Sanctioned Suicide and freedom of speech

[Aurora Vanderlux]

I've been on this site for five years now, and over this time, I've witnessed many changes to the forum. Among all the events that have happened here, I consider the most relevant to be the doxxing of the founders and the public resignation of Marquis from the administration.

However, in recent months, censorship attempts have increased alarmingly. I have a theory that there is a large-scale operation underway, possibly involving certain governments, whose goal is to launch a significant attack on this forum. Although they are unlikely to succeed in shutting it down completely, they could leave a deep mark and force us to take measures to counter the situation.

While the idea of amending Section 230 sounds far-fetched, it doesn't mean that other countries can't take drastic measures. The biggest risk comes from Europe, where the European Union imposes increasingly arbitrary restrictions. It wouldn't be surprising if they try to ban VPNs or other tools that protect online privacy. In addition, we face the threat of spies infiltrating the forum, whose purpose is to sabotage the community, as we already saw in the case of a user who exposed certain information on Reddit.

What I am getting at is that, with governments pushing to censor this and other online spaces, freedom of expression could become a battlefield. Those entities that are supposed to protect individual rights are beginning to see the internet as a threat, since opinions, information and audiovisual content can generate repercussions in the real world. This is not very different from the panorama of past decades, when regulatory efforts focused on radio, television and news media, while the internet was a relatively irrelevant territory for governments and organizations.

It is undeniable that this forum is uncomfortable for governments, preachers of morality, pro-life groups and, in general, for anyone who does not share the predominant ideas in our community. The constant attacks we have suffered are proof of this. I wonder how much things will change in the next five years: what laws will be passed? What measures will be implemented? How much pressure will the bureaucracy be able to exert against us?

In any case, I am just another user of this forum, so my analysis may or may not be correct. I would like to know your opinions.

 

[Shadows From Hell]

Even if the government is successful in shutting down this site, it wouldn't be long before another one pops up.

My opinion on them shutting us down should be listed as a violation of free speech. We have our right to speak openly, and freely about anything we want, without possible repercussions from the government. Even though it does seem like that freedom of speech is slowly diminishing.

 

[Aurora Vanderlux]

My opinion on them shutting us down should be listed as a violation of free speech.

It would not be the first time that a government violates individual freedoms for the "well-being of its citizens"

 

[Shadows From Hell]

It would not be the first time that a government violates individual freedoms for the "well-being of its citizens"

And definitely won't be the last. They'll do it every chance they get.

 

[ms.astral_01]

I've been on this site for five years now, and over this time, I've witnessed many changes to the forum. Among all the events that have happened here, I consider the most relevant to be the doxxing of the founders and the public resignation of Marquis from the administration.

However, in recent months, censorship attempts have increased alarmingly. I have a theory that there is a large-scale operation underway, possibly involving certain governments, whose goal is to launch a significant attack on this forum. Although they are unlikely to succeed in shutting it down completely, they could leave a deep mark and force us to take measures to counter the situation.

While the idea of amending Section 230 sounds far-fetched, it doesn't mean that other countries can't take drastic measures. The biggest risk comes from Europe, where the European Union imposes increasingly arbitrary restrictions. It wouldn't be surprising if they try to ban VPNs or other tools that protect online privacy. In addition, we face the threat of spies infiltrating the forum, whose purpose is to sabotage the community, as we already saw in the case of a user who exposed certain information on Reddit.

What I am getting at is that, with governments pushing to censor this and other online spaces, freedom of expression could become a battlefield. Those entities that are supposed to protect individual rights are beginning to see the internet as a threat, since opinions, information and audiovisual content can generate repercussions in the real world. This is not very different from the panorama of past decades, when regulatory efforts focused on radio, television and news media, while the internet was a relatively irrelevant territory for governments and organizations.

It is undeniable that this forum is uncomfortable for governments, preachers of morality, pro-life groups and, in general, for anyone who does not share the predominant ideas in our community. The constant attacks we have suffered are proof of this. I wonder how much things will change in the next five years: what laws will be passed? What measures will be implemented? How much pressure will the bureaucracy be able to exert against us?

In any case, I am just another user of this forum, so my analysis may or may not be correct. I would like to know your opinions.

The people's need for freedom of expression will probably be the main antagonist, at least to the governments. This site is in and of itself not a bad thing. It's just the soup mix of sensationalism and mindset that as an outsider we should have the right to dictate what others do with their lives, whether they like it or not that gives this site the bad rep it has.

In my opinion, I don't think you have too much to worry about. As long as there is a necessity, which there absolutely is in this case, people will find a way to satisfy it. Have you heard of the Silk Road? I think it might be similar to that. Sure, it may have been taken down, but does that mean all activity of online drug trade has ceased completely? No. At most, all it did was shut down a convenient way to access the market.

Do you want my honest opinion? I think this goes beyond SaSu. Until one side yields, and is willing to "hear out a conversation" with the other side (tbh pro-lifers, since we pro-choice people are more often that not receptive) this meaningless war on so called "free speech" will continue.

It is important to note that while the concept of pro life makes some sense; as at the base level, working people who participate in the economy are needed to maintain a country, its preachers are often far too radical and oppressive in their pursuit. This discredits their cause heavily and often causes people like us to dismiss them.

And I won't lie, I've seen some radical pro-choicers as well. We just need to find some sort of happy medium to talk on. Otherwise, we're headed for a world of mutual self destruction.

This is just my analysis and speculation as another member, and I've been on this site far less than you have. You are free to correct me where I may be wrong, and we can discuss it or something.

 

[cme-dme]

The government can try all they want but all they will do is push communities like ours deeper underground. Getting rid of this forum would suck, sure but we all know somebody will step up to make another one. If we have to we could just be Tor only. It's a pointless battle. Governments and advocacy groups will blame anything but the root causes that result in the need for places like this to exist.

 

[OnlyOutcastsMourn]

The goal is to make this website harder to discover, not to truly eliminate it.

This website will be accessible as long as there is a server to host it and a domain name registrar who'll register it - unscrupulous people who will do both.

There is no such thing as absolute free speech. There will always be restrictions on speech to some extent - even the USA has libel and defamation laws - it all comes down to the question of harm and your personal sense of morality. The truth is society generally views this space as immoral, so it will always have a hard time of it.

 

[NonEssential]

If there will be no place to vent my feelings and thoughts, then I'll most likely have to turn these thoughts into actions.

 

[Eternal Illusions]

Part of this depends on where the owners and servers are located.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I suspect you are right. I'm sure they would at least like to close it down.

I wonder how many members would actually be more at risk of suicide if they managed to close the site down. I believe it provides a sense of community for many people here. Sometimes, the only genuine one they have- if they don't feel able to be themselves around others. Or, they live very isolated lives. I wonder if they consider or even care about that. Probably not. They likely just see a place that gives out method information and doesn't oppose suicide with a bunch of flimsy platitudes.

I really hope I'm gone within 5 years. It's sort of sickening envisaging having to linger on and on.

 

[It'sMyLife]

The UK reportedly demands access to encrypted Apple accounts. What it means for US users.

Apple has reportedly been ordered to give the British government full access to view material uploaded to the cloud from around the globe.

www.usatoday.com

And of all of the countries in Europe the UK is turning out to be the worst. Not only did they order Apple to do this but to also be quiet about it which apparently hasn't happened at least. Orwell must've had a crystal ball. If they can force Apple to do this then they could possibly require server owners to block whoever or whatever person or site they say to but I can't see this happening in the US at least for the short term

 

[The_Hunter]

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
—Hanlon's Razor

In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
—Friedrich Nietzche

I've been on this site for five years now, and over this time, I've witnessed many changes to the forum. Among all the events that have happened here, I consider the most relevant to be the doxxing of the founders and the public resignation of Marquis from the administration.

However, in recent months, censorship attempts have increased alarmingly. I have a theory that there is a large-scale operation underway, possibly involving certain governments, whose goal is to launch a significant attack on this forum. Although they are unlikely to succeed in shutting it down completely, they could leave a deep mark and force us to take measures to counter the situation.

The biggest risk comes from Europe, where the European Union imposes increasingly arbitrary restrictions. It wouldn't be surprising if they try to ban VPNs or other tools that protect online privacy. In addition, we face the threat of spies infiltrating the forum, whose purpose is to sabotage the community, as we already saw in the case of a user who exposed certain information on Reddit.

Banning VPNs, would honestly—casting all context to this forum aside—an anti-democratic dictatorial power-grab. It is unjustified to violate the common citizen's right to privacy; even if it enables genuine terror threats—let alone the threat of a small increase in suicide. On a side note. On the figure cited in the NYT article. 500... huh? Compared to the tens of thousands who die by suicide annually. (49.4k in the US.) Punching in a few numbers, one can realize that adding 2 [weekly] deaths to the some-1000 that statistics insinuate (49.4k÷365,×7, = 947), is a negligent amount—bottom line being this: if people truly cared about suicide prevention; they would seek to reform society for improved human life, not attacking the symptom as opposed to the disease. There is scant evidence to prove that thousands are dying by this forum. The sum of every goodbye thread on SaSu (~500, according to NYT), is still merely half of one week in the United States. This is [to me] a sound reason to believe resources are far-better focused on changing society to curb unbearable dissatisfaction, rather than trying to nuke some community that comforts people and undeniably helps the living quality of many many people, very real amounts of which go on to lead better lives & even forgo suicide entirely. All thanks to the power of community.

The only real hope to heal suicide as a society is killing, (and I pick that word intentionally), killing the stigma that infects the mere fact of [suicidal] ideation, and replacing shunning with embrace, and coldness with warmth. Yes, and the wounds of the suffering do not heal in a day either; people still suffer intensely, and possibly in certain cases of causes incurable—but no matter how steep the suffering, a removal of the chains of erasure and fetters of negligence (manifested often in willful ignorance, resulting in the abandonment of people who deserve humanity); would surely, at the very least, do some humans an honest bit of honest good. And that, is something that takes serious perversion to deny.

I do not say that everyone should go kill themselves immediately; rather, I merely hope and dream for people to be able to find shared social comfort in their most foundational of sufferings, in ways that are unfortunately lengthened due to the flaws of the societies we live in. I wish for people to find healing. And I also feel strongly that a hard-military style approach to suicide prevention alienates vast swathes of suicidal people all alongst the spectrum of severity. It may prevent some deaths but it obsfuscates many lives. In that I mean it makes the life of many suicidal individuals, that process of existing and trying to feel alright; so indefensibly obtuse, to the degree in which places like this end up serving a crucial role for healing and recovery (suicide aside), an excellent niche which the vast majority of friends, therapist, and family members—however well meaning!—often remain completely unable to touch. This, is the reality of the situation. This is a honest place where people share their genuine feelings; and in the mere act of this is genuine healing—some comfort and peace, at last; especially for those as bothered as us, who go out of our ways to come here, for the sake of no other reason than to express ourselves whole-heartedly. I can say for sure; as someone who felt... not great this evening, that [foraying] this forum seriously gave me breath today, allowed me to reengage my mind, and honestly just feel a bit more human than I did before. Yes; through mentioning this do I add a whiff of vent to this (mostly) ideological post—but I think it (possibly) relevant enough to be worth touching on.

What I am getting at is that, with governments pushing to censor this and other online spaces, freedom of expression could become a battlefield. Those entities that are supposed to protect individual rights are beginning to see the internet as a threat, since opinions, information and audiovisual content can generate repercussions in the real world. This is not very different from the panorama of past decades, when regulatory efforts focused on radio, television and news media, while the internet was a relatively irrelevant territory for governments and organizations.

A great point... Governments eyeing to incorporate the internet right into the regulated array of all other media, alongside radio, television, etcetera.

The internet is a threat indeed! A threat to all those who seek to stifle expression. As the government of Turkey sought to suppress Wikipedia, and countless other examples of governments attempting to control the internet.

We blow money on repression when we ought to be investing it in reform! Instead of trying to "destroy" the information described as unacceptable, why not attempt to understand the root causes and work to solve the issue from there? Instead of rallying against a site of suicidal expression, why not rally against actual causes of suicide? Like, I don't know, oppressive stigma suppressing people confiding their suicidations to their closest ones. I think, THAT, would be a real start.

It is undeniable that this forum is uncomfortable for governments, preachers of morality, pro-life groups and, in general, for anyone who does not share the predominant ideas in our community. The constant attacks we have suffered are proof of this. I wonder how much things will change in the next five years: what laws will be passed? What measures will be implemented? How much pressure will the bureaucracy be able to exert against us?

In any case, I am just another user of this forum, so my analysis may or may not be correct. I would like to know your opinions.

One may look at all this and say "Everything will be the way it is. The status quo will go on." As in, both for the forum's availability itself—and the issues that perpetuate the presence of this place, and the dissatisfaction of all suicidal people worldwide. I truly do hope that if there is change in any piece of this massive complex state of affairs that everyone is in individually and collectively—anything that would even help a single day—that it might do something, at least. Maybe I tossed that hope out without a base, but it was a thought of mine that came about, so it be.

Anyway.

I do not believe the destruction of this forum would be a good thing, at all. Yes, suicide method compilations would just pop up elsewhere on the web—if there is a will there is way, suicide methods not excluded—but the destruction of all genuinely thought-provoking and frankly lifesaving information on this forum, the disbanding of all wonderfully sharp yet hurt members of this forum; that, to me, is a brutal damage that cannot be undone.

But time has told. And history has shown. That we, we are still here. Here on Sanctioned Suicide. Where we can comfort in each other. Through words, experiences, and our mere presences. This, to me—is something meaningful. Something beautiful. Something of note. A thing human; a phenomenon personal. This is why I post here; and read here, when times feel it right to me. It is real; and in many ways, merely comforting. My words with you all. My words with myself. May this community continue to comfort itself for as long as possible. I am glad I was able to read your words, and yourself mine—this, at least, is a chance we can acknowledge in solidary with. And really, truly, maybe a spark to shine [on], perhaps. These words here.

—Hunter

 

[slowdance]

I wish half the effort put into preventing people from finding painless ways to die was put into making life more bearable. It would be more efficient. But people will throw efficiency right out the door if it gets in the way of their ability to be cruel. They don't care if any of us live or die, they just want the way out to be as painful as possible so they can revel in the misery.

 

[Aurora Vanderlux]

Part of this depends on where the owners and servers are located.

The owner of this site is Mexican and the servers are located in Tuvalu Ulterior

 

[deadgirlwalking]

this is one of the only places i can vent without threats of hospitalization or dismissal/guilt tripping. talking on here genuinely is one of the only places that helps me clears my thoughts and get them out without being threatened. i feel bad for all the europeans who feel the same way i do that might have this website blocked