SN clumping

[Onlyborrowedtime]

Hey everyone

I've been a lurker on here for s couple of months but for seeing turbulent times ahead for our community I thought now would be a good time to show some support!

Onto my question. I recently purchased SN from a now discontinued EU seller (I think I must of one of the last orders they sent out). I haven't opened the bottle but I can see it appears to have clumped together in the bottle to one big lump/rock. Is this normal? I've seen it referred to as a powder almost exclusively, and typically when powders clump like this it means they've been exposed to some sort of water. I just wondered if people had similar experiences or whether I should look to replace it.

 

[Thereisnothing]

Welcome here. I know very little about SN as not a method I would or could choose due to my severe health problems. It could be like anything thatsbeen in a bottle or packet awhile and just clumped together and might be ok or some water may have got in. I quickly Googled it and as its a salt then it shouldn't in theory 'expire or go off'. When ordinary salt clumps together its still ok and the same as before so should think this be similar. I cant see it going bad or not good to take, due to what it actually is. Was the bottle sealed when you got it?

 

[Lotus1818]

It's fine don't worry. It's most likely because the SN doesn't contain any anti caking agency. Which makes it more pure. Just don't open it and it should be good for about 3 years. Just write a date on it if it doesn't contain it already

 

[Carrotcake]

It's normal for salts to clump a little.

 

[Thereisnothing]

It's fine don't worry. It's most likely because the SN doesn't contain any anti caking agency. Which makes it more pure. Just don't open it and it should be good for about 3 years. Just write a date on it if it doesn't contain it already

Yes anti caking agents, I had forgotten about them too, good one.

 

[Onlyborrowedtime]

Was the bottle sealed when you got it?

So the bottle is sealed but looks poorly done. The "ribbon" round it doesn't sit flat under the lid. Hence the concern.

Thank you all for the reassurance. It's encouraging that it's likely due to a lack of caking agent. I guess I'll just have to test before I use it to make sure. Writing a date on it is a smart idea I hadn't considered!

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Hey everyone

I've been a lurker on here for s couple of months but for seeing turbulent times ahead for our community I thought now would be a good time to show some support!

Onto my question. I recently purchased SN from a now discontinued EU seller (I think I must of one of the last orders they sent out). I haven't opened the bottle but I can see it appears to have clumped together in the bottle to one big lump/rock. Is this normal? I've seen it referred to as a powder almost exclusively, and typically when powders clump like this it means they've been exposed to some sort of water. I just wondered if people had similar experiences or whether I should look to replace it.

SN turns into sodium nitrAte when exposed to moisture. This causes clumping rendering it useless for death. I have SN. It did not contain an anti-caking agent. On opening the container it was definitely a white-creamy coloured powder, but a few weeks later on shaking the jar I could hear the difference, opened it once again and found a darker coloured crusty top covering the underlying powder. Exposure to the air changed the nitrite to nitrate. I bought another container. Did not open it, and can definitely tell that there has been no clumping. It is very likely that you are faced with a similar situation, and I recommend getting a new supply.

 

[Defenestrator]

Yeah, it shouldn't be clumped like that. It sounds like moisture has gotten in there and ruined it.

 

[Quarky00]

This has been answered several times

Solid – can I open and close the bottle/bag?

YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-faq-storage-recovery-death.29714/

I just wondered if people had similar experiences or whether I should look to replace it.

You can search "SN clamping" or "clamps" --- many reported that and discussed -- SN was deemed ok ;)

~~~~

SN turns into sodium nitrAte when exposed to moisture

Huh? Could you please explain how NO2 ions turn into NO3 ions ?

 

[Deleted member 1768]

This has been answered several times

Solid – can I open and close the bottle/bag?

YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-faq-storage-recovery-death.29714/


You can search "SN clamping" or "clamps" --- many reported that and discussed -- SN was deemed ok ;)

~~~~


Huh? Could you please explain how NO2 ions turn into NO3 ions ?

Apparently it changes due to humidity levels in the air. I live in BC and sometimes the humidity in my apartment can reach over 80%. Not conducive to maintaining dry conditions in a powder.

 

[Defenestrator]

This has been answered several times

Solid – can I open and close the bottle/bag?

YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-faq-storage-recovery-death.29714/


You can search "SN clamping" or "clamps" --- many reported that and discussed -- SN was deemed ok ;)

~~~~


Huh? Could you please explain how NO2 ions turn into NO3 ions ?

Through oxidation, it's a slow process but it's sped up under certain conditions. This is why it's important to store it correctly and keep it away from sunlight and moisture.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

This has been answered several times

Solid – can I open and close the bottle/bag?

YES. Unless you're in a sauna .. It does not oxidize with oxygen , only with water (that solution is potent) Frequent exposure will damage it, but over time. Occasional won't. Clamps are fine Normal temperatures are fine . SN is transported in trucks/airplanes neither heated nor cooled . SN storage warnings mention only high heat, reagents, pressure, and combustion. That includes strong acids / bases / oxidizers . These may cause reaction .

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/sn-faq-storage-recovery-death.29714/


You can search "SN clamping" or "clamps" --- many reported that and discussed -- SN was deemed ok ;)

~~~~


Huh? Could you please explain how NO2 ions turn into NO3 ions ?

Unfortunately I am not a chemist, and since I did the necessary research over a year ago, I no longer have the links that Could explain it. I always check information I receive through scientific papers, preferably those who clearly define the laboratory parameters. It is just something I would not take a chance on using myself. I am not to afraid to die...I am going to die anyway...but I do not wish to damage my body needlessly. In other words if I am faced with uncertainty I will either change my method or, in this case, get a new supply.

 

[Defenestrator]

I'll probably delete this post soon though as I don't want to leave crumbs to who I am.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

Fortunately, I have a degree in chemistry and can assure you that it does oxidize when stored improperly.

I'll probably delete this post soon though as I don't want to leave crumbs to who I am.

I know...I should not have opened t. An attempt to provide another container of the product in case the original was found. Did not work. I have some limited experience in a pharmacy setting, but certainly not enough to come to conclusions re. chemical synthesis.

 

[Defenestrator]

I know...I should not have opened t. An attempt to provide another container of the product in case the original was found. Did not work. I have some limited experience in a pharmacy setting, but certainly not enough to come to conclusions re. chemical synthesis.

Is it yellow in colour? An aqueous soln. of it should be yellow but the solid shouldn't be too yellow, in fact FOOD grade NaNO2 is usually dyed pink for this reason so as to prevent it being confused with sugar or salt.
I'm asking about the yellowness as that could give you a hint to it's purity.

 

[Deleted member 1768]

I know...I should not have opened t. An attempt to provide another container of the product in case the original was found. Did not work. I have some limited experience in a pharmacy setting, but certainly not enough to come to conclusions re. chemical synthesis.

With a degree in chemistry I would be making cyanide. Can you tell me if a yield of 19 grams 0f 29% cyanide would actually be viable as a fatal poison? Thank you.

 

[Quarky00]

@Defenestrator , @poof , Sorry I'm puzzled by that "nitrate conversion" .

Nitrification of NO2 , the addition of more nitrogen , is not spontaneous and requires more substances , enzymes or bacteria ; or other conditions such as heat , pressure , etc .

Ionic solutions DO NOT react with water . The ions 'float' but don't form bonds with H20 .

Reaction = new molecule (substance) created . They need to lose electrons , and break the H20 bonds . For that you need energy .

In labs (that do not require 100% purity for nl scale testing) they keep NaNO2 - distilled water solutions as it is , not even cooled .

it does oxidize

How ? :) With what does it react please ?

 

[Defenestrator]

I mean, ultimately it's up to you guys if you want to take the risk with something that may not be nitrite but nitrate.

 

[Quarky00]

It doesn't cut it to say "I did my research" or "I know chemistry" . You understand hearing that from strangers on the internet is a problem, right ?

I'm honestly curious by your assertions, and I'd be happy if you could explain

I mean, ultimately it's up to you guys if you want to take the risk with something that may not be nitrite but nitrate.

Up to us . But then you repeat "this will happen" and say "I know for sure" . So is it just up to us?
You come and state facts , unequivocally . So please do explain :)

If nitrite --> nitrate conversion is so simple , surely it's also simple to write , right ? ​

 

[Defenestrator]

@Defenestrator , @poof , Sorry I'm puzzled by that "nitrate conversion" .

Nitrification of NO2 , the addition of more nitrogen , is not spontaneous and requires more substances , enzymes or bacteria ; or other conditions such as heat , pressure , etc .

Ionic solutions DO NOT react with water . The ions 'float' but don't form bonds with H20 .

Reaction = new molecule (substance) created . They need to lose electrons , and break the H20 bonds . For that you need energy .

In labs (that do not require 100% purity for nl scale testing) they keep NaNO2 - distilled water solutions as it is , not even cooled .


How ? :) With what does it react please ?

Yes, the energy is supplied by UV usually. Though water (which is in the air too btw) can be enough to cause a reaction to take place.

This has been broached on here before I'm sure:

Sodium Nitrite

Sodium Nitrite | NaNO2 or NO2.Na or NNaO2 | CID 23668193 - structure, chemical names, physical and chemical properties, classification, patents, literature, biological activities, safety/hazards/toxicity information, supplier lists, and more.

pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

And no, they don't keep aqueous soln's of sodium nitrite that would be stupid.

 

[Quarky00]

the energy is supplied by UV

But we don't have UV .

We don't put SN + Water into the sun , right ? .....

they don't keep aqueous soln's of sodium nitrite that would be stupid.

Actually they do :

Sodium nitrite solution 517062

Sodium nitrite 40wt. % water

www.sigmaaldrich.com

So now Merck (med/chem giant) is .. stupid ?

Btw that 40% -- just like our 20g/50ml .

 

[Defenestrator]

You want a simple balanced equation?

2NaNO2 + 2H2O -> 2Na+ 2NO3 + 2H2

No idea how to do sub/superscript on here.

But we don't have UV .

We don't put SN + Water into the sun , right ? .....



Actually they do :

Sodium nitrite solution 517062

Sodium nitrite 40wt. % water

www.sigmaaldrich.com

Funny thing 40% -- just like our 20g/50ml ;)

That's not stable enough for long term storage. In a lab setting it's preferred to keep things dry and make up what is needed as and when it's needed.

I'm not wasting time arguing facts with you as I get your ego is a big deal for you (seeing your post history).

 

[Deleted member 1768]

@Defenestrator , @poof , Sorry I'm puzzled by that "nitrate conversion" .

Nitrification of NO2 , the addition of more nitrogen , is not spontaneous and requires more substances , enzymes or bacteria ; or other conditions such as heat , pressure , etc .

Ionic solutions DO NOT react with water . The ions 'float' but don't form bonds with H20 .

Reaction = new molecule (substance) created . They need to lose electrons , and break the H20 bonds . For that you need energy .

In labs (that do not require 100% purity for nl scale testing) they keep NaNO2 - distilled water solutions as it is , not even cooled .


How ? :) With what does it react please ?

Product Information | UBE Corporation

The official web site of UBE Group contains corporate profile, press release, IR, product information, research and development, CSR.

www.ube.com

 

[Quarky00]

Product Information | UBE Corporation

The official web site of UBE Group contains corporate profile, press release, IR, product information, research and development, CSR.

www.ube.com

Care to explain that link ? :)

You want a simple balanced equation?
2NaNO2 + 2H2O -> 2Na+ 2NO3 + 2H2
No idea how to do sub/superscript on here.
That's not stable enough for long term storage. In a lab setting it's preferred to keep things dry and make up what is needed as and when it's needed.
I'm not wasting time arguing facts with you as I get your ego is a big deal for you (seeing your post history).

You just balanced an equation mathematically .
That's not a reaction ......

* How does H2O break to form new bonds? HNO2 is volatile , plus energy to nitrification: HNO2 + H2O ⇌ NO3 + 3H + 2e. Need heat & water, which is great but not how we store SN (even after opening) ;) Clamps ≠ nitrate.

 

[Defenestrator]

Care to explain that link ? :)


You just balanced an equation mathematically .
That's not a real reaction ......

I am not wasting my time drawing out a complete chemical mechanism for you. You want that? then google "oxidation of nitrite in water and/or air" and image search it for fuck sake.

Do whatever you want, but don't tell people that it's totally fine to store a substance like this improperly and expect it to be a-okay 3 years down the line.
Just to expand on all of this:


I understand that you're fixated on the use of bacteria to catalyse nitrition/nitration as that is the quickest way for it to occur in nature; hence why it's all you'll find when you google/wiki this.

I am merely pointing out that, given enough time and under certain conditions, literally any chemical reaction can take place (and will, especially when the barrier to activation is quite low) with or without a catalyst.
Improper storage of substances like sodium nitrite will lead to it's decomposition naturally, which will subsequently affect it's purity.

My posts are only to highlight this for people who're getting it preemptively and then storing it for long periods of time before use.

 

[Mustkeyknow]

Mine arrived with some clumps, does it mean it's no longer good?

 

[Defenestrator]

Mine arrived with some clumps, does it mean it's no longer good?

It's hygroscopic, so it's not surprising to have some lumps - I'm sure it's fine. What's it in? A tub or a packet? If you want to switch containers then do so but just don't keep it open or keep opening/closing it.

 

[Quarky00]

then google "oxidation of nitrite in water and/or air" and image search it for fuck sake.

I have googled that. I don't think you have checked that suggestion... We have been discussing nitrite solution reactions for quite a long time.

highlight this for people who're getting it preemptively and then storing it for long periods of time before use.

Highlighting what? You said requires UV and water, cool, but we store it closed in dark place. So what's the point. SN is repacked several times in factories trucks and containers. It does not go bad just like that.

to store a substance like this improperly

Like what improperly? How did I suggest to store it ? ......


------------------

Mine arrived with some clumps, does it mean it's no longer good?

Listen folks , SN clamping has been mentioned many times before . Use the search option . Clamping is ok .

SN Clumping Search Results

 

[Mustkeyknow]

It's hygroscopic, so it's not surprising to have some lumps - I'm sure it's fine. What's it in? A tub or a packet? If you want to switch containers then do so but just don't keep it open or keep opening/closing it.

It's in a tub, I haven't opened it yet as i don't want it to go spoiled. I just received it yesterday I would assume it doesn't go bad just like that.

 

[Defenestrator]

It's in a tub, I haven't opened it yet as i don't want it to go spoiled. I just received it yesterday I would assume it doesn't go bad just like that.

Should be fine then.