Discussion Saying goodbye to a 5 year old

[Wreck-it-Riley]

I have a 5 year old daughter and my main letter is going to be addressed to her. It will explain everything for everyone but it has to be for her specifically. Her mother will not let me see or talk to her. She has a therapist already at 5 because of me. Nobody will talk to and i can't even hear about how she is doing.

So my question is, what would you say to your child? What would you want to hear as a child? If you grew up with a suicidal parent, how was that, what did they say? Is there anything you think she needs to know i might leave out?

 

[Jean4]

I don't have kids.... but maybe filming a video do your baby will remember what you look like?

I would stress it isn't your baby's fault. Say how proud you are of your daughter and you will always be with her.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

I have a 5 year old daughter and my main letter is going to be addressed to her. It will explain everything for everyone but it has to be for her specifically. Her mother will not let me see or talk to her. She has a therapist already at 5 because of me. Nobody will talk to and i can't even hear about how she is doing.

So my question is, what would you say to your child? What would you want to hear as a child? If you grew up with a suicidal parent, how was that, what did they say? Is there anything you think she needs to know i might leave out?

fucking hell mate, fucking hell this is harsh, why are you not allowed to see your own child can I ask?

 

[WhiteDespair]

That's not a thing a 5 year old should ever get. That's a 16-18 year old, your mother wanted you to have this to let you know how much she loved you even though she was fucked up, sort of thing.

 

[noctiva]

I cannot answer your question, about what to write to a 5 year old, I'm sorry. I hear your pain though, that you want your child to know that you love her and that your decision has nothing to do with her.
I want to tell you one story though: My friends mom killed herself when he was 11. She wrote him a letter, of course, and he has read it a million times, he can quote it, and when he misses her, he actually does. The words give him comfort and your child will always carry them with her. What my friend has not gotten, is closure. He once said something to me that really made me think: He said that he loves his mom and that he loves her letter, but he doesn't understand.
His letter was addressed at an 11 year old boy, at the cognitive abilities and the limited horizon of an 11 year old boy. She did not take into account that he would one day be an adult. And at that point I swore to myself that, if I had a kid, I'd write to that kid at the age when I die, and a second letter for later, to the adult I hope s/he becomes, where I explain more, as you would towards an adult. I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense. Point is: write two letters. One age appropriate one, one for the adult your child will become with adult logic and adult explanations.

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

I cannot answer your question, about what to write to a 5 year old, I'm sorry. I hear your pain though, that you want your child to know that you love her and that your decision has nothing to do with her.
I want to tell you one story though: My friends mom killed herself when he was 11. She wrote him a letter, of course, and he has read it a million times, he can quote it, and when he misses her, he actually does. The words give him comfort and your child will always carry them with her. What my friend has not gotten, is closure. He once said something to me that really made me think: He said that he loves his mom and that he loves her letter, but he doesn't understand.
His letter was addressed at an 11 year old boy, at the cognitive abilities and the limited horizon of an 11 year old boy. She did not take into account that he would one day be an adult. And at that point I swore to myself that, if I had a kid, I'd write to that kid at the age when I die, and a second letter for later, to the adult I hope s/he becomes, where I explain more, as you would towards an adult. I don't know if what I'm saying makes sense. Point is: write two letters. One age appropriate one, one for the adult your child will become with adult logic and adult explanations.

I never thought about that. the few things i have writen as builder ideas are all very 5 year old worded.

I am also making it a point not to say anything bad about her other mom. She doesnt need to hate the one she has left because of how she treats me. 10 years of marriage had to mean something right?

fucking hell mate, fucking hell this is harsh, why are you not allowed to see your own child can I ask?

We broke up because a friend outed me as transgender. I had mentioned seeing a psychologist to work on gender stuff, but i didnt know if i wanted it or not. She very violently over reacted. It put me in the hospital. Kinda said fuck it and went for it after that, already lost my wife and kid right? We had started talking again and even being slightly friendly. And then at the end of April i asked to have motherday with them. The fallout was horrible. havent heard a word from anyone in almost 7 months. their lawyers call me though, she has been trying to take away my visitation rights, even though she isnt letting me see her anyway.

 

[SoyImbecilaburrido]

My mother buy me books letters, what can i say
A gift for a son she gives me

 

[noctiva]

I never thought about that. the few things i have writen as builder ideas are all very 5 year old worded.

I am also making it a point not to say anything bad about her other mom. She doesnt need to hate the one she has left because of how she treats me. 10 years of marriage had to mean something right?

I think you do need your ideas that are very 5 year old worded, she does need some kind of support from you to understand at the point you die. Don't discard that, I'm sure you are doing a wonderful job expressing your love for her! Just maybe write to her as well for when she is older. It's not easy to lose a parent, but she is only 5, the letter will still mean the world to her when she is 25/ 45/ 65, but her horizon will broaden and her intellect will develop, so she will have questions at that point that a letter to a 5 year old really cannot cover sufficiently. Maybe try to help her future self to understand, too.

I agree, there's no point to try to make her other mother look bad, in either letter. She will only have one parent left she can then cling to for comfort and understanding, so driving a wedge between the two when you ctb on top of that doesn't seem fair. She loses one parent, she doesn't need the additional feeling of suspicion towards the other parent causing your death, that would make her feel very lonely I imagine.

Edit: Spelling and grammar, I'm sorry for my non-native English speaker skills :/

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

I think you do need your ideas that are very 5 year old worded, she does need some kind of support from you to understand at the point you die. Don't discard that, I'm sure you are doing a wonderful job expressing your love for her! Just maybe write to her as well for when she is older. It's not easy to lose a parent, but she is only 5, the letter will still mean the world to her when she is 25/ 45/ 65, but her horizon will broaden and her intellect will develop, so she will have questions at that point that a letter to a 5 year old really cannot cover sufficiently. Maybe try to help her future self to understand, too.

I agree, there's no point to try to make her other mother look bad, in either letter. She will only have one parent left she can then cling to for comfort and understanding, so driving a wedge between the two when you ctb on top of that doesn't seem fair. She loses one parent, she doesn't need the additional feeling of suspicion towards the other parent causing your death, that would make her feel very lonely I imagine.

Edit: Spelling and grammar, I'm sorry for my non-native English speaker skills :/

I never would have guessed you were not native to English :) my typing is horrible unless i take my time. verbally i sound way smarter than i am lol.

I did mean i should write two letters. The ideas will still be the same, just more elaborate detailing and intellectual wording. My concern is, who will give the letter to her? the other parent will burn it, and nobody else is really an option. fml lol

 

[noctiva]

Hm, I don't know, can you keep it with a lawyer who gives it to her? Or are there mailing services that will be able to hold a letter for 10 years? What about your partner? Does she already have an Email address? I don't know some crazy parents register them at the point of birth to make sure their kid gets their name without some number combination.
Has anyone looked into that? Usually we only talk about sending a delayed Email or text, delayed by maximum a day. Answers very welcome, I'd also like to know please!

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

Some lawyers offices will do it, but i cant tell them im about to die and need the letter sent after my death. probably charge me an arm and a leg too. not that i would object, i signed my organ donor card ;)

My partner will be devistated with my death, and has issues with their own father leaving at 5. he will probably not want to, and i dont know how i would ask.

Maybe if i do a couple of the options. even if she gets 3-4 identical letters, i can explain within that i did it to ensure she got them.

 

[noctiva]

Maybe if i do a couple of the options. even if she gets 3-4 identical letters, i can explain within that i did it to ensure she got them.

That is a brilliant idea, even if she gets the same letter 5 times, she will KNOW that she was that important to you that you really wanted her to have it. It will reaffirm your love for her. Sorry, I totally love that idea!

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

I like it too. Frustrating because i want to do this right, but also feeling desperate to end this war. now im gonna have to look into lawyers and call around hehe/

 

[NoDream]

Did i understand correctly; she denies you to see your kid because you are transgender?

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

Did i understand correctly; she denies you to see your kid because you are transgender?

There are two sides to everything. Her public side is that i am mentally unstable and cut myself, so my daughter is not safe with me. I am wiccan, and because my belief system includes demons, i am a danger. neither of these are remotely true and have been around since long before we had the kid.

My side is that she is a rotten twat and is furious that i want to be called mom just once in my life. My beliefs never bugged her before, and she has known i have demon issues since we were 14. And i was cutting for 3 years before she left, and she never noticed. Daily sex with full body shown and she never asked how i always had open cuts in one area of my arms.

 

[k75]

The important thing about the letter is that if you're writing to her, it needs to be about her, not you. A thing I've seen people do is try to write a suicide note to their kids, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. Children (even teenagers) don't need to know things like that and it could be more damaging than anything. If you really must, I like the idea of more than one letter, with one intended for when she is grown up and can handle that information.

A better idea is to just tell her things you wish you could say directly to her. Tell her you love her and describe how much. Tell her it's not her fault. That you'll always love her. That you're proud of her. Describe memories you have of her and things like that that only you could know and say. Anything good that you would like to preserve for her. That's the kind of stuff that will be really valuable and that she'll probably wish for as she grows up.

 

[NoDream]

This is really sad and i get so f*cking mad when i hear about how the transgender are treated. My son is also trans FTM so ive heard the most insane things, cant even think about it, anxiety and rage ......

To your question, write a letter were you are totally sincere and ask a lawyer to hand it to her when she is 14-15. At that age she still has empathy and enough adult to understand.

 

[Mloureiro]

That's not a thing a 5 year old should ever get. That's a 16-18 year old, your mother wanted you to have this to let you know how much she loved you even though she was fucked up, sort of thing.

And even so, you still think what harm will I be doing to this children? 14 and 19? They still need guidance, they keep me here....

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

And i have to send it to her. even at 5 she needs to know i love her and care, but also that i am gone, and what my beliefs say comes after. Her family will tell her 1000 stories that make them come off scott free. nobody will tell her mine. and if she grows up thinking im trash and was a danger to her, as i know she is already told. why write an adult letter? she will dismiss it all as lies if she has been told one thing already for years.

 

[WhiteDespair]

And even so, you still think what harm will I be doing to this children? 14 and 19? They still need guidance, they keep me here....

There is no good time. The only time you shoot for is the one that does the least damage. Older is better in that regard.

And i have to send it to her. even at 5 she needs to know i love her and care, but also that i am gone, and what my beliefs say comes after. Her family will tell her 1000 stories that make them come off scott free. nobody will tell her mine. and if she grows up thinking im trash and was a danger to her, as i know she is already told. why write an adult letter? she will dismiss it all as lies if she has been told one thing already for years.

Write 2. One for 5 year old and one for 18 year old.

 

[Morphinekiss]

My sister was 5 when our brother killed himself. I remember our parents telling her that God needed an angel for a special job, and only he could do it. Such a bullshit line but it really helped her. I wouldn't know how you could convey that to her.

and I like the idea of writing two letters. One for now and one for when she's old enough to understand more about life. That's how I was given my brother's letters.

 

[Jean4]

There are two sides to everything. Her public side is that i am mentally unstable and cut myself, so my daughter is not safe with me. I am wiccan, and because my belief system includes demons, i am a danger. neither of these are remotely true and have been around since long before we had the kid.

My side is that she is a rotten twat and is furious that i want to be called mom just once in my life. My beliefs never bugged her before, and she has known i have demon issues since we were 14. And i was cutting for 3 years before she left, and she never noticed. Daily sex with full body shown and she never asked how i always had open cuts in one area of my arms.

In my younger years I was a third degree Gardnerian. Demons?

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

Choronzon.

12 years old, Incident with an older kid who took us to a family home AWOL to fuck with an Ouija board. She believed it was her master. She was told by the board to kill the person across from her and it was me and this other boy. Without hesitating she leaped over the table at us and grabbed him. She bit at his neck and blood was everywhere. I ran as fast and as far as they could, they found me 10K out of town a few hours later. She killed herself too. My only scar is a small triangle on my pinky finger. I don't remember how it got there but it has never faded in 15 years.

And he has been following me ever since. Anyone i meet in life suddenly starts to get sick more, and have random issues. Financial, vehicle problems, relationships dissolve. Its been horrible. I told this to my therapist and she basically said she cant help me if i think my issues are from a demon and not just BPD and trauma. I went strict atheist for a while after but gradually found my craft again. Have had the thought of offing myself up when i go but i feel so worthless even the gods don't want me.

 

[Soul]

My mother committed suicide when I was two months old. If she had left messages for me - letters, videos, anything - it would have been wonderful, as if I had a mother who thought about me and not just a mother-shaped wound in my life.

Write/record as much as you can for her. Let her see you move, sing to her, talk to her while filming a walk with her. You love her and it's not her fault or failing that led to your choices. You love her always x

 

[Wreck-it-Riley]

My mother committed suicide when I was two months old. If she had left messages for me - letters, videos, anything - it would have been wonderful, as if I had a mother who thought about me and not just a mother-shaped wound in my life.

Write/record as much as you can for her. Let her see you move, sing to her, talk to her while filming a walk with her. You love her and it's not her fault or failing that led to your choices. You love her always x

This really spoke to me. She deserves a happy mom, not a piece of paper. Unfortunately i dont think that will ever happen. Now i can only do my best.

I have a lot of fears with video. I am trans and i think of things like my voice and appearance. I would imagine she has a different picture of me in her head and of how i sound and act. Words, she can pretend im not crying. Read it in any way she needs. Carry me in her pocket, forever. video formats change. Paper can be copied and protected.

Another question. My hand writing is absolutely horrible. my hands were run over as a kid, and writing physically hurts. I have been hand writing the notes thus far, but its getting long and after revisions im thinking of typing it. What would matter to you more, a tear stained, hand written note? Or a legible typed out letter? Maybe i should get an old school type writer./

 

[Soul]

This really spoke to me. She deserves a happy mom, not a piece of paper. Unfortunately i dont think that will ever happen. Now i can only do my best.

I have a lot of fears with video. I am trans and i think of things like my voice and appearance. I would imagine she has a different picture of me in her head and of how i sound and act. Words, she can pretend im not crying. Read it in any way she needs. Carry me in her pocket, forever. video formats change. Paper can be copied and protected.

Another question. My hand writing is absolutely horrible. my hands were run over as a kid, and writing physically hurts. I have been hand writing the notes thus far, but its getting long and after revisions im thinking of typing it. What would matter to you more, a tear stained, hand written note? Or a legible typed out letter? Maybe i should get an old school type writer./

You can leave both forms of the notes for her, right? the handwritten part as far as you've already written it, and a rewrite on the computer?

I hope you'll reconsider recordings. I have no memory of my mother at all, so my case is a bit different, but it would mean so very much to me even now to have a glimpse of how she moved and even a little bite of her voice. If you're concerned about how your appearance could conflict with her images of you, maybe save the films of yourself to be delivered when she's a bit older and ready to understand. Meanwhile you can record your voice telling her stories, singing to her, playing your favourite music, and film your viewpoint as you take her on some outings (parks, musems, your flat, a trip to the grocery store).

I hope you see what I mean. It would mean so much. x

 

[noctiva]

I think you definitely need the handwritten one, with the tears and the stains. For multiple reasons. Your character is in the handwritten one, you tears are in indicator of how hard it was and how much you loved her. Secondly, it's a question of protecting your loved ones. Handwritten notes show that you decided to commit suicide, that you planned it and carried it out, and not that someone killed you and placed a note next to you. I don't think they'll implicate a 5 year old, but you have other loved ones, too.
I had a lecture yesterday on suicide in my country by the police, they said that 99.5% of suicide cases get an autopsy, no matter what, to ensure that it was truly suicide and nothing else. They also mentioned handwritten notes are checked against other samples of handwriting found in your home, such as shopping lists or whatever they can get their hands on. So to protect your loved ones, write by hand, leave some shopping lists lying around as well.
I have done it for my will that I've handwritten it AND typed it, my handwriting isn't the best. For my loved ones.. well, they have to struggle through, they know my handwriting and so far they've always managed.
I wish you luck, and I do like the idea of the video, maybe at least one audio recording if you don't want to have visual? Maybe even something as mundane as going outside and .. I don't know, filming the dogs running around with you commenting in the background, just so she has the voice, something you are talking about to her. I know I'll be watching the videos my love send me of hotel rooms he has been to when I CTB. When he went abroad, he'd make video snippets of what the hotel room looks like, simply 'there's the bed, there's the tv, I'll be sleeping there and hey, they have a desk, let me show you one really cool thing they have in the bathroom...' And then he'd stand in front of a mirror, waving at me saying his and saying that he was okay and that he missed us. It's a random, weird video, but he is there, in it, I can see him, I can hear him, I can remember him. Maybe something like this would already be sufficient. You don't necessarily need to point the camera at you and read your words to her.

 

[Daniela]

This movie is about a woman who, after being diagnosed with inoperable cancer, records tapes for her 2 little daughters to listen to every year for their birthday . When she finishes recording them, she gives them to her doctor and asks him to keep them until the time is right "because [my husband] would lose them or give them to the girls all at once..."
Though at the end of the movie, she records something for her husband, too.

 

[kkatt]

When addressing a young child,NEVER lie in any way. Kids are far more capable of handling the truth than adults. They need someone to whom they can ask questions but don't understimate a child's ability to comprehend. Their heads have not been filled with the concepts and notions of other people who have developed a belief system through their lifetime of experiences. They are,to an extent,a blank page.
But maybe you can tqalk about death in general in advanc4e? Adults convey it as some mysterious and terrifying thing. Children can make up their own ideas

 

[LittleJem]

Some lawyers offices will do it, but i cant tell them im about to die and need the letter sent after my death. probably charge me an arm and a leg too. not that i would object, i signed my organ donor card ;)

My partner will be devistated with my death, and has issues with their own father leaving at 5. he will probably not want to, and i dont know how i would ask.

Maybe if i do a couple of the options. even if she gets 3-4 identical letters, i can explain within that i did it to ensure she got them.

Can you include letters with your will?