Help Shallow-Water Blackout with Weights?

[SomewhatLoved]

I plan to CTB by SWB (shallow-water blackout).

I'm studying paramedicine so I have a fair amount of knowledge related to airways/asphyxia, and I think that if you can effectively prevent access to oxygen after reaching unconsciousness, it seems like a peaceful and painless method of dying, at least for me as a former swimmer. from what I understand a lot of people here seem to agree that asphyxiation is more reliable than other methods like multiple-overdose, poisoning, hanging, or self-inflicted bleeding. But the only thing I'm having some trouble with is trying to figure out a way that could force my body to sink because if I were to float I might wake back up and drown painfully from exhaustion (I plan to do this in a river in my city) without first blacking out, or I might endure a near-drown and be left with hypoxic brain damage.

I've seen some other threads discuss padlocking a heavy bag to oneself or using a backpack, but I'm wondering if there's any evidence of this working and/or examples of weights being used in any other CTB method effectively?

Thanks

 

[Dying Knight]

10 kg dumbbell tied to a leg with a rope should be more than enough unless the speed of water is very high or you wear a clothes that holds a lot of air. In case of drowning in a pool without a flaw, such as bathtub or lake, an additional weight shouldn't be necessary. Diving with additional weights makes it harder to inhale asphyxiant gases right before drowning in order to reduce the time before SWB.

 

[MatthieuFrederickW]

I was thinking a backpack full of rocks and bricks should suffice for this method. I just need to figure out how to bypass or deal with the hypercapnic alarm response. Hyperventilating can make it easier I assume

I plan to CTB by SWB (shallow-water blackout).

I'm studying paramedicine so I have a fair amount of knowledge related to airways/asphyxia, and I think that if you can effectively prevent access to oxygen after reaching unconsciousness, it seems like a peaceful and painless method of dying, at least for me as a former swimmer. from what I understand a lot of people here seem to agree that asphyxiation is more reliable than other methods like multiple-overdose, poisoning, hanging, or self-inflicted bleeding. But the only thing I'm having some trouble with is trying to figure out a way that could force my body to sink because if I were to float I might wake back up and drown painfully from exhaustion (I plan to do this in a river in my city) without first blacking out, or I might endure a near-drown and be left with hypoxic brain damage.

I've seen some other threads discuss padlocking a heavy bag to oneself or using a backpack, but I'm wondering if there's any evidence of this working and/or examples of weights being used in any other CTB method effectively?

Thanks

10 kg dumbbell tied to a leg with a rope should be more than enough unless the speed of water is very high or you wear a clothes that holds a lot of air. In case of drowning in a pool without a flaw, such as bathtub or lake, an additional weight shouldn't be necessary. Diving with additional weights makes it harder to inhale asphyxiant gases right before drowning in order to reduce the time before SWB.

You both seem quite knowledgeable with this stuff. I trust any advice you have to give.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

I was thinking a backpack full of rocks and bricks should suffice for this method. I just need to figure out how to bypass or deal with the hypercapnic alarm response. Hyperventilating can make it easier I assume


You both seem quite knowledgeable with this stuff. I trust any advice you have to give.

Hypercapnic alarm shouldn't be too hard to circumvent. I'll link to a graph here, essentially as long as you hyperventilate sufficiently and get face-down in the water before your brain can "reoxygenate" itself, you're good to go because cell death follows closely with syncope/hypoxic fainting. At least from my understanding though, the main issue seems to be preventing reoxygenation (which is what I'm sort of trying to figure out with this thread). My plan so far is to use weights tied to the front of my body so my centre of gravity keeps me face down, and to hopefully sink to prevent me from being seen and someone calling EMS/fire rescue. I live near a river that drops off in depth pretty quickly, so what I plan on doing is squatting in the river at a depth where I'm nearly submerged, facing away from the beach, hyperventilating and then standing up to force my BP to drop and cause myself to pass out (you can also use the "blowing on thumb" method to aid in this). Hopefully at that point, since I would be standing knee-deep in rushing water with a weighted device strapped to my chest, I would fall forward and sink into deeper water. But who knows, something could go wrong so I'm gonna try and figure that out in the meantime of waiting for next summer when the water's warmer.

 

[StandardOtter]

what I plan on doing is squatting in the river at a depth where I'm nearly submerged, facing away from the beach, hyperventilating and then standing up to force my BP to drop and cause myself to pass out (you can also use the "blowing on thumb" method to aid in this).

You say you're studying paramedicine so do you know something I don't? From what I understand your method for blacking out is completely unrelated to the recommended SWB method and the graph you posted. Your method works by temporarily restricting bloodflow to the brain and will presumably result in regaining consciousness as soon as bloodflow resumes. I think for SWB you really need to patiently hold your breath until you run out of oxygen in your circulatory system as a whole, as per the graph you posted.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

You say you're studying paramedicine so do you know something I don't? From what I understand your method for blacking out is completely unrelated to the recommended SWB method and the graph you posted. Your method works by temporarily restricting bloodflow to the brain and will presumably result in regaining consciousness as soon as bloodflow resumes. I think for SWB you really need to patiently hold your breath until you run out of oxygen in your circulatory system as a whole, as per the graph you posted.

Honestly dropping your BP to pass out is more of a QOL thing for me. If you hyperventilate adequately, it shouldn't really matter and yeah you could just patiently hold your breath, but I find that the step of holding your breath is the most stressful because (at least to me) it sort of is the part where you "go through with it", and causing fainting to accelerate the rest of the process just seems better to me, assuming you have practised and are sure of your ability to hyperventilate enough. I've backed out or had instincts kick in in the past, and I just feel like this would probably help mitigate that, but to each their own.

 

[MatthieuFrederickW]

Hypercapnic alarm shouldn't be too hard to circumvent. I'll link to a graph here, essentially as long as you hyperventilate sufficiently and get face-down in the water before your brain can "reoxygenate" itself, you're good to go because cell death follows closely with syncope/hypoxic fainting. At least from my understanding though, the main issue seems to be preventing reoxygenation (which is what I'm sort of trying to figure out with this thread). My plan so far is to use weights tied to the front of my body so my centre of gravity keeps me face down, and to hopefully sink to prevent me from being seen and someone calling EMS/fire rescue. I live near a river that drops off in depth pretty quickly, so what I plan on doing is squatting in the river at a depth where I'm nearly submerged, facing away from the beach, hyperventilating and then standing up to force my BP to drop and cause myself to pass out (you can also use the "blowing on thumb" method to aid in this). Hopefully at that point, since I would be standing knee-deep in rushing water with a weighted device strapped to my chest, I would fall forward and sink into deeper water. But who knows, something could go wrong so I'm gonna try and figure that out in the meantime of waiting for next summer when the water's warmer.

Sounds like a plan that could work! Hopefully this works out for you. Thank you for reply.

 

[StandardOtter]

Honestly dropping your BP to pass out is more of a QOL thing for me. If you hyperventilate adequately, it shouldn't really matter and yeah you could just patiently hold your breath, but I find that the step of holding your breath is the most stressful because (at least to me) it sort of is the part where you "go through with it", and causing fainting to accelerate the rest of the process just seems better to me, assuming you have practised and are sure of your ability to hyperventilate enough. I've backed out or had instincts kick in in the past, and I just feel like this would probably help mitigate that, but to each their own.

We're on the same page about the quality of life thing, but I don't think your approach is actually going to keep you unconscious. As I said, the method you're describing works by temporarily disrupting blood flow to the brain. You will lose consciousness within seconds, then wake up again seconds later when blood flow resumes. If you've successfully weighted yourself face down in the water, you'll wake breathing water having created exactly the situation you're trying to avoid.

Both methods superficially involve hyperventilation followed by a breath hold, but the mechanisms by which they work are very different and they cannot be assumed to be interchangeable.