"Right not to be born" by Giraud : listen that !

[Alucard]

... your opinions ?

 

[woxihuanni]

If I were living in a world where a peaceful exit was a universal right for whatever the fuck reason we want, and if had the means to raise them comfortably, and if I believed it would be helpful to my own happiness, I would have a kid. I know I'd be a wonderful parent.

The world is also poignantly beautiful, and wildly joyful at times.

 

[Alucard]

If I were living in a world where a peaceful exit was a universal right for whatever the fuck reason we want, and if had the means to raise them comfortably, and if I believed it would be helpful to my own happiness, I would have a kid. I know I'd be a wonderful parent.

The world is also poignantly beautiful, and wildly joyful at times.

I totally agree. If a painless right to suicide were introduced, it would allow a "right not to be" and thus would allow to appreciate the luminous part of the world.

Love and beauty of Nature without pain and fear.

 

[LastFlowers]

I totally agree. If a painless right to suicide were introduced, it would allow a "right not to be" and thus would allow to appreciate the luminous part of the world.

Love and beauty of Nature without pain and fear.

My only problem with this is that if that doesn't happen and the child lives a life of pain where they regret their entire existence, they don't have the option to erase it. They only have the option to die. This does not obliterate their time on this earth or how everyone will remember them-which may not be the legacy the deceased wanted to leave behind.

I, for one, wish I had never been born, or at least died before my existence became an involuntary stain. If I can't have control over my life then I don't want anyone else to have control of my memory, or for me to have had any life at all.

If I were living in a world where a peaceful exit was a universal right for whatever the fuck reason we want, and if had the means to raise them comfortably, and if I believed it would be helpful to my own happiness, I would have a kid. I know I'd be a wonderful parent.

The world is also poignantly beautiful, and wildly joyful at times.

Unfortunately being a good parent is not a guarantee for a good life for the child.

 

[woxihuanni]

My only problem with this is that if that doesn't happen and the child lives a life of pain where they regret their entire existence, they don't have the option to erase it. They only have the option to die. This does not obliterate their time on this earth or how everyone will remember them-which may not be the legacy the deceased wanted to leave behind.

I, for one, wish I had never been born, or at least died before my existence became an involuntary stain. If I can't have control over my life then I don't want anyone else to have control of my memory, or for me to have had any life at all.

Unfortunately being a good parent is not a guarantee for a good life for the child.

Just like pro-lifers have a taboo about getting out, this is also a taboo. There can be suffering, so what? It won't be perfect, so what? Once you are dead, you won't be able to care about having been alive.

Just like I have a major difference of thought with pro-lifers, I have major difference with the 'the world is so cruel' thinking in part of the pro-choice community. I lack the cruelty of humans (taking control, torturing), but I have the cruelty of animals (don't care to kill to eat, etc.). I'm happy with this in myself.

The beauty of this world is only truly accessible if one does not deny the animal in oneself.

 

[Alucard]

It is true that one can regret being born, to find that the time one has lived is already too much.

But if a painless right to suicide is at hand, then you can erase everything right away, including memory. Because when I die, there is nothing left, so no more memory either. NOTHINGNESS.

I also think that life has its joys if we can taste them. But this is of course not a reason to condemn someone to live. Life is sometimes a chance, but never a duty.

 

[LastFlowers]

It is true that one can regret being born, to find that the time one has lived is already too much.

But if a painless right to suicide is at hand, then you can erase everything right away, including memory. Because when I die, there is nothing left, so no more memory either. NOTHINGNESS.

I also think that life has its joys if we can taste them. But this is of course not a reason to condemn someone to live. Life is sometimes a chance, but never a duty.

Sorry, I meant our memory that lives on in others. And our time in suffering in this world, it really can't be erased, it can only be ended and our consciousness of it, put to sleep forever.
Kind of like shutting down a computer or even smashing it and tossing it in the bin. You can break it down but you can never truly erase it. Once something existed, it can never not have existed. The pain and lack of joy that happened will never have not happened. And the existence that someone regretted to the point of suicide will continue to be revived in the minds of others, long past the person's decision to take their lives. We just can't have control of things once we are dead, not even the memory the world has of us.

This can be good for those who appreciated their existence and instilled a pleasant or worthwhile memory in others. But it is yet another detriment to those who regretted having been put into existence and were not able to live a life they wanted ingrained into the minds of everyone else who continued on after them.

Imagine your most painful, embarrassing memory. Imagine that being your whole life and the only thing everyone knew about you. Imagine dying to end the pain but your terrible experience outliving you in the memory of other people. That experience being what you were and what you will always have been. Even if you are dead and cannot realize it.

I hope that better underlines where I was coming from.

 

[woxihuanni]

Sorry, I meant our memory that lives on in others. And our time in suffering in this world, it really can't be erased, it can only be ended and our consciousness of it, put to sleep forever.
Kind of like shutting down a computer or even smashing it and tossing it in the bin. You can break it down but you can never truly erase it. Once something existed, it can never not have existed. The pain and lack of joy that happened will never have not happened. And the existence that someone regretted to the point of suicide will continue to be revived in the minds of others, long past the person's decision to take their lives. We just can't have control of things once we are dead, not even the memory the world has of us.

This can be good for those who appreciated their existence and instilled a pleasant or worthwhile memory in others. But it is yet another detriment to those who regretted having been put into existence and were not able to live a life they wanted ingrained into the minds of everyone else who continued on after them.

Imagine your most painful, embarrassing memory. Imagine that being your whole life and the only thing everyone knew about you. Imagine dying to end the pain but your terrible experience outliving you in the memory of other people. That experience being what you were and what you will always have been. Even if you are dead and cannot realize it.

I hope that better underlines where I was coming from.

I see where you are coming from.

I am dying with the fact that my entire memory will be that of a despised, loathed worm for the person who matters to me. But yeah, once I'm dead I won't be able to worry about their memories of me either.

 

[Alucard]

@LastFlowers I understand what you are saying very well, and very poignantly.

But this problem of the memory of others can torment us only when we are alive. When we are dead, there is no problem, we do not care. That's enough to reassure me...