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aminend

aminend

Warlock
May 24, 2020
747

Gwen Oldekamp, from Heerlen in the Netherlands, was found dead at her home address in Blackburn Street, Radcliffe, on Christmas Eve after a long battle with mental health problems.


The inquest at Rochdale Coroner's Court heard how the 20-year-old had struggled with her mental health for many years and had confided with colleagues at Booking.com in late November, who recommended she go to a walk in centre.
This led to her being seen at A&E at North Manchester General Hospital. Everyone she saw told her she needed to sign up to a GP for follow-up care and potential anti-depressant prescriptions.


She did eventually sign up to a GP on December 4, 2019, at the Rock Medical Centre but never made an appointment and was found dead at home on December 24.


Evidence was heard from a GP at that centre, Dr Colette Johnston, that they only had records of Gwen from 2018 and not of her recent visits to A&E where she had disclosed suicidal thoughts.



She said the system of notes between GPs and walk-in centres and A&Es can be "clunky", especially if a patient doesn't have a GP at the time they are seen, as in Gwen's case, and that the system on this occasion may have failed Gwen.


Evidence was also heard from a toxicologist, Julie Evans, who explained that it was sodium nitrate which caused Gwen's death.


This is hard to detect in blood and has become more common in suicide cases around the country over the last three years, which the court heard is being looked into by police and other agencies.


Evidence was also heard from the police, through Det Insp Nathan Percival and police coroner's officer Emma Campbell, about how through December Gwen appeared to plan taking her own life.


She acquired the sodium nitrite, which is not illegal to sell, through the internet and had been on websites where people discuss suicide in the weeks leading to her death.
Mr Percival also detailed how she had neatly left her passport and a note to her family on a table in her house signalling she intended to take her own life.


Coroner Joanne Kearsley questioned why she had not been given anti-depressants or referred through her trips to the walk in or A&E but it was explained by operational manager at Greater Manchester Mental Health, Debra Woodcock, how it was difficult to proscribe anti-depressants in an emergency, as in Gwen's case, without her having a GP.


This was a view backed up by Dr Johnston and that there may be others out there not picking up primary mental health care due to a lack of GP.


Ms Kearsley ended the inquest by discussing the ease by which sodium nitrate could be obtained. and describing Gwen's death as "a rare and tragic but extremely concerning cases."


She said: "She was clearly a young woman who loved animals, loved festivals and may have previously had mental health issues that were not know to her family.


"It was a short period of time between her going to A&E until her death on December 24 and clearly she had registered with a GP but had not gone to get further help."


Ms Kearsley concluded cause of death was sodium nitrite poisoning.
 
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GenesAndEnvironment

GenesAndEnvironment

Autistic loser
Jan 26, 2021
5,743
RIP
 
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Sherri

Sherri

Archangel
Sep 28, 2020
13,794
Rest in peace , sorry the system failed you :'(
 
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newave3

newave3

I want out
Nov 21, 2020
2,755
Sad, very sad.
 
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Marktheghost

Marktheghost

Paragon
Feb 20, 2020
911
Why can't they make up their minds whether it was sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite?
 
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Avyn

Avyn

Experienced
Jan 27, 2021
228
I will never understand why you need a prescription for anti-depressants. Probably because they want to suck out more and more money from depressed people so they force you to seek a psychologist/therapist first, pay for their sessions and then pay additionally for the anti-depressants and other tablets.
Either way, I hope she is resting in peace, she tried getting help but... well, that's the world we live in. Sad.
 
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ashedout

ashedout

Member
Jan 22, 2021
93
The barriers to accessing help and resources are immense and it's heartbreaking how many people who seek help are just shuffled through the system without any supports in place. I hope she is at peace
 
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Thanatonaut

Thanatonaut

My time is coming.
May 17, 2019
264
Why can't they make up their minds whether it was sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite?
Sometimes I think they intentionally make it ambiguous to potentially thwart someone looking to CTB. Other times I think it's just journalists who sucked at chemistry in high school.
 
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S

Scotty

Student
Dec 26, 2020
136
I wish that they would call the cause of death due to mental health issues and lack of support. The SN was not the problem. Oh well.
 
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London2021

London2021

Member
Jan 30, 2021
70
Yet another person failed by MH system in UK. Annual Time to Talk days and Awareness Weeks but unless your problems mild to moderate then God help you. Asking for help to stay alive only to be turned away both cruel and negligent. The perfect storm. RIP
 
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S

suicidal257

Member
Nov 24, 2020
52
Not saying that mental healthcare couldn't work, but it didn't work in my case and has just made me more miserable.

Antidepressants didn't cure my most of conditions and caused numerous side effects so I decided to throw them away.

What I need is euthanasia, not more poison.
 
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London2021

London2021

Member
Jan 30, 2021
70
I got admitted to MH services following a suicide attempt where I hadn't asked for help despite having a good GP. They just terrified me in the end, the constant threats of being sectioned ( and them doing so ) ,the violence of the system, the cruelty of so many working within it. So, I really understand where you're coming from. I wouldn't ever go near them and ask for help because we know what happens if you trust them. Maybe if you have mild to moderate anxiety or depression online Apps or zoom CBT or the like will help you or a good GP.

But anything considered serious then in UK you are too unsafe for crisis services as risk of suicide or accidental death through psychosis not something they take on. And very few alternatives available. Would like to think the money not spent on the older no hopers like me redirected to the young. Except it's not and they should be prosecuted for this. Ironic assisted suicide a crime here with additional categories for professionals who encourage, yet they can turn ppl away stating it's up to them if they end their life as have capacity to decide....

Gwen Oldekamp, from Heerlen in the Netherlands, was found dead at her home address in Blackburn Street, Radcliffe, on Christmas Eve after a long battle with mental health problems.


The inquest at Rochdale Coroner's Court heard how the 20-year-old had struggled with her mental health for many years and had confided with colleagues at Booking.com in late November, who recommended she go to a walk in centre.
This led to her being seen at A&E at North Manchester General Hospital. Everyone she saw told her she needed to sign up to a GP for follow-up care and potential anti-depressant prescriptions.


She did eventually sign up to a GP on December 4, 2019, at the Rock Medical Centre but never made an appointment and was found dead at home on December 24.


Evidence was heard from a GP at that centre, Dr Colette Johnston, that they only had records of Gwen from 2018 and not of her recent visits to A&E where she had disclosed suicidal thoughts.



She said the system of notes between GPs and walk-in centres and A&Es can be "clunky", especially if a patient doesn't have a GP at the time they are seen, as in Gwen's case, and that the system on this occasion may have failed Gwen.


Evidence was also heard from a toxicologist, Julie Evans, who explained that it was sodium nitrate which caused Gwen's death.


This is hard to detect in blood and has become more common in suicide cases around the country over the last three years, which the court heard is being looked into by police and other agencies.


Evidence was also heard from the police, through Det Insp Nathan Percival and police coroner's officer Emma Campbell, about how through December Gwen appeared to plan taking her own life.


She acquired the sodium nitrite, which is not illegal to sell, through the internet and had been on websites where people discuss suicide in the weeks leading to her death.
Mr Percival also detailed how she had neatly left her passport and a note to her family on a table in her house signalling she intended to take her own life.


Coroner Joanne Kearsley questioned why she had not been given anti-depressants or referred through her trips to the walk in or A&E but it was explained by operational manager at Greater Manchester Mental Health, Debra Woodcock, how it was difficult to proscribe anti-depressants in an emergency, as in Gwen's case, without her having a GP.


This was a view backed up by Dr Johnston and that there may be others out there not picking up primary mental health care due to a lack of GP.


Ms Kearsley ended the inquest by discussing the ease by which sodium nitrate could be obtained. and describing Gwen's death as "a rare and tragic but extremely concerning cases."


She said: "She was clearly a young woman who loved animals, loved festivals and may have previously had mental health issues that were not know to her family.


"It was a short period of time between her going to A&E until her death on December 24 and clearly she had registered with a GP but had not gone to get further help."


Ms Kearsley concluded cause of death was sodium nitrite poisoning.
These comments from NHS professionals are deliberately misleading and should have been challenged. It's one of the reasons NOK should have the right to legal aid at coroner's to address such crap.

How the hospital ED wouldn't know to refer to the MH crisis team WHO YOU SEE IN PERSON WHEN YOU ATTEND THE ED is beyond credibility. Its the very first and often ONLY thing the ED does in MH for chrissake.

Personally not a fan BUT the crisis team can be self referred to so NO GP needed. The crisis team is headed by psychiatrists WHO ROUTINELY PRESCRIBE. The crisis team can see someone daily or more. For as long as is needed. And guess what - antidepressants are NOT the only support possible . How about some sort of kindness and listening given no sodding drug going to kick in helpfully for at least 2 weeks anyways and ppl need really close monitoring for when drugs make situations worse.
The crisis team have ONE job. And they fail again again again.
 
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justanotherstar

justanotherstar

Life: you can’t fire me, I quit.
Nov 23, 2020
345
RIP Gwen. Sorry the world let you down. I hope you are at peace
 
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BluesRunTheGame

BluesRunTheGame

Blackpilled
Dec 15, 2020
1,715
It was very late
On a winter's date
When they thought she'd only took
Sodium nitrate

But that Christmas night
It caused such a fright
When they realised in fact
It was sodium nitrite

RIP Gwen x
 
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R

Roseate

Specialist
Mar 24, 2021
399
I will never understand why you need a prescription for anti-depressants. Probably because they want to suck out more and more money from depressed people so they force you to seek a psychologist/therapist first, pay for their sessions and then pay additionally for the anti-depressants and other tablets.
Either way, I hope she is resting in peace, she tried getting help but... well, that's the world we live in. Sad.
People would misuse them. It needs to be taken under a doctor's care. The last thing we need is for medications like that to be widely available. Then everyone would just misuse them and it would be a whole other problem itself. There is no win win to a situation like this.
 
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popcorn

popcorn

Experienced
Dec 20, 2020
298
People would misuse them. It needs to be taken under a doctor's care. The last thing we need is for medications like that to be widely available. Then everyone would just misuse them and it would be a whole other problem itself. There is no win win to a situation like this.
how can you misuse anti depressants? theyre impossible to get high on or use for ctb. normal table salt is more deadly than shit like prozac
 
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Tkmiz_Tsukumizu

Tkmiz_Tsukumizu

Specialist
Feb 3, 2021
320
how can you misuse anti depressants? theyre impossible to get high on or use for ctb. normal table salt is more deadly than shit like prozac
You would be surprised what people misuse or willingly do to themselves.
IIRC in the past some anti depressants were used to commit suicide.
 
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popcorn

popcorn

Experienced
Dec 20, 2020
298
You would be surprised what people misuse or willingly do to themselves.
IIRC in the past some anti depressants were used to commit suicide.
i know the tricyclic ones like amnitryp can be used for ctb but the process takes many days and is uncomfortably without knock out doses of benzos. the new gen SSRIs are pretty fool proof tho i believe

i wish doctors would lighten up on the reluctance to prescribe all the good stuff. i once knew a guy who had freeze dried diamorphine ampules on repeat for decades, so jealous
 
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R

Roseate

Specialist
Mar 24, 2021
399
how can you misuse anti depressants? theyre impossible to get high on or use for ctb. normal table salt is more deadly than shit like prozac
I disagree. Everything has a risks. And speaking from experience you can misuse them. And the whole point of misusing them isn't to get high or kill oneself. And there are side effects which is why doctors have to monitor patients while they use them. And the pills would just affect me, but whenever I felt anxious I would just take a couple. And it wasn't meant for that but it only helped with that. And I started to depend on them. So I do think antidepressants can be misused just like everything else. If it was risk-free, which nothing in life really is, but it needs to be monitored by a professional.
 
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Lost Magic

Lost Magic

Visionary
May 5, 2020
2,972
The system screws over many mentally ill people because it simply does not care. Stock up on your Sodium Nitrite now because it will be impossible to get in the next few years.
 
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Seiba

Seiba

Arcanist
Jun 13, 2021
489
Weird that anti-depressants seem to be the sticking point for them and not any therapy. As for as I'm aware medications hardly help with suicide, and it's best if taken to be in conjugation with therapy. I guess it's one of the easier options, the first visit is an hour and after that fifteen only at best. GPs also understand a minimum at best about depression.

Anyway a second reading here with a little bit more if anyone is interested.

 
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