Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,034
Fa7

I've been wanting to give an update on my recovery attempt for a while. However, things have been so unstable that only days ago, I was going to make a post in the main suicide forum about my failed recovery.

At this particular snapshot in time, I have two competing narratives. On one hand, the ongoing process of doing my legal will is my only major unfinished business in this world, and I've had decades in which to make a rational decision to CTB. As an ageing (early 40s) person dealing with chronic psychological pain, using my N is a decision that I think is fair to any reasonable person.

On the other hand, I want to put up a fight because there is one thing that I have never experienced in this world: love. I've had a few times when I felt close to friends, and I used to have a wonderful cat who loved to curl up beside me. But compared to a normie who takes for granted a spouse, etc., my life has been a dungeon of deathly loneliness. So here is a summary of what I've been doing.

Fitness
Be1eaa0fbe6d5b9e378fb0c8752e32b7

I always had stereotypes about gyms being places full of hyper-fit narcissists who would belittle beginners. But finding myself with a housemate who recommended a particular centre owned by the local council finally gave me a starting point. It has people of all ages and stages, and some real characters to boot. It's been about 2.5 months now.

What I have learned:
* It is good: The heavy exercise routines have proven a wonderful way of escaping from psychological pain and replacing it with 'constructive' physical pain. It is so addictive that I lament having to work which prevents me from going every single day. I sometimes push so hard that I struggle to walk and all movement is painful afterwards, which forces me to take a day off.
* Depression is bad: my attempts at gaining muscle to improve my ectomorph physique have been somewhat dubious. I quickly realised that the culprit is depression. There's no pleasure in eating, and often it feels like I am being physically drained in my chest. So to work around this, I am having to get into the habit of force-feeding myself to maintain a substantial food intake. Yet more fun.

Spirituality
DSC01776
Some of you will know I have an interest in Eastern philosophy, particularly the very direct approaches such as Zen or Advaita Vedanta which potentially lead to permanently overcoming suffering/ignorance. It is still something I routinely explore, and like a lottery, a breakthrough could potentially happen to anyone at any time.

But it may surprise you to hear me say that this has not been very helpful for me in recovery. Sometimes it can bring moments of peace, or periods of time in a state of presence. But for all practical purposes, there is an actual goal: a shift in identity as the ego-self is exposed as fictional. And if this hasn't happened after countless years, it only adds to the sense of this life being futile.

Being brutally honest is important on any path, spiritual or not. And for me, having someone to share my life with matters far more than striving for some elevated state of consciousness. To be dishonest about my priorities would amount to a 'spiritual bypass'. Now, being on a path like this WITH a partner is the most desirable thing of all.

Relationships
Images

Some people would argue against attempting to find love amidst this chaos. However, considering loneliness is the predominant reason behind suicidality in the first place, I think it makes sense to make every effort.

I am using dating apps despite their notoriety. I've heard of people having success through sheer perseverance. Critiquing the inherent flaws of the apps, with their emphasis on superficiality/quantity over proper bonding, sometimes make for good conversation with others having the same frustrations.

I have countless emotional triggers around these topics due to my past. The common scenario of genuinely good women being used by narcissistic men is a fourfold emotional disaster for me: 1) I empathise with the women who are harmed and share their grief, 2) I feel anger at seeing narcissists smugly get away with murder over and over, 3) women who are thus exploited become hardened and cynical towards good men and 4) for me, dying alone isn't fun.

On the plus side, I have a bit going for me. I look a lot younger than I am. I'm slowly becoming reasonably fit. I have a house mostly paid off. And I have found that there are some women who are open to men with old-fashioned values. So I'm trying my best.

Friendships
Pusheen friends forever
I am trying to make use of the few friendships that I have to reduce my instability on this path. And that includes the good people of this site. In some ways, the odds are stacked against me, and it gives me comfort to know that I would have the deathbed gathering of this forum even in a worst case scenario. It also makes sense to put in the mother of all recovery efforts rather than going out with a whimper. So there we go.
 
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Helheim

Helheim

Member
Oct 7, 2020
8
Please hang in there. I have always enjoyed your posts about eastern philosophy. I can relate so much. Since childhood I have been yearning for that kind of enlightenment, but my pain generator of an ego just won't budge. So I liked your comparing it to a lottery, unlikely but not impossible.
 
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Lauriso

Lauriso

Member
Jul 26, 2022
94
I read your entire post and relate to you a lot. As a side note and forewarning, I've been mixing speed, lsd and alcohol today, so I can only hope my response will be coherent.

Like you, I've had quite a rich life (I'm 37), but I've never experienced true love and intimacy. Neither from family, women or friends. And to me real relationships are the greatest value in life.

Which takes me to my next point: advaita is a fucking scam. You ARE an individual self whose absolutely unique and private experiences have molded you into the person you are. And the same is true for everyone else. Only with such separation can relationships exist. Impersonal blobs melting into an undifferentiated ocean of consciousness seems more like a regress than progress to me. The universe has worked so hard, so to speak, to produce a self-conscious, free-willed (to a degree) individual, and someone has the audacity to claim that annihilation of this miracle is the way? Hell no.

Here's a tiny clip from a longer interview on what's wrong with non-dual spirituality that I really like:

Now, you may disagree with me, but that would only indicate that you are separate self able of forming opinions about other selves distinct from you. And that is what all non-dual teachers are doing in relationships to their students!

I guess what I'm trying to say is you've finally seen the truth about human relationships, the individuality that makes them possible, and the ultimate value they possess. You are not failing to "get rid of your ego", you are becoming an authentic self.

So yeah I've basically focused only on one aspect of what you wrote. But going to the gym to physically work out the psychological pain sounds like an idea worth trying. Do you have a workout routine you follow, or do you just wing it when at the gym?

Sending you compassion, my fellow soul!
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
I'm rooting for you Pluto. You're one of my favorite users in this place. I'm pretty sure you would make a wonderful companion for quite a sizeable number of women.
 
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WhatPowerIs

WhatPowerIs

Paragon
Jun 19, 2022
980
This all sounds very great! I hope you are able to make even greater strides in the future! Just know we're all in your corner!
 
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Reactions: Foresight
J

Julgran

Enlightened
Dec 15, 2021
1,427
View attachment 97004

I've been wanting to give an update on my recovery attempt for a while. However, things have been so unstable that only days ago, I was going to make a post in the main suicide forum about my failed recovery.

At this particular snapshot in time, I have two competing narratives. On one hand, the ongoing process of doing my legal will is my only major unfinished business in this world, and I've had decades in which to make a rational decision to CTB. As an ageing (early 40s) person dealing with chronic psychological pain, using my N is a decision that I think is fair to any reasonable person.

On the other hand, I want to put up a fight because there is one thing that I have never experienced in this world: love. I've had a few times when I felt close to friends, and I used to have a wonderful cat who loved to curl up beside me. But compared to a normie who takes for granted a spouse, etc., my life has been a dungeon of deathly loneliness. So here is a summary of what I've been doing.

Fitness
View attachment 97003

I always had stereotypes about gyms being places full of hyper-fit narcissists who would belittle beginners. But finding myself with a housemate who recommended a particular centre owned by the local council finally gave me a starting point. It has people of all ages and stages, and some real characters to boot. It's been about 2.5 months now.

What I have learned:
* It is good: The heavy exercise routines have proven a wonderful way of escaping from psychological pain and replacing it with 'constructive' physical pain. It is so addictive that I lament having to work which prevents me from going every single day. I sometimes push so hard that I struggle to walk and all movement is painful afterwards, which forces me to take a day off.
* Depression is bad: my attempts at gaining muscle to improve my ectomorph physique have been somewhat dubious. I quickly realised that the culprit is depression. There's no pleasure in eating, and often it feels like I am being physically drained in my chest. So to work around this, I am having to get into the habit of force-feeding myself to maintain a substantial food intake. Yet more fun.

Spirituality
View attachment 97002
Some of you will know I have an interest in Eastern philosophy, particularly the very direct approaches such as Zen or Advaita Vedanta which potentially lead to permanently overcoming suffering/ignorance. It is still something I routinely explore, and like a lottery, a breakthrough could potentially happen to anyone at any time.

But it may surprise you to hear me say that this has not been very helpful for me in recovery. Sometimes it can bring moments of peace, or periods of time in a state of presence. But for all practical purposes, there is an actual goal: a shift in identity as the ego-self is exposed as fictional. And if this hasn't happened after countless years, it only adds to the sense of this life being futile.

Being brutally honest is important on any path, spiritual or not. And for me, having someone to share my life with matters far more than striving for some elevated state of consciousness. To be dishonest about my priorities would amount to a 'spiritual bypass'. Now, being on a path like this WITH a partner is the most desirable thing of all.

Relationships
View attachment 97005

Some people would argue against attempting to find love amidst this chaos. However, considering loneliness is the predominant reason behind suicidality in the first place, I think it makes sense to make every effort.

I am using dating apps despite their notoriety. I've heard of people having success through sheer perseverance. Critiquing the inherent flaws of the apps, with their emphasis on superficiality/quantity over proper bonding, sometimes make for good conversation with others having the same frustrations.

I have countless emotional triggers around these topics due to my past. The common scenario of genuinely good women being used by narcissistic men is a fourfold emotional disaster for me: 1) I empathise with the women who are harmed and share their grief, 2) I feel anger at seeing narcissists smugly get away with murder over and over, 3) women who are thus exploited become hardened and cynical towards good men and 4) for me, dying alone isn't fun.

On the plus side, I have a bit going for me. I look a lot younger than I am. I'm slowly becoming reasonably fit. I have a house mostly paid off. And I have found that there are some women who are open to men with old-fashioned values. So I'm trying my best.

Friendships
View attachment 97000
I am trying to make use of the few friendships that I have to reduce my instability on this path. And that includes the good people of this site. In some ways, the odds are stacked against me, and it gives me comfort to know that I would have the deathbed gathering of this forum even in a worst case scenario. It also makes sense to put in the mother of all recovery efforts rather than going out with a whimper. So there we go.

Your fighting attitude is inspirational. I hope that you will see progress in short order :wink:
 
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Reactions: WhatPowerIs
Foresight

Foresight

Enlightened
Jun 14, 2019
1,393
That recovery instability is very real. Flipflopping from a beautiful recovery to a failed recovery is my lifestyle at the moment. You're laying the foundation and that's what matters. I'm rooting for you too! One moment at a time.
 
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Reactions: WhatDoesTheFoxSay?, whatevs, rationaltake and 1 other person

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