Discussion Q for people who firmly believe there's a hidden elite running the world?

[toomuchtimetodie]

This has always baffled me and swerved me away from believing any of the theories at all... These people or inter-dimensionals whatever you believe in every conspiracy they want the majority of the human race dead and are achieving their goals because they have such influence over how we think via media etc.
So if they want us dead, why make suicide so difficult, program us against more than our biology already has.. and in general keep it such a taboo subject. You think they'd have made every effort to have suicide clinics on every street corner.
The only explanations are these influencers are beyond sadists more evil than any satanism, or they don't exist and it really is chumps like Trump running everything. Neither would surprise me.

 

[faust]

It is not a conspiracy, but reality.
We live in the world of massive globalization where everything is ruled by large companies.
On top there are federal banks. They give the loans to the governments hence g-s are dependent on banks.
Many things depend on oil as well, so as long as we are using oil, these companies will have dominance over anything else.

 

[PoisonedJuliet]

Okay so I'm not a super religious person and I don't really identify with a specific religion but I'm going to answer this question honestly. I believe in some higher power because maybe it makes things less lonely. Some people swear by it, I'm not one of those people. I think that IF there is a higher power it couldn't control humans because we all have free will. Free will is our own thinking and actions. Free will is what makes us unique. It's what makes nothing too evil that it cannot be good or too good that it cannot be evil.

This wasn't a direct answer to your question but it's how I feel so I decided to reply. I know I don't really seem firm in my opinion but that's because I'm not. I question things everyday

Edit: after seeing @faust response I think I might have been a little off the mark with what you were asking. Oh well

 

[toomuchtimetodie]

It is not a conspiracy, but reality.
We live in the world of massive globalization where everything is ruled by large companies.
On top there are federal banks. They give the loans to the governments hence g-s are dependent on banks.
Many things depend on oil as well, so as long as we are using oil, these companies will have dominance over anything else.

That's my point... They have all the power, want us dead... So why have they kept suicide one of the most viciously opposed practices the centuries they've been in control...

 

[faust]

That's my point... They have all the power, want us dead... So why have they kept suicide one of the most viciously opposed practices the centuries they've been in control...

They cannot kill us, only we can do that!

 

[FreedomInDeath]

If people died how would they be able to make money? They want us to live and breed.

 

[Throwmyselfaway]

Oh yeah there's an elite group out there. They meet at bohemian Grove every year. (Sorry can go on and on about this topic if allowed) They want more money and power. Whether we are alive or dead isn't a huge deal for them because rhere's what 7 billion humans on the planet? With every death there is a birth.

 

[noaccount]

It's not "hidden" per se, generally - We can see pretty openly, much of the time, when men have power over women, when bosses exploit and profit from workers, when children are treated as dehumanized pawns, when first-world nations plunder wealth from third-world countries through military force. But that doesn't tell us the whole "why" of it, so people turn to more and more far-fetched conspiracy theories - because there's such a big gap, I think, between the chains of bullying and oppression that structure much of our lives, and the cooperative egalitarian lives we intuitively know we could be living.

"Illuminati theory helps oppressed people to explain our experiences in the hood. Society throws horrible stuff in our faces: our family members get locked up for bullshit. Our friends kill each other over beefs, money or turf. Our future is full of dead-end jobs that don't pay shit. We struggle to pay bills while others live in luxury. On TV, we see people all over the world dying in poverty, even though we live in the most materially abundant society in history. Most people act like none of these terrible things are happening. Why does this occur? We start looking for answers, and Illuminati theory provides one.

We believe Illuminati theory is wrong, and we wrote this pamphlet to offer a different answer. We wrote this pamphlet because we know people who think about the Illuminati usually want to stop oppression and exploitation. They're some of the smartest people in the hood today. Forty years ago, Illuminati theorists would've been in the Black Panther Party. Today most of them sit around and talk endlessly about conspiracies. This is a waste of talent. The world is in a deep crisis, and big protests, rebellions and revolutions are happening. In Egypt, South Africa, Turkey–and even in the U.S.–these movements are already taking 

place. 

People who 

say 

we can't 

do 

anything because no 

one 

else 

is 

fighting are simply refusing to join the fight themselves. With the right tools, we can participate in these actions, and make history with millions of others."

Uhm, the whole thing is pretty long, but feel free to skip to Section 4 if you just want the jist of it.

How to Overthrow the Illuminati

This blog post is an online version of the pamphlet “How to Overthrow the Illuminati” which we are passing out in the hood. If you want to print this text to distribute, please click he…

overthrowingilluminati.wordpress.com

 

[toomuchtimetodie]

You guys obviously don't believe they have a population control agenda.

 

[tireddreamer]

You guys obviously don't believe they have a population control agenda.

The world is ruled by the wealthy and powerful. Their only agenda is to protect and increase their wealth/power. A lot of things make sense if you view societal problems through that lens.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[Argo]

Occam's razor-- why add interdimensional beings who want to kill humans into the theory? Just simplify-- all animals on Earth cannot be equal in strength. Their strength is measured by what we can call "Dominance". What determines dominance? Why is it the Lion that eats the Gazelle and not the other way? Because the Lion was adapted, slowly. The most successful gazelle killers went forward, the others died. The lions compete not just with the gazelle(catch vs. outrun), but also with other lions, in a social hierarchy. Just because you belong to the "majestic species" Lion, doesn't mean you get that sweet lioness pussy. Only the top Lions get that, the rest get murdered/dominated by other lions and exploited for the success of the tribe(power in numbers).

It's the same in humans. It's not a mystery why certain dominant human cultures(From ancient Egyptians, you know, the ones who build the GIANT PYRAMID SHAPED STRUCTURES WHICH IS A SYMBOL OF HIERARCHY?-- to the English). I will stop typing so you can think for a second. Let it all sink in. Dominance. Pyramid. Ancient societies. Eeons. Evolutionary time scales. Murder of the weakest. The strongest fuck and go forward. Any weak, get their children raped and murdered. Repeat... repeat... repeat... repeat...

Here we are, 2020. The rulers of the world are literally the children of the parents of parents of parents ... etc.... who **DOMINATED** reality for HUNDREDS of thousands of years. This is obvious when you just think about it. Yet... if you say this in public, you're a nutjob. That's not an accident.

Why do these people not let you kill yourself? Because you are a farm animal. You are domesticated, fed propaganda from the religion you were born into, or the state doctrine you were born into, and you are to be a meme carrier til you die. Dying early is bad. Living a long life and have your life slowly drained in a hospital bed on life support as you shit yourself to death is more profitable. More profitable = good. Unethical but profitable? = good. Your job is to exist and keep the gears turning. The king with the biggest machine under him, fuels the largest economy. Aruba has zero chance of dominating the planet. China, the US, Russia, etc. are another story.

This has been the case for thousands of years. They keep you afraid. The apocalypse is coming! The world is ending! You'll go to hell if you disobey! These are all the ancient tactics for dominating humanity. It's far more complex than this, but that's just a basic intro to the reality you exist in: A world of lies and ancient domination tactics, arranged in a pyramid, with the top dog dominators sitting at the very top and using their power to fight each other, hidden from your view.

Bad news, you were born into a kind of hellworld, and how bad it is depends on who you are in this world. You could be in the hell of a someone who is very rich but so famous that they are involved in the social elite, like Anthony Bourdain, who was almost certainly murdered to send fear to the other social elite for some "bad behavior" by someone powerful(you'd be amazed how afraid narcissistic movie stars and big names get when they know someone offed one of their lot--- they obey power very fast, their egos are giant and they are terrified of thugs breaking into their hotel room strangling them to death with no justice whatsoever cuz mafias dominate planet earth).

Or, you could be in a micro hell-- you could be some kid born in some random spot on earth, where your psychopath parents, parents who have the genetic baggage of "Winners" of this evolutionary game, decide to lock in a cage and torture you with fire and jumper cables for the 9 years of your life before you finally die of trauma, begging God every day "Why... why... why...".

Or you could just be some "luckier", just a random NPC... nothing too bad happened to them... nothing too good... walking around in this grey, bizarre, confusing hellworld wondering if this is all a joke and someone will unplug the virtual reality machine soon.

No matter how lucky or unlucky you are, it doesn't change the fact that the nature, the pure essence of this world, is a form of Hell. It's just that some people perceive less/more of the hell than others.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Capitalism doesn't mean an active, organized conspiracy by capitalists to control anything. It's a social relation.

Marx and Engels, at least, were explicit about this, repeatedly denying the conspiratorial view of things.

Marx and myself... only regarded the bourgeoisie as a class and hardly ever involved ourselves in conflicts with individual bourgeois.

If the crises demonstrate the incapacity of the bourgeoisie for managing any longer modern productive forces, the transformation of the great establishments for production and distribution into joint-stock companies, trusts, and State property, show how unnecessary the bourgeoisie are for that purpose. All the social functions of the capitalist has no further social function than that of pocketing dividends, tearing off coupons, and gambling on the Stock Exchange, where the different capitalists despoil one another of their capital. At first, the capitalistic mode of production forces out the workers. Now, it forces out the capitalists, and reduces them, just as it reduced the workers, to the ranks of the surplus-population, although not immediately into those of the industrial reserve army.

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific (Chpt. 3)

www.marxists.org

The problem, very plainly, is an abstract social relation which dictates and determines everything. It is production for exchange, mediated by money, which is the issue -- although most Marxists stupidly assume orherwise, typically Stalinists of various flavors who actually think the capitalists consciously determine things. They can't because of the very structure of their society, of their nature as a "band of warring brothers" whose social relations are predicated on competition.

This coming crisis itself and attending phenomena (like the automation of the functions of individual capitalists) will indeed "reduce the (capitalists) to the ranks of the surplus-population". Leaving those who survive to war against "the prince of the powers of the air" - against abstract Capital.

Capitalism is production for exchange. The point is to arrive at a particular end - production for immediate use.

 

[All an illusion]

We're ruled by inter-dimensional beings. Whether you call them Reptilians, Archons, Jinns or Demons...they're all cut from the same cloth. Our consciousness is what they want because it's more powerful than they can even perceive. To give an example watch Monsters Inc...they feed on scaring kids...sadly enough we don't give ourselves enough credit as to how powerful we really are.

 

[Epsilon0]

Capitalism doesn't mean an active, organized conspiracy by capitalists to control anything. It's a social relation.

Marx and Engels, at least, were explicit about this, repeatedly denying the conspiratorial view of things.

Socialism: Utopian and Scientific (Chpt. 3)

www.marxists.org

The problem, very plainly, is an abstract social relation which dictates and determines everything. It is production for exchange, mediated by money, which is the issue -- although most Marxists stupidly assume orherwise, typically Stalinists of various flavors who actually think the capitalists consciously determine things. They can't because of the very structure of their society, of their nature as a "band of warring brothers" whose social relations are predicated on competition.

This coming crisis itself and attending phenomena (like the automation of the functions of individual capitalists) will indeed "reduce the (capitalists) to the ranks of the surplus-population". Leaving those who survive to war against "the prince of the powers of the air" - against abstract Capital.

Capitalism is production for exchange. The point is to arrive at a particular end - production for immediate use.

Are you a Rush fan?

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Are you a Rush fan?

Sure. "The Trees" is not a very good metaphor for what Marx and Engels were doing. Again per Engels.

"The elimination of all social and political inequality," rather than "the abolition of all class distinctions," is similarly a most dubious expression. As between one country, one province and even one place and another, living conditions will always evince a certain inequality which may be reduced to a minimum but never wholly eliminated. The living conditions of Alpine dwellers will always be different from those of the plainsmen. The concept of a socialist society as a realm of equality is a one-sided French concept deriving from the old "liberty, equality, fraternity," a concept which was justified in that, in its own time and place, it signified a phase of development, but which, like all the one-sided ideas of earlier socialist schools, ought now to be superseded, since they produce nothing but mental confusion, and more accurate ways of presenting the matter have been discovered.

Socialism is not the pursuit of an abstract or theoretical absolute equality. It is the elimination of Capital as a social relation - of wage-labour and the M-C-M" circuit.

 

[Epsilon0]

I find The Trees is a good metaphor for communism, especially these lines:

Now there's no more oak oppression
For the passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw

 

[ExitStageLeft]

I find The Trees is a good metaphor for communism, especially these lines:

Now there's no more oak oppression
For the passed a noble law
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw

Yes, if the point of Communism were equality. It isn't. Again, from Engels:

"The elimination of all social and political inequality," rather than "the abolition of all class distinctions," is similarly a most dubious expression.

The point is the abolition of class and the objective social strictures of Capital. It is a liberatory, not a levelling, project. It is also very much unrelated to the project of Soviet State capitalism.

While the revolution in Germany is still slow in "coming forth", our task is to study the state capitalism of the Germans, to spare no effort in copying it and not shrink from adopting dictatorial methods to hasten the copying of Western culture by barbarian Russia, without hesitating to use barbarous methods in fighting barbarism.

- Lenin, "The Tax In Kind"

 

[Inferdan]

Oh yeah there's an elite group out there. They meet at bohemian Grove every year. (Sorry can go on and on about this topic if allowed) They want more money and power. Whether we are alive or dead isn't a huge deal for them because rhere's what 7 billion humans on the planet? With every death there is a birth.

Wait, don't they worship some owl deity at that place? Only heard rumours, but...idk

 

[Epsilon0]

Yes, if the point of Communism were equality. It isn't. The point is the abolition of class and the objective social strictures of Capital. It is a liberatory, not a levelling, project.

We will have to agree to disagree :-)

In my opinion there is nothing liberating about communism.

I will reference another music giant, namely Alice Cooper, and add that communism in practice leads to intellectual cloning.

Alice Cooper Clones

 

[ExitStageLeft]

We will have to agree to disagree :-)

In my opinion there is nothing liberating about communism.

I will reference another music giant, namely Alice Cooper, and add that communism in practice leads to intellectual cloning.

Alice Cooper Clones

The wisdom of Boomer rock on full display.

 

[Epsilon0]

The wisdom of Boomer rock on full display.

Maybe I should mention Black Sabbath as well, just for the sake of having a well-rounded argument. One can never have too many rock references.

\m/

 

[ExitStageLeft]

(Again though, objectively, the point of Communism is not to produce uniform equality, but to abolish class distinctions.)

 

[PrettyMoose]

The elites wouldn't be elites without a large population of drones slaving away for them. Suicide is discouraged because it is destruction of government property.

 

[Jumper Geo]

This has always baffled me and swerved me away from believing any of the theories at all... These people or inter-dimensionals whatever you believe in every conspiracy they want the majority of the human race dead and are achieving their goals because they have such influence over how we think via media etc.
So if they want us dead, why make suicide so difficult, program us against more than our biology already has.. and in general keep it such a taboo subject. You think they'd have made every effort to have suicide clinics on every street corner.
The only explanations are these influencers are beyond sadists more evil than any satanism, or they don't exist and it really is chumps like Trump running everything. Neither would surprise me.

Yes the super rich and powerful have been acting like James Bond villains for years, toppling governments so they can get there dirty hands on there resources and making a lot of money, google the Rothschild's, The Vietnam war and bless him Mark Thatcher, lol, of course we would never get to hear of the successful attempts to install a puppet government. We don't get to hear of the war in the Congo anymore years ago I remember reading that the US are sending a team in after previous minerals, gold, diamonds were discovered, low and behold the war ended and you don't hear of any trouble, people are becoming seriously rich to keep the peace.

Margaret Thatcher 'gave her approval' to her son Mark's failed coup attempt in Equatorial Guinea

Daniel Boffey: Unpublished version of memoir by former SAS officer Simon Mann records Baroness Thatcher's endorsement of plan to depose oil-rich country's president

www.theguardian.com

 

[Throwmyselfaway]

Wait, don't they worship some owl deity at that place? Only heard rumours, but...idk

Moloch they also make human sacrifices

 

[Epsilon0]

(Again though, objectively, the point of Communism is not to produce uniform equality, but to abolish class distinctions.)

I see you are passionate about this topic and I admire passion in people.

I see also that you argue from a theoretical point of view. I suspect your perspective would be somewhat different should you have first hand experience of the topic.

On paper, socialism and communism sound great - who would not want to live in a class-free society where everyone works as much as they can and get what they need?

In practice these ideologies have proven themselves to be a destructive force that kills individuality and meritocracy. It is very much a case of levelling and uniformity to the detriment of free thinking and out-of-the-box creativity.

 

[Inferdan]

Moloch they also make human sacrifices

Heard those too. Surely, that isn't real. Not saying it's not, could be, but there isn't any proof. Which, really, makes sense as to why it's a conspiracy.

 

[ExitStageLeft]

Ideologies don't kill people. People kill people. Communism is most emphatically not an ideology, one political perspective among others. It is an emergent property of capitalism. Capital produces it. Capital is forever reproducing the possibility of it's own abolition.

"Meritocracy" doesn't exist, and bourgeois individualism is nightmarish and surreal.

 

[toomuchtimetodie]

Occam's razor-- why add interdimensional beings who want to kill humans into the theory? Just simplify-- all animals on Earth cannot be equal in strength. Their strength is measured by what we can call "Dominance". What determines dominance? Why is it the Lion that eats the Gazelle and not the other way? Because the Lion was adapted, slowly. The most successful gazelle killers went forward, the others died. The lions compete not just with the gazelle(catch vs. outrun), but also with other lions, in a social hierarchy. Just because you belong to the "majestic species" Lion, doesn't mean you get that sweet lioness pussy. Only the top Lions get that, the rest get murdered/dominated by other lions and exploited for the success of the tribe(power in numbers).

It's the same in humans. It's not a mystery why certain dominant human cultures(From ancient Egyptians, you know, the ones who build the GIANT PYRAMID SHAPED STRUCTURES WHICH IS A SYMBOL OF HIERARCHY?-- to the English). I will stop typing so you can think for a second. Let it all sink in. Dominance. Pyramid. Ancient societies. Eeons. Evolutionary time scales. Murder of the weakest. The strongest fuck and go forward. Any weak, get their children raped and murdered. Repeat... repeat... repeat... repeat...

Here we are, 2020. The rulers of the world are literally the children of the parents of parents of parents ... etc.... who **DOMINATED** reality for HUNDREDS of thousands of years. This is obvious when you just think about it. Yet... if you say this in public, you're a nutjob. That's not an accident.

Why do these people not let you kill yourself? Because you are a farm animal. You are domesticated, fed propaganda from the religion you were born into, or the state doctrine you were born into, and you are to be a meme carrier til you die. Dying early is bad. Living a long life and have your life slowly drained in a hospital bed on life support as you shit yourself to death is more profitable. More profitable = good. Unethical but profitable? = good. Your job is to exist and keep the gears turning. The king with the biggest machine under him, fuels the largest economy. Aruba has zero chance of dominating the planet. China, the US, Russia, etc. are another story.

This has been the case for thousands of years. They keep you afraid. The apocalypse is coming! The world is ending! You'll go to hell if you disobey! These are all the ancient tactics for dominating humanity. It's far more complex than this, but that's just a basic intro to the reality you exist in: A world of lies and ancient domination tactics, arranged in a pyramid, with the top dog dominators sitting at the very top and using their power to fight each other, hidden from your view.

Bad news, you were born into a kind of hellworld, and how bad it is depends on who you are in this world. You could be in the hell of a someone who is very rich but so famous that they are involved in the social elite, like Anthony Bourdain, who was almost certainly murdered to send fear to the other social elite for some "bad behavior" by someone powerful(you'd be amazed how afraid narcissistic movie stars and big names get when they know someone offed one of their lot--- they obey power very fast, their egos are giant and they are terrified of thugs breaking into their hotel room strangling them to death with no justice whatsoever cuz mafias dominate planet earth).

Or, you could be in a micro hell-- you could be some kid born in some random spot on earth, where your psychopath parents, parents who have the genetic baggage of "Winners" of this evolutionary game, decide to lock in a cage and torture you with fire and jumper cables for the 9 years of your life before you finally die of trauma, begging God every day "Why... why... why...".

Or you could just be some "luckier", just a random NPC... nothing too bad happened to them... nothing too good... walking around in this grey, bizarre, confusing hellworld wondering if this is all a joke and someone will unplug the virtual reality machine soon.

No matter how lucky or unlucky you are, it doesn't change the fact that the nature, the pure essence of this world, is a form of Hell. It's just that some people perceive less/more of the hell than others.

That's what I'm talking about boss

 

[Final Escape]

This the truth. It is why many of our lives have become a nightmare. Those people control the puppet strings and power. They have very dark agenda for humanity. To wipe most of us out and rule over a slave population that can never rebel or be smart enough to.