Discussion Questions for SanctionedSuicide (SS.)

[FortuneOfFood]

Hi!

I'm not sure if this is the right site to make this sort of post, and if I posted in the wrong hub, please redirect me so I can post this properly, but either way, I'll start with an introduction.

I'm an 18 year old who is really passionate about mental health support and I hope to eventually find a job in counselling or some form of support/social work. I'll try not to overshare too much, but I'm hoping to eventually join the Lifeline crisis support team, however, I feel as if I don't have enough experience or wisdom to go for that sort of opportunity yet or even explore my options in support work, which is why I've come here.

I'd love any and all advice or support from members of this community, considering the pro-choice ideology applied to suicide that I haven't seen done professionally or seen in mainstream, it would be really interesting to see if you have any unique ideas; so really, any and all advice regarding support work or the mental health field (very vague, but I don't particularly know where I want to aim yet) would be appreciated, and if anybody has tips for maintaining your personal wellbeing, etc. that would be nice too, as we can generate a healthy discussion that could benefit everyone.

Now, here are my main questions that I would like to ask:

• How do you support someone in crisis or with mental/social struggles?
• What can I personally do to improve myself - my empathy, managing my ego, actively listening, etc.
• Are there any opportunities or resources I should look into/aim for, could be as simple as a book I should read or a job idea.
• How do I know if I'm ready? By this I mean how can I reflect on my emotional intelligence and maturity, how do I know I'm ready for a difficult job, or for anything?

I'm not particularly an ambitious person, when I was a kid I didn't think I'd last this long, but I have hope for the future, and I want to inspire others to keep moving forward, to find their aspirations and then do all the cool astronaut work so I can take all the credit (I'm oh-so evil).

I've had many people in my life be dealt the shittiest hands, and I'm no stranger to hardship myself, which is something I'm only now coming to terms with. But I have so much room to grow, and I want others to grow as well, so I want to take these shitty hands people have been dealt and learn from them so I can help others.

So thank you for reading, and draw the next card :)

-FortuneOfFood

 

[Darkover]

How do you support someone in crisis or with mental/social struggles?

Root Cause Analysis
RCA is a systematic approach to identify the underlying issues that contribute to a problem, rather than addressing only the immediate symptoms which is what the current system is setup todo

Suicide prevention is just the lazy option, instead of actually tackling the big issues that cause it. It's a total cop out from society!
I often wonder what will happen, if a perfectly peaceful method emerges that is impossible for government / society to control or restrict? Imagine something you grow in your back garden, that no government can prevent… like cyanide or something but more peaceful.
Then governments would actually have to take the problems seriously and try improve the broken aspects of society and people's lives…
It's a bit like the climate crisis. Society is only now taking it seriously, because they have no choice and are forced to do so.

If you prevent people from committing suicide but do not alleviate their suffering, you are trapping them, not saving them.
You should prevent their suicide by alleviating their suffering.

Why should anyone be forced to stay alive when they absolutely hate their lives and no one actually made the decision to be born?
Why do so many people think they can control what someone else does with their life?
They shouldn't. I feel if people are allowed to bring lives into the world, the same lives should be given the freedom to opt out. I really don't see what is the big deal if it involves no one but the person who had enough.
For the life of me I can't figure this out either. It's part religions fault and part people projecting their life experiences and their foibles onto any given situation.
People are so heartless, selfish, and all around horrible I can't stand it.
Nobody helps the suffering, they tell each other it's best not to dwell on such things, that there's nothing they can do.
Such lies! There's plenty people can do to ease the suffering of others. They choose to turn a blind eye and blame others, blame the people suffering for putting themselves in that position. As if people aren't put there by others.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Now, here are my main questions that I would like to ask:

• How do you support someone in crisis or with mental/social struggles?
• What can I personally do to improve myself - my empathy, managing my ego, actively listening, etc.
• Are there any opportunities or resources I should look into/aim for, could be as simple as a book I should read or a job idea.
• How do I know if I'm ready? By this I mean how can I reflect on my emotional intelligence and maturity, how do I know I'm ready for a difficult job, or for anything?

The best support you can give someone who is in a crisis is to listen to them and acknowledge their problem. Instead of flooding them with toxic positivity and platitudes like "everything will be ok, just calm down, go into the woods and have a walk, get yourself a membership in the next fitness center ...) it is much more important to understand their problem and come up with a solution to their problem that really helps them. Now, there's probably the biggest problem bc to many problems that make people suicidal there are often no solutions or at best it is highly complex.

Are there any opportunities or resources I should look into/aim for, could be as simple as a book I should read or a job idea.

You may look in the sticky threads in the Recovery Section. Maybe you find sth there.

 

[2messdup]

What @Darkover said - "If you prevent people from committing suicide but do not alleviate their suffering, you are trapping them, not saving them."

A book I'm reading atm might be useful - "Waking up Alive" by Richard A. Heckler. It's based on interviews with people who attempted to ctb but failed and recovered. It's the first time that I've read anything describing the state of mind leading to ctb attempts that resonated with me.

I think you've come to the right place here as there is a wealth of information that you won't find anywhere else...
You'll need to be a member and make plenty of posts to get the best of it because there are some sections here which aren't open to newcomers, and they tend to contain more journalling, thoughts and support etc by members who have been suicidal for longer but are obviously still around so far.

I really admire your aims and career plans - I would have loved to do that if I was younger. It's the only time I feel any purpose and even slightly ok, if I've helped someone else. Your willingness to engage in the site and acknowledge that we are pro-choice, not pro-suicide, is encouraging.

You'll see all sorts here. Impulsiveness, deep thinking, desperation, resignation, despair, acceptance, and the different journeys, feelings and thoughts leading up to ctb, or the path of recovery.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Firstly, I'm so impressed that you've taken the initiative to find/ approach this website. Plus, that you care sufficiently enough to want to do an effective job. I think that in itself suggests you'll be good.

I'm going to hail the lovely @Dot here because, I know they have experience working on these lines.

I'd repeat what other people have said. Listen to people. Ask questions to find out what they wanted from life and, what's stopping them. Tailor advice so it doesn't sound like empty platitudes. Like you at least want to understand and help them. You do- so- that's great.

I've also seen and witnessed personally- more aggressive tactics. Guilt tripping: 'Think what it would do to your family.' I found that so insulting- considering I've held on for my family for 35 years! Plus, this person started teetering on 'mental capacity', which sounded more like a threat than concern. I think my (unwanted- to be fair) conversation was just about all the ways to not do it and simply anger/ frighten someone! To be fair though- the call was more enforced after a welfair check. I wasn't the most receptive.

I definitely think maintaining your own mental wellness will be vital. Not sure we're the best people to come to for that!... I guess- make sure you have your own support. Maybe these call lines also support their workers. They should...

I also wonder whether you will be restricted in what you can and can't say. I imagine some stuff might be scripted. I imagine you will need to keep records- I guess calls are recorded though. You mentioned the pro- choice side of things. I'd hazzard a guess a lot of lines likely won't allow that. That's one big thing really- liability. How much will you be restricted in order that blame can't be levelled at your firm, if the person goes ahead?

Not meaning to put you off here but, what if the policy is to send police if there is enough hint of suicide? Would you be ok doing that? Even if you may not agree with it?

I suspect different lines and countries have different policies though. So, maybe it's worth researching. I think this could be so good though. Hopefully for you and the people you help. I wish you all the best.

 

[Dot]

I'm going to hail the lovely @Dot here because, I know they have experience working on these lines.

Apprci8 - sme1 mght nd 2 trnsl8

As othrs sd z - = depnds on ur cntry

In UK th/ Samartns r pro-chce bt thr xistnce ws cre8td in ordr 2 prevnt suicdes - s/ givng ppl a plce 2 tlk & reflct or jst connct whn thy r in crsis

In UK = also voluntry

If u stdy counsllng thn u wll b traind on actve listnng & all of th/ thngs tht u nd 2 remmbr

Thnk an importnt comsidratn wld b 'wht mkes u wn2 wrk in tht area' & = also gd 2 mke sre tht u hve workd thru as mny of ur own issus as pssble -- lts of ppl wrk in m.h bcse helpng othr ppl hlps 2 dstract frm thr own unresolvd trma whch cn rsult in l8tr brk-dwns or brn-out

Rgardng lookng aftr urslf - mke sre tht u cn maintn helthy boundris in ur lfe - mke tme fr urslf & thngs tht u Njy & d/ nt drwn urslf in makng evrythng abt othr ppl & b-ing thre fr thm

If u hve a creer advisr thn thy cn tll u abt th/ bst pth academclly

As fr wrk xpernce jst d/ thngs whch plce u wth lts of dffrnt ppl -- oftn goin out & livng ur lfe & meetng lts of dffrnt ppl hlps u bcme mre roundd as a persn -- slf lfe organclly gve slf all dffrnt knds of frnds wth dffrnt persnltis & challngs includng in musc & art & also lts of Marvl follwrs & conventns etc

Othrwse thre r nt tht mny brriers fr b-comng a carer or spport workr as thy r mre abt spendng tme wth ppl & Ncourgng thm wth dy-2-dy lfe & activtis - s/ cld try tht prt-tme or volnteer fr locl chartis -- n.e ppl-basd charty cld b gd bcse agn u lern 2 spport ppl in dffrnt wys

If u stdy psychlgy thn gttng jbs aftrwrds wll all b dwn 2 ur xpernce workng wth ppl

& 2 hlp u sty resilnt mke sre 2 spnd tme wth ur frnds & ur own spport netwrk & ppl tht u cn hve fun wth

Hpe tht hlps 2 strt - cn ask mre specfc questns & slf wll offr n.ethng tht slf cn

.I definitely think maintaining your own mental wellness will be vital. Not sure we're the best people to come to for that!... I guess- make sure you have your own support. Maybe these call lines also support their workers. They should...

Yh spport lnes oftn d-brif wth ech-othr & counsllrs & therpsts oftn hve 2 hve thr own therpst 2 kp thm mentlly stabl

.I definitely think maintaining your own mental wellness will be vital. Not sure we're the best people to come to for that!... I guess- make sure you have your own support. Maybe these call lines also support their workers. They should...

Yh spport lnes oftn d-brif wth ech-othr & counsllrs & therpsts oftn hve 2 hve thr own therpst 2 kp thm mentlly stabl

 

[Dante_]

I'm going to hail the lovely @Dot here because, I know they have experience working on these lines.

Translation for @Dot


As others have said – it depends on your country.

In the UK, the Samaritans are pro-choice, but their existence was originally created to help prevent suicides – by giving people a place to talk, reflect, or simply connect when they are in crisis.

In the UK, it's also a voluntary role.

If you study counselling, then you will be trained in active listening and all the things you need to remember.

I think an important consideration would be "what makes you want to work in that area?" and it's also good to make sure that you've worked through as many of your own issues as possible. A lot of people work in mental health because helping others can distract them from their own unresolved trauma – but that can lead to breakdowns or burnout later.

Regarding looking after yourself – make sure you can maintain healthy boundaries in your life. Make time for yourself and the things you enjoy, and don't drown yourself in always making everything about other people and being there for them.

If you have a career adviser, they can tell you about the best academic path.

As for work experience, just do things that put you around lots of different people – often, going out and living your life and meeting all sorts of people helps you become a more well-rounded person. My life organically gave me friends with different personalities and challenges – including those into music, art, and Marvel fans and conventions, etc.

Otherwise, there aren't that many barriers to becoming a carer or support worker – those roles are more about spending time with people and encouraging them in daily life and activities. So you could try that part-time or volunteer for local charities. Any people-based charity could be good, because again, you learn how to support people in different ways.

If you study psychology, then getting jobs afterwards will mostly depend on your experience working with people.

And to help you stay resilient, make sure to spend time with your friends and your own support network – with people you can have fun with.

Hope that helps to start with – feel free to ask more specific questions and I'll offer anything else I can.

I definitely think maintaining your own mental wellness will be vital. Not sure we're the best people to come to for that!... I guess- make sure you have your own support. Maybe these call lines also support their workers. They should...

Yeah, support lines often debrief with each other, and counsellors and therapists often have to have their own therapist to help keep themselves mentally stable.

 

[2messdup]

Apprci8 - sme1 mght nd 2 trnsl8

As othrs sd z - = depnds on ur cntry

In UK th/ Samartns r pro-chce bt thr xistnce ws cre8td in ordr 2 prevnt suicdes - s/ givng ppl a plce 2 tlk & reflct or jst connct whn thy r in crsis

In UK = also voluntry

If u stdy counsllng thn u wll b traind on actve listnng & all of th/ thngs tht u nd 2 remmbr

Thnk an importnt comsidratn wld b 'wht mkes u wn2 wrk in tht area' & = also gd 2 mke sre tht u hve workd thru as mny of ur own issus as pssble -- lts of ppl wrk in m.h bcse helpng othr ppl hlps 2 dstract frm thr own unresolvd trma whch cn rsult in l8tr brk-dwns or brn-out

Rgardng lookng aftr urslf - mke sre tht u cn maintn helthy boundris in ur lfe - mke tme fr urslf & thngs tht u Njy & d/ nt drwn urslf in makng evrythng abt othr ppl & b-ing thre fr thm

If u hve a creer advisr thn thy cn tll u abt th/ bst pth academclly

As fr wrk xpernce jst d/ thngs whch plce u wth lts of dffrnt ppl -- oftn goin out & livng ur lfe & meetng lts of dffrnt ppl hlps u bcme mre roundd as a persn -- slf lfe organclly gve slf all dffrnt knds of frnds wth dffrnt persnltis & challngs includng in musc & art & also lts of Marvl follwrs & conventns etc

Othrwse thre r nt tht mny brriers fr b-comng a carer or spport workr as thy r mre abt spendng tme wth ppl & Ncourgng thm wth dy-2-dy lfe & activtis - s/ cld try tht prt-tme or volnteer fr locl chartis -- n.e ppl-basd charty cld b gd bcse agn u lern 2 spport ppl in dffrnt wys

If u stdy psychlgy thn gttng jbs aftrwrds wll all b dwn 2 ur xpernce workng wth ppl

& 2 hlp u sty resilnt mke sre 2 spnd tme wth ur frnds & ur own spport netwrk & ppl tht u cn hve fun wth

Hpe tht hlps 2 strt - cn ask mre specfc questns & slf wll offr n.ethng tht slf cn


Yh spport lnes oftn d-brif wth ech-othr & counsllrs & therpsts oftn hve 2 hve thr own therpst 2 kp thm mentlly stabl


Yh spport lnes oftn d-brif wth ech-othr & counsllrs & therpsts oftn hve 2 hve thr own therpst 2 kp thm mentlly stabl

That's an awesome answer. You're so wise Dot. I've heard it elsewhere, the warning to be clear with yourself why you want to work in the field and that doing it to resolve your own issues is not good.

 

[Bblconsumer]

Well I personally say to study psychoanalysis and transactional analysis. But id also recommend studying hypnotherapy, EMDR and to a degree neurolingistic programming, it's a partial pseudoscience, it has some good elements but sold itself to hard.

This gives people the ability to speak about previous trauma, see how they are made to act and the problems it causes, but also for trauma like recurring memorys or flashbacks it allows people to work through them.

It's to me better then just CBT and DBT, it's rooted stuff.

 

[kotonearisato]

Firstly, it takes an open mind to even be willing to approach a site like this for that reason, so I think you're off to a good start already. Everyone here has given really great answers already, but figured I might as well add my two cents.

How do you support someone in crisis or with mental/social struggles?

Everyone is different. There's no one size fits all, though that would be much easier for all of us lol. When I personally want to support someone, I try to do this thing where after they've explained something to me, I'll repeat it back to them - in different words, or using a different metaphor - before giving my own thoughts. It helps me be sure I'm understanding clearly, and it helps people know that I'm thinking through this with them and not just being a sounding board. It also gives an easy opening to correct me, so by the time I'm actually trying to offer help, they're confident I'm on the same page.

The other thing I'll say on this is to remember how much bravery it takes to reach out in the first place. These can be some of the worst moments of their lives. It can be easy to forget that when you see it so often. Take care of yourself, like Forever Sleep and Dot made sure to emphasize, and you'll be better equipped to take care of others.

What can I personally do to improve myself - my empathy, managing my ego, actively listening, etc.

You're on the right track just by being here! Read threads from here and other support forums. There's a lot of great books out there as well, which is a good way to learn to put yourself in someone else's headspace. Active listening is something you can practice in every day life, even with small conversations.

Are there any opportunities or resources I should look into/aim for, could be as simple as a book I should read or a job idea.

I would like to suggest the book "I Am Not Sick, I Don't Need Help" written by Xavier Amador. You can get a free PDF from the NAMI website. While it's more specifically for helping someone get treatment, it introduces a really helpful communication tool called LEAP - Listen, Empathize, Agree, Partner. It's a great strategy and has helped me a lot in the past. In general NAMI has a lot of great resources, so it's a good place to start.

How do I know if I'm ready? By this I mean how can I reflect on my emotional intelligence and maturity, how do I know I'm ready for a difficult job, or for anything?

That's a question only you can answer, honestly, but the question I would ask myself is "will I be able to handle 'failing' someone". If you're not in a place where you can accept that things might not go the way you hope every time, then I would say you're not there yet. Acceptance doesn't mean that you're happy, or okay with things having a different outcome, it just means you are aware of the possibility and are able to let go of some heavy emotions to be able to try again.

Failing in quotes there because I'm firmly pro-choice myself, so I wouldn't consider it a failure personally, but for the sake of this it's just easier to frame that way.

 

[theneverending]

Hi!

I'm not sure if this is the right site to make this sort of post, and if I posted in the wrong hub, please redirect me so I can post this properly, but either way, I'll start with an introduction.

I'm an 18 year old who is really passionate about mental health support and I hope to eventually find a job in counselling or some form of support/social work. I'll try not to overshare too much, but I'm hoping to eventually join the Lifeline crisis support team, however, I feel as if I don't have enough experience or wisdom to go for that sort of opportunity yet or even explore my options in support work, which is why I've come here.

I'd love any and all advice or support from members of this community, considering the pro-choice ideology applied to suicide that I haven't seen done professionally or seen in mainstream, it would be really interesting to see if you have any unique ideas; so really, any and all advice regarding support work or the mental health field (very vague, but I don't particularly know where I want to aim yet) would be appreciated, and if anybody has tips for maintaining your personal wellbeing, etc. that would be nice too, as we can generate a healthy discussion that could benefit everyone.

Now, here are my main questions that I would like to ask:

• How do you support someone in crisis or with mental/social struggles?
• What can I personally do to improve myself - my empathy, managing my ego, actively listening, etc.
• Are there any opportunities or resources I should look into/aim for, could be as simple as a book I should read or a job idea.
• How do I know if I'm ready? By this I mean how can I reflect on my emotional intelligence and maturity, how do I know I'm ready for a difficult job, or for anything?

I'm not particularly an ambitious person, when I was a kid I didn't think I'd last this long, but I have hope for the future, and I want to inspire others to keep moving forward, to find their aspirations and then do all the cool astronaut work so I can take all the credit (I'm oh-so evil).

I've had many people in my life be dealt the shittiest hands, and I'm no stranger to hardship myself, which is something I'm only now coming to terms with. But I have so much room to grow, and I want others to grow as well, so I want to take these shitty hands people have been dealt and learn from them so I can help others.

So thank you for reading, and draw the next card :)

-FortuneOfFood

as a response to the questions one by one:

1. the best way to support someone in a crisis is to listen to them, not judge them, no matter how horrible it may feel like they are as a person. i have dealt with ASPD my whole life and i am diagnosed as a sociopath. i still care and empathize for people a lot, i help people, i work with people, and all of that. however, that being said, thoughts brought on with the struggle of ASPD, especially in episodes of distress, could be potentially really harmful things to others if i acted upon them. so while i wouldnt consider myself a bad person, i have a lot of bad thoughts, and judging me for those bad thoughts just makes the bad thoughts, and my suicide crisis far worse.
2. just try not to pull the "i know how you feel" bullshit with suicidal people. on the outside it seems like it helps, on the inside it just makes them wanna isolate themselves more, because the truth is, you don't know how they feel, you'll never know how they feel, and nobody will ever know how they feel, because everyone feels everything differently.
3. this is going to sound weird, but you will understand if you actually do it. find online pictures/writings of peoples suicide notes. it really puts into perspective how many suicidal people feel. and from there you can come up with ways to actually help them. rather then just slapping them with medications and some breathing techniques and calling it good.
4. you will know you are ready if you are able to stay calm in a situation when someone is in a crisis, when you are able to listen without doing something drastic (like instantly calling 911, etc.). and when you can fully support someone while also keeping your own needs in mind.

that's all. i am drunk and having a breakdown right now, so if i said anything stupid, take it with a grain of salt. but that was just my two cents. good luck on whatever path you decide to take with this.

 

[Dot]

That's an awesome answer. You're so wise Dot. I've heard it elsewhere, the warning to be clear with yourself why you want to work in the field and that doing it to resolve your own issues is not good.

Apprci8 bt mst of wht am sayng = frm th/ thngs tht slf gt wrng - if slf ws tht wse thn wld nt hve endd up on sasu - s/ jst hpe tht othrs cn lern frm wht slf missd