Discussion Religion and the anti-suicide view

[TAW122]

Before I go into this topic, I just want to say that I have nothing against people who believe in God, a god(s), or those who follow a religion. I am not attacking them for their views as long as they do not impose their opinions, convert, or try to bully those who don't agree or believe in the same things they do. With that said, I am going to be primarily focusing on the Abrahamic religion of Christianity. Most followers of Christianity are against suicide as they view it as a 'sin' to do so. As an atheist who regularly attends church (mostly for the social aspect, learning the religion, and other extra curricular activities), I actually know a few things about the Bible and it's stories as well as being able to logically deduce most things there. There is no specific passage, scripture, or text that explicitly forbids suicide or views it as a 'sin' (correct me if I'm wrong) and even the ten commandments (thou shalt not kill, 1 of the 10) is vague at best. According to my interpretation of that, it seems like it is referring to unlawful killing or killing of others (murder, which is universally morally wrong). Furthermore, there are even stories in the Bible showing various people who suicided for a better cause or to save others. One of the most prominent ones that I can use as an example is the suicide of Judas Iscariot. While many scholars claim that he is in hell, I don't believe that he is in hell for suicide but for the worst betrayal of all, which in his case, was his betrayal against the son of God himself.

With all that said, fair enough if modern Christians believe that suicide is a sin or whatever, it doesn't change my point of view. However, the line is crossed when they decide that their religion and point of view puts them above the law and gives them agency to impose their will on those who do not believe in the same god (or none at all) as they do. In the secular, real world, also reality, we have governments and laws that keep order as well as keep society running, so theoretically, no one is above the law. For them to put themselves above the law and try to impose their anti-suicide view (even going as far as to interfere, intervene, or stop someone who CTB'ing) on those who don't believe in the same God nor share their opinion in regards to the right to die, choice to die, is appalling. If they done that in a country where patients who are suffering and dying have the right to die and actually interfered with said patient's choice (whether they are the doctor, a nurse, or just another stranger), then they shall suffer both legal and civil consequences. If I recall, tampering with another's DNR, living will, or medical decision is a serious crime (if not, well it SHOULD be) and they would spend many years in prison and also pay restitution for damages the victim incurred. All I know is that if I am in a country, state, or jurisdiction where assisted suicide is legal and I meet the criteria for it, then someone tries to interfere or cause damages of any sort, then I will seek legal damages against them and let the legal system roast them (criminal charges and civil penalties). They will regret heavily of their decision if they ever do that to me and if I am unable to die while in that predicament (permanent physical disability, loss of motor function and whatnot, etc.), I will do my best to make them wished that I was dead instead.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Love your post. I was raised in a religious family. I wouldn't say that I'm atheist but I think they definitely "USE" the Bible to control people.
I believe that no one has the right to impose their beliefs on another. They certainly don't want others beliefs forced on them but have no problem doing it to others. Especially Christians that don't want Muslims to force their beliefs on them.
Also this BULLSHIT about making everyone say Merry Christmas. Some people have a different faith or are atheist.
As for suicide … I think I read somewhere that people were killing themselves in the early days of Christianity to get to god quicker.
Then that was when the Catholic Church decided that it was "wrong"
I don't remember where I read this anymore … if it was on here or some other site. Who knows … maybe someone made it up. I don't know.
I still pray at night for friends and family … I also pray to die. When I wake up and see I'm still here I think there is no god.
Anyway … Thanks for reading.

 

[puppy9]

There is a notion that in a polite universe we ought not to criticize religion. Blasphemy is a victimless crime. If religion starts to creep in and be the barometer of political decision , it will make others suffer. We are merely pawns in the eyes of religion. Remember, good ideas triumphs bad ideas. Nothing worth killing for but many worth dying for.

 

[snowman626]

Also this BULLSHIT about making everyone say Merry Christmas

These conservative religious snowflakes get triggered when atheists say "happy holidays" and also there was this outrage a few years ago about the starbucks replacing red cups with green cups and how its an "attack on christian values" fucking right wing PC loonies.

 

[foxtail]

This just my personal view, I think agnosticism make more sense. We just simply can't prove God exist or not. Well I want to believe there is something better out there as the world we live in can be cruel and unfair, unfortunately we can't always get what we want. Life is full of beautiful dreams and horrible nightmares ( I guess for most people here is more nightmares ) and I'm just tired of it all.

Recently I did lots research on NDE and consciousness. Apparently people who attempted suicide had heavenly like NDE, in fact people had multiple suicide attempts can have both heavenly and hellish NDE. My point is if NDE proves life after death, then suicide only goes to hell should be false. On the other hand, if NDE just hallucination and there is no afterlife, then none of this matters. We die and we can finally rest in peace.

Again this is my personal view. Religions are man made, it can be helpful sometimes but no one should follow it blindly. If there is something greater out there after death, I believe it's nothing like what any religions described.

Maybe there is no such thing as consciousness and everything is all predetermined. Below are couple articles that talks about free will and how your brain make decision before you actually did, pretty interesting read. When I first started programming, I begin to have these thoughts that with our limited power and knowledge, we can already predict future and design quite complex AI. Imagine if we're designed by some advance being, it's totally possible to have everything mapped out like how our gene, experience, and the environment we're in can affect every little decisions we make. Maybe we're just some kind advance biocomputer or maybe this is just bunch crazy talk :P

There’s No Such Thing as Free Will

But we all may be better off believing in it anyway.

www.theatlantic.com

Brain Scanners Can See Your Decisions Before You Make Them

This schematic shows the brain regions (green) from which the outcome of a participant's decision can be predicted before it is made. Courtesy John-Dylan Haynes. You may think you decided to read this story — but in fact, your brain made the decision long before you knew about it. In a study...

www.wired.com

 

[TAW122]

@not-2-b-the-answer I suppose this makes most religious people hypocritical because they feel as though they shouldn't be subject to criticism of their religion (referring to Christianity here) and if anytime an non-believer or difference of opinions come, they get defensive and skew logics (as well as commit countless logical fallacies) as well as attacking the opposition. Not to pick on Christians anymore than any other religion, but they seem to have the persecution complex and victimhood whenever their beliefs are challenged. Some react very intellectually dishonest and illogical as well as irrational towards the claims while others just snap and sometimes get violent (so much for preaching about 'peace' I suppose..).

Religions are man made, it can be helpful sometimes but no one should follow it blindly. If there is something greater out there after death, I believe it's nothing like what any religions described.

I agree with your statement about religion. As someone who is a logical and rational thinker, I just don't believe that religion is something that is always there, but rather something that humans invented over time.

 

[TowerUpright]

Disclaimer: I was a Christian (one of those kinds..) but not any longer.

There are many cases in the old and new testaments where prophets or apostles willingly went to do something that they knew would have them killed. Shit, Jesus did that, too. (Swearing on purpose..) The counterargument is that they does because they were following God's will, and, so, it wasn't suicide. But then you have cases like Stephen, where people were following him to kill him, but instead of running, he not only stayed, but purposely antagonized his attackers..., "Which of the prophets HAVEN'T you persecuted??!" Nowhere does it say God desired him to die, because of God's will. That can only be inferred, like many other cases.

All this to say, the Bible doesn't explicitly mention being against Suicide to my knowledge. I also believe there are examples in the old testament where the Jews were contemplating it, and we're not told it was wrong. The radical right does not need to be listened to here.

 

[Pupuce]

Not to pick on Christians anymore than any other religion, but they seem to have the persecution complex and victimhood whenever their beliefs are challenged.

I present to you Islam, where criticising with good intention and going for a proper debate with a mysoginistic, homophobic, pro-slavery, pro-murder, pro-basically everything immoral religion is so racist that even leftists blames you. Yes Islam is a race don't question it. At least christians aren't, nowadays at least, as extreme.


If God as a plan for everyone of us, surely my suicide is part of it? And who are they to question or get in the way of the Almighty?

 

[Kirkscoobz]

We and others before us have suffered at the hands of and because of religion, religion is always used as a way of conflict, to hurt others and force others to submit / Mass Hysteria if you like. I understand every religion is open to interpretation and that there are a crazy few that abuse it, not just one but all religion should be banned only to be practised behind closed doors, we have to many freedoms today and we abuse everything. This will continue when I'm gone and will do for maybe thousands of year to come.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

These conservative religious snowflakes get triggered when atheists say "happy holidays" and also there was this outrage a few years ago about the starbucks replacing red cups with green cups and how its an "attack on christian values" fucking right wing PC loonies.

I remember that. People get "Outraged" over things that don't even matter. It's a fucking cup. If it offends you that much don't go to Starbucks until mid January.
This is why I'm not a Church person. If I was an atheist, I wouldn't even say Happy Holidays … many times I just say have a nice day.

@not-2-b-the-answer I suppose this makes most religious people hypocritical because they feel as though they shouldn't be subject to criticism of their religion (referring to Christianity here) and if anytime an non-believer or difference of opinions come, they get defensive and skew logics (as well as commit countless logical fallacies) as well as attacking the opposition. Not to pick on Christians anymore than any other religion, but they seem to have the persecution complex and victimhood whenever their beliefs are challenged. Some react very intellectually dishonest and illogical as well as irrational towards the claims while others just snap and sometimes get violent (so much for preaching about 'peace' I suppose..).

I think most people who are religious can't handle criticism of their religion but certainly can't help themselves when they criticize anothers religion.
I think you are correct about the persecution complex. They act like it's 2000 years ago and they are being thrown to the lions.
They preach peace & tolerance but only to people who believe the same as they do.

Disclaimer: I was a Christian (one of those kinds..) but not any longer.

There are many cases in the old and new testaments where prophets or apostles willingly went to do something that they knew would have them killed. Shit, Jesus did that, too. (Swearing on purpose..) The counterargument is that they does because they were following God's will, and, so, it wasn't suicide. But then you have cases like Stephen, where people were following him to kill him, but instead of running, he not only stayed, but purposely antagonized his attackers..., "Which of the prophets HAVEN'T you persecuted??!" Nowhere does it say God desired him to die, because of God's will. That can only be inferred, like many other cases.

All this to say, the Bible doesn't explicitly mention being against Suicide to my knowledge. I also believe there are examples in the old testament where the Jews were contemplating it, and we're not told it was wrong. The radical right does not need to be listened to here.

"One of those kinds" Don't worry we won't hold it against you. I was … sort of … I just wasn't going to church all the time.
I still listen to some Christian Rock/Metal Bands along with the other Rock & Metal I listen to.