Venting Really hate anti suiciders

[hoppybunny]

They're so fucking selfish. I was recently looking up what CTB (I think it means catch the bus but pls correct me if im wrong) and I saw a PBS article talking about why the creators of this site need to be "held accountable " and why this place needs to be shut down for "killing people".

Not once in the article does anyone even talk about how we can even help ppl and stop them from even wanting to commit suicide.

Instead all they want to do is make it harder for people to get an escape from this shitty life so they can get off on their self righteousness.

"Oh no the poor families suffering want the site taken down cause their relative killed themselves because of the site"

Like if you loved them as much as you say they probably wouldn't have killed themselves but yeah blame the site that offered them a way out instead of yourselves for.not being able to help them.

There are so many reasons people comit, discrimination, abuse, poverty, disability, health and social pressure being one of the main issues and we can fix most of these issues by just not being shitty people and helping one another but of course we're not going to do that. It's easier to blame the suicidal person or people who help them find relief.


It's always, exercise more, go to therapy, eat better, meet the right people because it's your fault you don't want to live in this hellhole where the earth is getting hotter everyday, ppl treat u like crap because of your skin colour (just look at how wngland behaved towards sake after losing the Europa cup) or because of how you dress or who you like, people can barely afford to eat healthy cause everything is so expensive, it's hard to find Time to work out when work drains your soul. Disabilities wouldn't be so much of an issue if we cared about being inclusive and helping each other but no some buildings don't even have something as basic as a wheelchair ramp or an automatic door or elevator because it's "too expensive or too much of a hastle" to be considerate for our fellow humans.

AI is being used to replace the already poorly paid art jobs, and in the US where I live there's no communities cause I either have to love in the city where a bottle of water cost 5 dollars or I get robbed from walking the wrong way and there's no nature and there's just fucking concrete and cigarettes everywhere or I live in the fucking suburbs where it's just single family houses as far as the eyes can see and the nearest library or hang out spot is fucking 20 minutes away by car.

I haven't seen my best friend in person for so long since graduating high school cause I hate driving and even if I do.drive I can't keep the car at her place cause my family needs it for work. And if we don't pick each other's house there's nothing to do cause everything cost money



Gosh I hate to sound like an edgy comic villain but other than chronic illness and pain(please correct me if I'm being insensitive or I'm wrong) almost every reason for suicide is because of society.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

What did you expect? Literally every article on this site, with one exception, are incredibly biased. The people writing them only care about their shitty articles getting a bunch of attention rather than actually exploring the questions of why this exist and what draws people here. Most people don't give a shit about suicidal individuals outside of how it specifically impacts them. They don't want to understand us, they just want to label us all as mentally unstable and incapable of making our own decisions.

It's funny though, because these people will both make us out to be these helpless victims while also simultaneously demonizing us. Like which is it? Are the users on here just a bunch of poor little souls who are being coreced into suicide or are we all just evil conniving villains who get off on people killing themselves?

They dehumanize us, they don't listen to us, they don't even bother at least trying to actually look into this site from an unbiased perspective first before immediately shitting on it. Hell, most of them only interview those who have a bias against this site. At this point, it is better to not bother with those articles and just ignore them.

 

[sserafim]

I hate anti suiciders as well but I've realized that the most evil one is society because it makes euthanasia illegal and assisted suicide very difficult to get approved for so people have to resort to suicide (diy) in the first place instead of having a guaranteed way to die. People should have the freedom to die and autonomy over their own bodies. Society also conditions people to be against suicide. It's done through religion and various other means. Maybe if people weren't so brainwashed by religion, they'd not be so against suicide

 

[hoppybunny]

I hate anti suiciders as well but I've realized that the most evil one is society because it makes euthanasia illegal and assisted suicide very difficult to get approved for so people have to resort to suicide (diy) in the first place instead of having a guaranteed way to die. People should have the freedom to die and autonomy over their own bodies. Society also conditions people to be against suicide. It's done through religion and various other means. Maybe if people weren't so brainwashed by religion, they'd not be so against suicide

I agree. One of the reasons I'm still alive is cause I'm scared of going to hell. I don't think my belief will ever change but it just seems really cruel I'll go.to he'll if I don't endure being alive.

What did you expect? Literally every article on this site, with one exception, are incredibly biased. The people writing them only care about their shitty articles getting a bunch of attention rather than actually exploring the questions of why this exist and what draws people here. Most people don't give a shit about suicidal individuals outside of how it specifically impacts them. They don't want to understand us, they just want to label us all as mentally unstable and incapable of making our own decisions.

It's funny though, because these people will both make us out to be these helpless victims while also simultaneously demonizing us. Like which is it? Are the users on here just a bunch of poor little souls who are being coreced into suicide or are we all just evil conniving villains who get off on people killing themselves?

They dehumanize us, they don't listen to us, they don't even bother at least trying to actually look into this site from an unbiased perspective first before immediately shitting on it. Hell, most of them only interview those who have a bias against this site. At this point, it is better to not bother with those articles and just ignore them.

I'll do my best to ignore them. It just pisses me alot because the nicest people ive met are on suicide friendly places even if we didn't become close.friends.

 

[emma99]

Iv seen survivors of suicide refer to people who had a family member ctb before and and I think that's where a lot of the selfish ideology might comes from. I mean I don't want to talk too much about my situation. But if I had children, I wouldn't be planning on CTB, because i wouldn't want to traumatise them.

I think that the selfish label comes from people who are left behind, who can often feel guilt or responsibility even if they weren't and can actually carry a great amount of guilt.

As for weather or not you think your reasons are selfish, that's a different story.

The last time I tried to CTB was after i had received a back injury. The doctors didn't think my back would ever get better and i was living in agony. I could only stand or lie down so I would watch TV and play video games standing. The injury had stolen my identity from me as i used to be very into the outdoors, camping and hiking.

Ironically even after my physiotherapist told me i would never recover my bock got better after i fell out of a noose in a failed hanging attempt.

Now was that selfish, in some ways it was, Does that mean it was morally wrong? no.

I am free to decide what the lowest standard of living is that i will tolerate.
And thats as selfish as someone saying they want to have children
or someone who eats whilst ignoring the poor.
Its basic human needs, nothing more.

I actually seen it suggested before that artificial life support exists a lot more than we might realise. This would of been in relation to how society has moved on so far from the era of hunter gatherers. Interestingly enough, Historically speaking Eskimos used to throw the sick and elderly out of the community to die. You will also probably find more examples of historic tribes who used to cast out the old and sick. Its only really in modern times that we have changed the definition of "usefulness" and found ways of keeping people who would otherwise not survive alive. I mean you still have parts of the world where they kill infants who are born disabled.

 

[hoppybunny]

Iv seen survivors of suicide refer to people who had a family member ctb before and and I think that's where a lot of the selfish ideology might comes from. I mean I don't want to talk too much about my situation. But if I had children, I wouldn't be planning on CTB, because i wouldn't want to traumatise them.

I think that the selfish label comes from people who are left behind, who can often feel guilt or responsibility even if they weren't and can actually carry a great amount of guilt.

As for weather or not you think your reasons are selfish, that's a different story.

The last time I tried to CTB was after i had received a back injury. The doctors didn't think my back would ever get better and i was living in agony. I could only stand or lie down so I would watch TV and play video games standing. The injury had stolen my identity from me as i used to be very into the outdoors, camping and hiking.

Ironically even after my physiotherapist told me i would never recover my bock got better after i fell out of a noose in a failed hanging attempt.

Now was that selfish, in some ways it was, Does that mean it was morally wrong? no.

I am free to decide what the lowest standard of living is that i will tolerate.
And thats as selfish as someone saying they want to have children
or someone who eats whilst ignoring the poor.
Its basic human needs, nothing more.

I actually seen it suggested before that artificial life support exists a lot more than we might realise. This would of been in relation to how society has moved on so far from the era of hunter gatherers. Interestingly enough, Historically speaking Eskimos used to throw the sick and elderly out of the community to die. You will also probably find more examples of historic tribes who used to cast out the old and sick. Its only really in modern times that we have changed the definition of "usefulness" and found ways of keeping people who would otherwise not survive alive. I mean you still have parts of the world where they kill infants who are born disabled.

It makes sense that some people would blame themselves but I truly do not think there's any reason for killing yourself that's selfish except if you have a responsibility to someone else. For instance, taking on debt or having kids. Once you've made those kind of commitments you shouldn't kill yourself.

So I definitely don't think your reason was selfish at all. One of my fears is becoming disabled either by old age or an accident. So I would've definitely hung myself in your shoes. Especially since you used to enjoy being active. I'm a hibernating bear and the thought of not being able to do things for myself makes me sick.

 

[Downdraft]

AI is being used to replace the already poorly paid art jobs

Not like they didn't struggle before, but now they have an easy scapegoat, I guess.

What do you mean?

Art jobs have always been hard to get, such a minority gets them. Regular abuse was commom on art industry, and going freelance is anything but easy. Most can't live on commisions either, and most people wouldn't be interested on them.

Instead of accepting they aren't on demand, they attack everyone else for it. Much of this existed well before AI, but now people have a common thing they can blame.

The weird thing is there are "real" artists who are implementing it in their works for speed, so it isn't totally incompatible lol.

 

[hoppybunny]

Not like they didn't struggle before, but now there's an scapegoat I guess.

What do you mean?

 

[emma99]

What do you mean?

Being an Artist isn't easy. the term that people generally use to describe artists is "starving artist" The corporate world doesn't gel well with the artist community. Further more society often has more Artists than demand. The demand is just simply not there. Its like a cobbler who makes shoes. He can make shoes and sell shoes as long as there are people who want to buy his shoes. People don't want to buy works of art from renowned artists. plus most people wouldn't be able to afford the work anyway.

With AI, artists can now blame the AI for stealing their livelihoods, even when it didn't steal anything from them, because they never had much of a livelihood to begin with.

 

[hoppybunny]

Being an Artist isn't easy. the term that people generally use to describe artists is "starving artist" The corporate world doesn't gel well with the artist community. Further more society often has more Artists than demand. The demand is just simply not there. Its like a cobbler who makes shoes. He can make shoes and sell shoes as long as there are people who want to buy his shoes. People don't want to buy works of art from renowned artists. plus most people wouldn't be able to afford the work anyway.

With AI, artists can now blame the AI for stealing their livelihoods, even when it didn't steal anything from them, because they never had much of a livelihood to begin with.

Being an artist isn't easy yes but it is definitely in demand, which is why I said poorly paid. There are new tv shows, new ads, new sites, new products comming out daily and artists work tirelessly to help bring these things to life. Being an artist isn't just painting in your room and hoping someone buys it. Despite how hard artists work to make some of these amazing shows, cartoons and products they get paid almost Jack shit because people don't value their work. Which was the point I'm trying to make.

Ai is made from being trained on artist work without their consent it is theft. Because people do not value artists they want to use their work but not give them money so they use AI. I've seen many AI products on sites like Etsy originally meant for artists and many people who think they're paying a real artist and receive AI instead.

AI isn't a scapegoat it is actually taking jobs from people and is serious. Frankly the starving artist trope is insulting because the world loves consuming art but suddenly when it comes to paying artists they need to grow up and find a real job cause it's "not in demand " as you say. Which is simply not the case at all.

Not like they didn't struggle before, but now they have an easy scapegoat, I guess.


Art jobs have always been hard to get, such a minority gets them. Regular abuse was commom on art industry, and going freelance is anything but easy. Most can't live on commisions either, and most people wouldn't be interested on them.

Instead of accepting they aren't on demand, they attack everyone else for it. Much of this existed well before AI, but now people have a common thing they can blame.

The weird thing is there are "real" artists who are implementing it in their works for speed, so it isn't totally incompatible lol.

That's such a mean thing to say. If you don't value the arts that's fine. But you're wrong art is in demand but people don't value artists. They don't want to pay for the work and they've stolen artists work with ai so now they don't have to pay the already shitty waged they give.

Artists demanding better compensation is not attacking others. And artists not wanting their work to be used to train AI is not attacking others either.

It's such a weird thing to say that artists should just accept that they're going to be treated like shit and that their work is gonna be stolen.

 

[emma99]

Being an artist isn't easy yes but it is definitely in demand, which is why I said poorly paid. There are new tv shows, new ads, new sites, new products comming out daily and artists work tirelessly to help bring these things to life. Being an artist isn't just painting in your room and hoping someone buys it. Despite how hard artists work to make some of these amazing shows, cartoons and products they get paid almost Jack shit because people don't value their work. Which was the point I'm trying to make.

okay so that changes things.
and although we are tecnically talking about artists.
I would differentiate that those working in industry are considered designers rather than artists.

I would consider Artists as free lance painters, or novice muscisioons.
Thats not to way that there work is crap.
Often indepndant artists / muscisions can produce better quality work than the corporate enterprises
which employ artists as desingers.

Now if your argument is that corporate designers are undervalued and under paid. I would fully agree.

II know for example that artists working in visual effects are over worked, and under valued massively for their input.

 

[hoppybunny]

okay so that changes things.
and although we are tecnically talking about artists.
I would differentiate that those working in industry are considered designers rather than artists.

I would consider Artists as free lance painters, or novice muscisioons.
Thats not to way that there work is crap.
Often indepndant artists / muscisions can produce better quality work than the corporate enterprises
which employ artists as desingers.

Now if your argument is that corporate designers are undervalued and under paid. I would fully agree.

II know for example that artists working in visual effects are over worked, and under valued massively for their input.

They're all the same tho. Giving them a different name doesn't change the fact that they're artists. They are called artists as well. If I apply to a job in EA I will be called an artist. A designer is also still an artist. Just more specialized. The way a track star is still an athlete.

But corporate and solo artists are under paid and undervalued. People that make shitty corporate music deserve to get paid enough to live. And people that paint for art galleries also deserve to get paid.

Art is labour. I think because people are willing to suffer for their passion it's not taken seriously. But it's not just the arts either. Research is the same. People exploit anyone who isn't driven by money. I also wanted to do research in robotics and AI at one point but I found that unless I was interested in automating people's jobs I'd have to survive on bread and mold. Because I was more interested in AI for helping with things like loneliness and not to be mean dirty work that most people would not want to do.

So it's just really disheartening that a profession that's highly sought after and highly experienced I'm daily life would be called not in demand when that isn't the case at all.

 

[Downdraft]

That's such a mean thing to say. If you don't value the arts that's fine. But you're wrong art is in demand but people don't value artists. They don't want to pay for the work and they've stolen artists work with ai so now they don't have to pay the already shitty waged they give.

See? Everyone was suddenly interested in art now AI came out. Where were commissioners before? So bizarre everyone turned into an art consumer.

About "art is in demand, not artists"... you just refuted yourself lol. If people don't value artists, they simply won't be willing to pay them, with or without AI. Pretending everyone else got it wrong is nothing more than apologism.

BTW, there's big debate on whether transformation is theft or not.

It's such a weird thing to say that artists should just accept that they're going to be treated like shit and that their work is gonna be stolen.

All I'm saying is you choose your career knowing what the scene looks like. That's all. If people can't even inform themselves on their literal future, I don't see why should I hold their hands at every moment.

This world is harsh. Expecting people to do all for you, or think the whole world is wrong for not wanting their art, speaks very poorly about you. Be self-sufficient if others fail you, instead of making a bad situation even worse.

Underpaid, underdemanded... it doesn't matter. There's everything, but it doesn't change the argument, nor it means it never happened.

Most people are also struggling financially, which is often forgotten, and can't really afford to hire an artist.

Artists demanding better compensation is not attacking others. And artists not wanting their work to be used to train AI is not attacking others either.

But they do attack. A lot.

 

[hoppybunny]

See? Everyone was suddenly interested in art now AI came out. Where were commissioners before? So bizarre everyone turned into an art consumer.

About "art is in demand, not artists"... you just refuted yourself lol. If people don't value artists, they simply won't be willing to pay them, with or without AI. Pretending everyone else got it wrong is nothing more than apologism.

BTW, there's big debate on whether transformation is theft or not.


All I'm saying is you choose your career knowing what the scene looks like. That's all. If people can't even inform themselves on their literal future, I don't see why should I hold their hands at every moment.

This world is harsh. Expecting people to do all for you, or think the whole world is wrong for not wanting their art, speaks very poorly about you. Be self-sufficient if others fail you, instead of making a bad situation even worse.

Underpaid, underdemanded... it doesn't matter. There's everything, but doesn't change the argument.


But they do attack. A lot.

whatever lets you sleep at night. I still don't agree with you and i definitely think you're being unnecessarily mean. but if talking down on the arts makes you feel better, I'm happy for you.

 

[iamgoddamnlost]

They're so fucking selfish. I was recently looking up what CTB (I think it means catch the bus but pls correct me if im wrong) and I saw a PBS article talking about why the creators of this site need to be "held accountable " and why this place needs to be shut down for "killing people".

Not once in the article does anyone even talk about how we can even help ppl and stop them from even wanting to commit suicide.

Instead all they want to do is make it harder for people to get an escape from this shitty life so they can get off on their self righteousness.

"Oh no the poor families suffering want the site taken down cause their relative killed themselves because of the site"

Like if you loved them as much as you say they probably wouldn't have killed themselves but yeah blame the site that offered them a way out instead of yourselves for.not being able to help them.

There are so many reasons people comit, discrimination, abuse, poverty, disability, health and social pressure being one of the main issues and we can fix most of these issues by just not being shitty people and helping one another but of course we're not going to do that. It's easier to blame the suicidal person or people who help them find relief.


It's always, exercise more, go to therapy, eat better, meet the right people because it's your fault you don't want to live in this hellhole where the earth is getting hotter everyday, ppl treat u like crap because of your skin colour (just look at how wngland behaved towards sake after losing the Europa cup) or because of how you dress or who you like, people can barely afford to eat healthy cause everything is so expensive, it's hard to find Time to work out when work drains your soul. Disabilities wouldn't be so much of an issue if we cared about being inclusive and helping each other but no some buildings don't even have something as basic as a wheelchair ramp or an automatic door or elevator because it's "too expensive or too much of a hastle" to be considerate for our fellow humans.

AI is being used to replace the already poorly paid art jobs, and in the US where I live there's no communities cause I either have to love in the city where a bottle of water cost 5 dollars or I get robbed from walking the wrong way and there's no nature and there's just fucking concrete and cigarettes everywhere or I live in the fucking suburbs where it's just single family houses as far as the eyes can see and the nearest library or hang out spot is fucking 20 minutes away by car.

I haven't seen my best friend in person for so long since graduating high school cause I hate driving and even if I do.drive I can't keep the car at her place cause my family needs it for work. And if we don't pick each other's house there's nothing to do cause everything cost money



Gosh I hate to sound like an edgy comic villain but other than chronic illness and pain(please correct me if I'm being insensitive or I'm wrong) almost every reason for suicide is because of society.

Omg how I agree with this absolutely
LIKE FUCKING SAVE PEOPLE before they die instead of crying at their funeral lmao
THE HYPOCRISY

 

[hoppybunny]

Omg how I agree with this absolutely
LIKE FUCKING SAVE PEOPLE before they die instead of crying at their funeral lmao
THE HYPOCRISY

Easier on their conscious to pretend they care when the person can't talk anymore lol.

 

[iamgoddamnlost]

Easier on their conscious to pretend they care when the person can't talk anymore lol.

Exactly

 

[Imagined_Euphoria]

Pro-lifers are the worst. They want the suffering of this world to continue forever. My family wants this path for me, they want me to get a wife and become a father. I will NEVER do that, I could never be so cruel to share the curse of life.

 

[avalonisburning]

If you're a good person, they want you to live as long as possible as a gift. If you're a bad person, they want you to live as long as possible as penitence. Notice how it doesn't matter what you say or do - the outcome remains the same, and all that changes is the pretext.

You can't negotiate or reason with those people. Debating, getting mad about, or ruminating over their beliefs gives them more dignity and power than they deserve. Like potholes in the road or sharp rocks in the ocean, they're an obstacle to navigate around, and nothing more.