Discussion Question about SN and co2

[issyishere]

So I recently discovered that SN converts hemoglobin to methemoglobin which cannot carry oxygen and that's how it causes death. Browsing another thread someone mentioned that methemoglobin cannot carry co2 either. Now most people say co2 retention is what causes the feeling of suffocating, but none of the members who've taken it have reported feeling suffocated except for moonies account sorta (rip) Why is that? does SN work differently to not cause people to feel suffocated or does it happen when you're already unconscious?

 

[littlelady774]

That's a good question. I've been studying the Krebs cycle and metabolic acidosis and how it would relate to Methemoglobinemia.

i'm really not that smart with biology, but metabolic acidosis (more specifically, lactic acidosis) can be brought on by both severe anemia and Methemoglobinemia.

You don't really feel like you're "suffocating" per se.. but you know that feeling when you've been exercising really hard, and you're out of breath and your muscles hurt because there is too much acid/co2 in the tissues? It's like that.
Whether or not the blood can transport the acid/carbon dioxide to the lungs to breathe out... idk.

 

[511115]

i'm really not that smart with biology, but metabolic acidosis (more specifically, lactic acidosis) can be brought on by both severe anemia and Methemoglobinemia.

I went through severe lactic acidosis when I attempted suicide via slit wrists.

The pain and shortness of breath is why I panicked and called 911.

Losing consciousness however would relieve all pain. I did not begin to lose consciousness for a long while.

It seems to happen faster via SN. If loss of consciousness is relatively quick, then the pain of lactic acidosis will be relieved quickly as well.

I can say lactic acidosis is extremely painful though. Normal blood lactate levels are at or below a 1. Mine were at an 8.

 

[littlelady774]

If loss of consciousness is relatively quick, then the pain of lactic acidosis will be relieved quickly as well.

I can say lactic acidosis is extremely painful though. Normal blood lactate levels are at or below a 1. Mine were at an 8.

Probably why it's preferable to take pain meds before SN ingestion. You don't know when you're going to lose consciousness, and it's better to be prepared for the worst.

Can you describe your shortness of breath with lactic acidosis? was it like you exercised really hard? or more like suffocation?

Symptoms of acquired methemoglobinemia do include shortness of breath. @Moonicide you might not be alert enough to experience the distress and feelings of suffocation from breathing difficulties.

View attachment 26849

Yes, according to this chart, syncope (fainting) should happen before the pain of metabolic acidosis. And just in case it doesn't, best to take several pain meds beforehand.

 

[511115]

Probably why it's preferable to take pain meds before SN ingestion. You don't know when you're going to lose consciousness, and it's better to be prepared for the worst.

Can you describe your shortness of breath with lactic acidosis? was it like you exercised really hard? or more like suffocation?

I actually wrote about the experience about 6 months after (attempted in Jan, wrote about it in June), here is a direct quote:

I remember making cuts and bleeding out and waiting. I listened to some music. And at some point, it all turned. It was hard to breathe, I couldn't breathe. I was breathing rapidly, shallowly. I couldn't get a breath. It felt like I had no air. And my body was wracked with pain. A pain I can't explain. Everything hurt all at once. I couldn't sit up, it hurt to sit up. I tried laying against the wall, against the toilet. Nothing was comfortable, it all hurt. An aching, indescribable pain. Just feeling so, so sick. And as I tried to breathe, tried to move into a tolerable position, I felt nauseous. My stomach flip flopped. I fought against vomiting all over myself, I was too weak to reach the toilet at this point.

I sank towards the floor, the sounds from my phone sounded more menacing than peaceful. A sense of doom and forboding rose within me. The music sounded almost demonic at this point. I couldn't breathe, I kept thinking. It hurts, it hurts, I can't breathe, can't breathe, it hurts.

[I describe my experience calling 911, then write more about the pain while I wait for the police]

I was consumed with pain.

I had no air, no oxygen.

Couldn't breathe, hurt too much, can I just die. I remember thinking frantically, pain interfering with my thoughts, if I could only die or if the cops could get the stupid door open and save me. Let me die or help me. Let me die or help. It hurt too much for anything else, and every agonizing breath wasn't worth it.

 

[k75]

I believe if everything goes according to plan, you'll be unconscious before this is ever felt. That's why it's never mentioned.

Keep in mind, with SN, we've only ever gotten one real glimpse of what happens past the point of logging off this forum, and it appears highly likely she was not alert during the distressing portion of the account. People who failed don't mention it, and that's telling.

 

[littlelady774]

I actually wrote about the experience about 6 months after (attempted in Jan, wrote about it in June), here is a direct quote:

I remember making cuts and bleeding out and waiting. I listened to some music. And at some point, it all turned. It was hard to breathe, I couldn't breathe. I was breathing rapidly, shallowly. I couldn't get a breath. It felt like I had no air. And my body was wracked with pain. A pain I can't explain. Everything hurt all at once. I couldn't sit up, it hurt to sit up. I tried laying against the wall, against the toilet. Nothing was comfortable, it all hurt. An aching, indescribable pain. Just feeling so, so sick. And as I tried to breathe, tried to move into a tolerable position, I felt nauseous. My stomach flip flopped. I fought against vomiting all over myself, I was too weak to reach the toilet at this point.

I sank towards the floor, the sounds from my phone sounded more menacing than peaceful. A sense of doom and forboding rose within me. The music sounded almost demonic at this point. I couldn't breathe, I kept thinking. It hurts, it hurts, I can't breathe, can't breathe, it hurts.

[I describe my experience calling 911, then write more about the pain while I wait for the police]

I was consumed with pain.

I had no air, no oxygen.

Couldn't breathe, hurt too much, can I just die. I remember thinking frantically, pain interfering with my thoughts, if I could only die or if the cops could get the stupid door open and save me. Let me die or help me. Let me die or help. It hurt too much for anything else, and every agonizing breath wasn't worth it.

Wow, that's terrible. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. :(

Now, presumably, SN works very fast. A person would probably lose consciousness before the effects of lactic acidosis would set in.
By the way, not to scare anyone off but lactic acidosis just happens when not enough oxygen is delivered to the tissues, so lactic acid builds up and cramps set in. Your body tries to compensate by breathing in more air.

This happens with carbon monoxide poisoning too, but people are unconscious by this point to experience it.

 

[Amossoma543]

I actually wrote about the experience about 6 months after (attempted in Jan, wrote about it in June), here is a direct quote:

I remember making cuts and bleeding out and waiting. I listened to some music. And at some point, it all turned. It was hard to breathe, I couldn't breathe. I was breathing rapidly, shallowly. I couldn't get a breath. It felt like I had no air. And my body was wracked with pain. A pain I can't explain. Everything hurt all at once. I couldn't sit up, it hurt to sit up. I tried laying against the wall, against the toilet. Nothing was comfortable, it all hurt. An aching, indescribable pain. Just feeling so, so sick. And as I tried to breathe, tried to move into a tolerable position, I felt nauseous. My stomach flip flopped. I fought against vomiting all over myself, I was too weak to reach the toilet at this point.

I sank towards the floor, the sounds from my phone sounded more menacing than peaceful. A sense of doom and forboding rose within me. The music sounded almost demonic at this point. I couldn't breathe, I kept thinking. It hurts, it hurts, I can't breathe, can't breathe, it hurts.

[I describe my experience calling 911, then write more about the pain while I wait for the police]

I was consumed with pain.

I had no air, no oxygen.

Couldn't breathe, hurt too much, can I just die. I remember thinking frantically, pain interfering with my thoughts, if I could only die or if the cops could get the stupid door open and save me. Let me die or help me. Let me die or help. It hurt too much for anything else, and every agonizing breath wasn't worth it.

This would be a good reason for a person, if they chose this method, to make sure they cut enough that they will bleed out as quickly as possible. If you only cut enough to bleed out...but not quickly...this is an almost guarantee of a painful and slow death, as your experience aptly shows.

 

[Quarky00]

Ah , this was previously discussed :)

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/why-not-always-sn-for-the-journey.29177

Trying to sum things up :

Respiratory effort and brain functions continue almost until the end
the loss of oxygen in the blood does not cause the feeling of suffocation.
- The last thing I would want is an abundance of CO2 in my blood, even while inhaling and exhaling it would be extremely uncomfortable.
- Shouldn't be, as it's not really a carbon dioxide issue , tissue death due to lack of oxygen (eventually organ failure)

25% of CO2 carried by hemoglobin, rest circulates in plasma. SN causes circulatory disorder (blood flow to tissue) as well as blood cells destruction. There's probably too much CO2 in tissue itself, rather than blood.

Tissues die due to lack of oxygen , while you continue to breath . There's CO2 in individual cells and they die individually , slowly . It's not the lungs .