Discussion SaSu Mods Don't Want You to CTB Peacefully

[VoidBlessed]

The mods on this site don't support your right to die peacefully, and you deserve to know that.

A month ago, I posted about using a new type of meditation to overcome SI. The mods deleted that post within an hour with the note "Sorry, but people need to be ready for suicide themselves, not emotionally coached on forcing themselves to do it."

I appealed, because this site is full of tips for overcoming SI already, and it's also full of people who desperately wish they could overcome their SI. I'm one of those people, so when I found a technique that worked for me, I knew I had to share it with everyone else in the same situation.

This is the response I got:

According to the mods, my post was deleted because it would have made CTB easier for people who desperately want to, but still can't. That's right: they don't want it to be too easy. The mods want you scared, in pain, and they'll censor anything that might make dying just a little easier for someone. They don't believe you deserve an inch of compassion even after a lifetime of suffering.

Censoring meditation techniques for overcoming SI doesn't even make sense. Lots of threads talk about chemical solutions like benzos or weed - how is meditation a "trick" but chemicals aren't? What about people who don't have access to them?

The mods talk a big game about being pro-choice, but at the end of the day they have their own agenda just like the pro-life crowd does. The irony of running a suicide forum while deliberately making suicide more difficult is sickening. They do not support your right to die peacefully, free of worry and fear.

 

[behindtheveil]

Can you please tell me how to reduce it? If you'd like we can do it in private conversation. It is really needed and vital for the next step. Thank you.

 

[itsallogrenow]

Would you be able to do DM me the info if you still have it saved anywhere?

Im curious as to why its been removed because, like you said, there have been posts and comments about other ways to reduce SI

 

[dragonofenvy]

I'm very curious to hear both sides. Surely there's more to it than this.

 

[AnxietyHangover]

I've been in the moderation team for a little while and your statement has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard during my time here, and it's been some years. You tried to post weird meditation shit that probably isn't much more than some convoluted fantasy and feed it to vulnerable, desperate people… Please

 

[cait_sith]

Can you dm it to me too? Is it a special kind of meditation?

 

[VoidBlessed]

I'm very curious to hear both sides. Surely there's more to it than this.

For transparency, this is the appeal I sent:

 

[eggsausagerice]

According to the mods, my post was deleted because it would have made CTB easier for people who desperately want to, but still can't. That's right: they don't want it to be too easy. The mods want you scared, in pain, and they'll censor anything that might make dying just a little easier for someone. They don't believe you deserve an inch of compassion even after a lifetime of suffering.

i feel like you're just trying to demonize the mods, who do a lot of work to avoid pro-death stuff from spreading on the forum. there's a line between being pro-choice and trying to make random people want to kill themselves. i think your post title sounds provocative on purpose, when you could've worded it more neutrally. what is your meditation supposed to be? you need to expand on it more. i think that there was a reason that it wasn't allowed to be posted.this post just feels like you trying to advertise your meditation after it got taken down.

 

[VoidBlessed]

i feel like you're just trying to demonize the mods, who do a lot of work to avoid pro-death stuff from spreading on the forum. there's a line between being pro-choice and trying to make random people want to kill themselves. i think your post title sounds inflammatory on pupose, when you could've worded it more neutrally. what is your meditation supposed to be? you need to expand on it more. i think that there was a reason that it wasn't allowed to be posted. this post just feels like you trying to advertise your meditation after your post was deleted.

That's not the purpose of this post at all. I thought this forum would be a haven for people like me, who desperately want to die but their fear won't let them. I had been experimenting with meditating about suicide to lessen my own anxiety, and found that it worked for me. All I wanted to to was share what I found with people in a similar boat.

This post isn't about advertising either. I haven't described this meditation anywhere, or promised to tell anyone in DM's. This is about letting everyone on this site know that this forum isn't what we thought it was.

 

[Kayla]

I agree with the mods on this one

 

[Fadenself00]

Censoring meditation techniques for overcoming SI doesn't even make sense. Lots of threads talk about chemical solutions like benzos or weed - how is meditation a "trick" but chemicals aren't? What about people who don't have access to them?

while i don't know the content of the deleted post, and if there was more to this, I do really have to agree with OP here, especially in regards to the SN method having anti-anxiety substances recommended in many "established" resources.

i do also agree though that OPs wording against the mods is a bit too fierce/attacking. Moderating this place is quite a bit of an ethical challenge I'd assume

 

[VoidBlessed]

I've been in the moderation team for a little while and your statement has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard during my time here, and it's been some years. You tried to post weird meditation shit that probably isn't much more than some convoluted fantasy and feed it to vulnerable, desperate people… Please

I'm sorry your experiences have made you so suspicious of other people, and I'm sorry too you don't think meditation is more than a fantasy. But I would gain absolutely nothing from hawking a fantasy to strangers on the internet. I was only trying to help people in a situation like mine.

 

[dragonofenvy]

I agree with the mods on this one

Can you explain why to me? I feel like I'm missing something. OP mentions tons of threads about overcoming SI and he's right. I've seen posts about using xanax or weed etc. and I don't see how meditation is any different. If meditation is forcing someone to kill themselves, why would drug use not be? Either all of it should be allowed, or none of it should be. Meditation is infinitely better than using drugs, so why is meditation demonized? A lot of people are disagreeing with OP, but not saying why and, as I've said, I feel like there's something I'm not noticing.

 

[Kayla]

Can you explain why to me? I feel like I'm missing something. OP mentions tons of threads about overcoming SI and he's right. I've seen posts about using xanax or weed etc. and I don't see how meditation is any different. If meditation is forcing someone to kill themselves, why would drug use not be? Either all of it should be allowed, or none of it should be. Meditation is infinitely better than using drugs, so why is meditation demonized? A lot of people are disagreeing with OP, but not saying why and, as I've said, I feel like there's something I'm not noticing.

Because if you have to do that much to ease SI then you aren't entirely ready to complete the act, and you're leaving room for regrets. At the end of the day, the mods don't want it on this site; they have their reasons, and they have the right to remove it.

 

[behindtheveil]

I kind of do believe in meditation and its benefits. Before my last failed attempt, I was extremely nervous and simply concentration on my breaths helped me lose some anxiety. But I tell you, that SI is for real. And if anything helps to overcome it, I am all hands in.
And I'm sure there must have been some misunderstanding in the communicae between you and the mods that somehow lead to this. But I do not doubt either of your motives. Let's swipe the past under the carpet and start fresh. Afterall, who else we've got if not each other.

 

[eggsausagerice]

If meditation is forcing someone to kill themselves, why would drug use not be?

a person chooses to buy a drug or drink alcohol while reading about someone's meditation technique is coercive because someone needs to explain the meditation to them. it's much different from the megathreads about known methods or talking about people's perspective on si, it's attempting to give advice to someone on how to be "more suicidal". si is demonized, but it's ultimately someone's will that makes them want to commit suicide rather than survival instinct itself. overall the post feels more like airing dirty laundry to the public instead of a productive discussion, because it was started on the basis that mods are hostile and out to get members.

 

[metfan647]

I don't have enough faith in the 'power' or efficacy of meditation so I can't imagine how detrimental your post could have been.

I wouldn't get too entrenched in proving you're right. The website moderators may feel they'e on a bit of a tightrope sometimes with pressure to catch out bad actors etc. It's not an easy call to make. I've had my differences with decisions made by moderators before but we ought to remember they are using this site too - they have their own shit they're dealing with.

Mod was apologetic and diplomatic. Maybe just one to let go?

 

[capi]

Tbf i understand the mods, they are trying their best with gray areas, but at the same time why are they letting main posts up about overcoming si? They should make a clarification post to prevent these misunderstandings. The rules are a bit vague about these things.

 

[UserFromNowhere]

I may be misremembering, but if I recall correctly, the post included statements like "reflect on why you want to die" rather than something more neutral like "reflect on whether you want to die."

 

[SASU-KE]

You have to give them leeway in these situations. Like others have said, it's a grey area. Can't really fault them.

 

[dragonofenvy]

a person chooses to buy a drug or drink alcohol while reading about someone's meditation technique is coercive because someone needs to explain the meditation to them. it's much different from the megathreads about known methods or talking about people's perspective on si, it's attempting to give advice to someone on how to be "more suicidal".

Because if you have to do that much to ease SI then you aren't entirely ready to complete the act, and you're leaving room for regrets. At the end of the day, the mods don't want it on this site; they have their reasons, and they have the right to remove it.

Thank you both. I can't help but empathize with OP a bit though. If I had a way to get rid of my SI I'd take it. Though I understand it is against the rules that have been set in place. I still don't fully understand. Is telling people to buy drugs to overcome SI not coercion? Is someone choosing to meditate not their own choice?

Or am I just being stupid and overthinking this?

Honestly OP, I think you're better off letting this one go. The mods were nice enough in their explanation to you, and because we can't see your old post we can't judge it. I'm going to trust their judgement with it. If they felt it needed to be removed, then so be it.

 

[Fadenself00]

Can you explain why to me? I feel like I'm missing something. OP mentions tons of threads about overcoming SI and he's right. I've seen posts about using xanax or weed etc. and I don't see how meditation is any different. If meditation is forcing someone to kill themselves, why would drug use not be? Either all of it should be allowed, or none of it should be. Meditation is infinitely better than using drugs, so why is meditation demonized? A lot of people are disagreeing with OP, but not saying why and, as I've said, I feel like there's something I'm not noticing.

I feel very similar.

I've been in the moderation team for a little while and your statement has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard during my time here, and it's been some years. You tried to post weird meditation shit that probably isn't much more than some convoluted fantasy and feed it to vulnerable, desperate people… Please

I also think this argument isn't really one, and more so an opinion about the (quality of the) resource in question.
Also, why "feed it" when people deliberately choose to read whatever here. You could say the same thing for "feeding" information about which anti-anxiety drugs are recommended.
Meditation/reflecting to take your anxiety away, when you already freely decided you want to ctb, and rationally only have the biologically underlined anxiety associated with SI, stopping you. That seems like a fitting resource to share with people in such a context and maybe with an additional disclaimer, imo

 

[eggsausagerice]

Is telling people to buy drugs to overcome SI not coercion? Is someone choosing to meditate not their own choice?

people still choose to go out and buy the drugs/alcohol. it's a choice people make, since a lot of people die sober despite drugs still lowering si. i personally think that trying to give tips and tricks for lowering si like a youtube video still implies that the people looking for ways to lower si are still afraid of dying = aren't ready to ctb. there are some ethical concerns with trying to help people by giving them fuel to kill themselves when they were initially hesitant.

 

[itsallogrenow]

Can you explain why to me? I feel like I'm missing something. OP mentions tons of threads about overcoming SI and he's right. I've seen posts about using xanax or weed etc. and I don't see how meditation is any different. If meditation is forcing someone to kill themselves, why would drug use not be? Either all of it should be allowed, or none of it should be. Meditation is infinitely better than using drugs, so why is meditation demonized? A lot of people are disagreeing with OP, but not saying why and, as I've said, I feel like there's something I'm not noticing.

I feel insane reading this thread.

I agree with you and the arguments against it don't make sense, If OP can't post about meditation as method to reduce SI, then all of the other posts and comments regarding using drugs etc need removing too.

This is assuming there wasn't anything suspicious in the original post though as I haven't read it.

 

[dragonofenvy]

i personally think that trying to give tips and tricks for lowering si like a youtube video still implies that the people looking for ways to lower si are still afraid of dying = aren't ready to ctb. my own opinion on it, anyway.

Have I totally misunderstood what the purpose of this site was? What is the purpose of posting resources about it then? I haven't killed myself because I'm too scared to but that somehow means that I shouldn't be able to take steps to mitigate the fear? Everyone is afraid of dying. It's a natural instinct. If someone helped me with it, I'd be grateful.

So people are gonna go out and buy drugs/alcohol anyways, sure. But we draw the line at YouTube videos and meditation? I don't get it. Is it somehow only okay if people are going to do it anyways? I'm not trying to argue, I just don't understand where you're coming from, but I'm trying to. Idk maybe I can't understand.

If it's morality, for god's sake look at this fucking site. You're going to tell me this is a moral site? Of course this site isn't moral. People here pretend that this site is for everything else besides what it actually is for. Do you see the goodbye threads cheering people on? Yet trying to get rid of SI is bad? Giving people resources on methods is OK? None of it makes sense.

All of it is OK, or none of it is.

 

[metfan647]

people still choose to go out and buy the drugs/alcohol. it's a choice people make, since a lot of people die sober despite drugs still lowering si. i personally think that trying to give tips and tricks for lowering si like a youtube video still implies that the people looking for ways to lower si are still afraid of dying = aren't ready to ctb. there are some ethical concerns with trying to help people by giving them fuel to kill themselves when they were initially hesitant.

Arguably someone needing anti-axiety medication and/or alcohol isn't ready to die. By your logic, giving information pertaining to that would too have 'some ethical concerns'.

 

[VoidBlessed]

Arguably someone needing anti-axiety medication and/or alcohol isn't ready to die. By your logic, giving information pertaining to that would too have 'some ethical concerns'.

This is it exactly. If anyone needing tips to overcome SI isn't "ready" then all tips should be banned. Just like people choose to go out and buy drugs or alcohol, they choose to meditate or not. Like benzos or weed, meditation is just another option to consider and is no different from either.

 

[Fadenself00]

I feel insane reading this thread.

I agree with you and the arguments against it don't make sense, If OP can't post about meditation as method to reduce SI, then all of the other posts and comments regarding using drugs etc need removing too.

This is assuming there wasn't anything suspicious in the original post though as I haven't read it.

i agree. this seems like the much less drastic choice vs. taking a substance (and you dont get your entire personality temorarily changed like with a substance) So all the choices and decisions should be much more 'you' imo... also this is a somewhat philosophical/deeply ethical question about how the brain/free will works I think

 

[metfan647]

Do the moderators have any objection to the meditation post sent via DM? I'd be interested in seeing it.

 

[Dante_]

Dear OP,

Decisions made by mods should not be subject to such response, at all, nor should any discontent be used as a reason to aim vitriol towards the mods for doing what we can for the community.