioned above).

Not to mention why add the diarrhea on top of the vomiting? And the pain of salt down (or up) there? Does not sound ideal to me.


There was a member who reportedly did 25g oral and 50g rectally though [1]. But even the oral amount was at the sufficient amount so I am not too sure if/how much the rectal impacted the success.

Here are a few other conversations on this topic if you are interested in reading more [1][2][3][4][5][6][7] and getting other perspectives and thoughts on it.



I think the main reason people don't really suggest this method is that there just aren't enough solid examples of it being done aka the reliability factor. It's not so much that people are against the route of administration itself; it's more about adding more variables and dealing with potential unknown side effects. With oral, we know what to expect, but with something like a rectal approach, you might run into some pretty uncomfortable situations—like shitting yourself and not having it actually absorb anyways and just wasting the SN.

Now more about the shitting yourself part: once the salt gets absorbed, your body is just gonna kick into overdrive to clear things out, which is why saline enemas can be so effective at getting things moving. The salt draws water into the intestines and makes everything push out quickly. So there's that extra risk of your body expelling everything before it even has a chance to absorb although I suppose if enough was done to similarly flood the body with SN that even if it is pooped out enough stays, that is in theory I guess possible still. It's probably just easier for people to stick with what they know rather than experiment with something that could be a bit messy & heighten the failure risk.

I am all for innovation though for CTB methods, it is a good thing to discuss and explore but any methods or changes in methods do need R&D.

That's my 2 cents anyways!

With whatever you decide, I wish you nothing but the best of luck and hope you find everything you are looking for and get peace & serenity.
Atheistjoe thank you for this thoughtful and well informed response!

The reason I considered the idea of a lot from the top and a little from the bottom is my low motility is quite severe. I very likely have gastroparesis, which I understand will really impact how much of the SN I can absorb in a given time frame. I thought it would be comforting to have a backup dose coming in from the other side lol. Do you think it's possible to use SN with gastroparesis?

On top of that, I previously had a very bad and lasting reaction to reglan. My reason for wanting to ctb is multiple severe disabilities, and I know of others with my condition who have had similar reactions. I found out afterwards it has a reputation in my chronic illness community because of this. I'm aware it's a bit stupid to be afraid of being harmed again by reglan when a failed attempt would surely harm me as well haha but it was quite traumatic and I thought for a long time i would never recover from it.

So clearly multiple reasons to not use SN, but my severe disability really limits the methods that are available to me to just poisoning, and I assume gastroparesis would be a problem for other kinds of poisoning as well..

I appreciate you posting the links to previous threads, it was helpful to read through them
 
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athiestjoe

athiestjoe

Passenger
Sep 24, 2024
405
I very likely have gastroparesis, which I understand will really impact how much of the SN I can absorb in a given time frame. I thought it would be comforting to have a backup dose coming in from the other side lol. Do you think it's possible to use SN with gastroparesis?

On top of that, I previously had a very bad and lasting reaction to reglan.
This ties into my next point as well, but in theory, gastroparesis could make ingestion-related processes a bit more challenging since it can delay absorption by keeping SN in the stomach longer. However, on its own, it won't necessarily lead to a failure. Particularly if you can achieve gastric emptying with a D2 dopamine-blocking antiemetic.
I'm aware it's a bit stupid to be afraid of being harmed again by reglan when a failed attempt would surely harm me as well haha but it was quite traumatic and I thought for a long time i would never recover from it.

I completely understand if you had a bad reaction to Reglan in the past. I would gander a guess that it was either via IV or IM or from some extended length usage, right?

The truth is, taking 30mg of it 45 minutes before starting the SN protocol is outrageously unlikely to trigger any immediate reaction or even some long-term issue (I totally get your personal worry having had a reaction in the past, so I am not dismissing that experience whatsoever). Especially when considering why taking the meto for SN protocol is being done, the worry about long term side effects is somewhat moot in that perspective!

To my knowledge, a single oral dose—even a high one—has never caused any damage. There certainly be instances of that out there, just not documented or known. Which still bodes well though. There are cases of issues after prolongues uses longer than 12-weeks where people experienced side effects, although even those are outstandingly rate but maybe if yours was oral dose that you happened to fall into those very slim percentages (or it was a IV/IM which also could be possible). Either way, I am so sorry to hear that you had some sort of adverse reaction. Also, I actually wrote a whole post about metoclopramide that you might find helpful.

When it comes to long-term effects from a failed SN attempt, I'm pleased to share that the risk of any damage is very minimal, if it exists at all. Unlike some other methods, there aren't significant risks linked to failure here, which is definitely reassuring!

I am so sorry to hear about all the pain and suffering you are experiencing and I wish you all the best of luck in finding all you are seeking and that you can find peace & serenity!
 

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