Venting Pro-lifers - what’s their agenda?

[MeltingHeart]

Does anyone else think that some (not saying all) pro-lifers are actually quite selfish (at best) & mildly sadistic at worst?! Or are they just wildly misguided? Or does for some of them- someone wilfully taking their own throw their own delusions / lives into stark relief- and possibly show it for what really is? Which ever it is, I'd quite like it if they could spend even a day with the same mental or physical, anguish or pain of someone that has for whatever reason, sadly had to conclude that for them they feel they need or would simply rather just Ctb - than proceed with their life- it's like they can not wrap their brains around how someone has to actually must be feeling to reach that point-that conclusion- they don't even want to try and understand! Just as i have been told I don't even want to 'try and get better'. As if it's that simplistic & as if I haven't or wouldn't have already done so if I could & if it was that easy - like I'm just feeling like I strongly want to end my life for the fun of it...yeah good times

 

[Rachel74]

They want to save your life! Lovely little angels NOT

 

[MeltingHeart]

They want to save your life! Lovely little angels NOT

Ha exactly! It's actually bizarre - I get why some people may want to stop some people - but it's actually v. Strnge for my situation -in that a few of the people that have atleast in part most certainly contributed to me having reached this point & quite obviously have never previously cared about my life at all- have also done everything they can to halt me! This I don't understand - I also don't understand the families & the court systems that go against people that have no quality of life aftr illnesss or injury to force them to live - is actually barbaric! They don't do the same thing to pets - so why to people ?!

 

[Worndown]

They are being better than everyone else!

 

[I’vehadenough]

They don't understand what it's like when life is worse than death

 

[Soulless_Angel]

negotiators, the one's who sit and talk to you when you want to CTB, the one's who desperately try and stop you, they are annoying pro lifers, telling you you have so much to live for, so much going for you, tell you that this isn't the end of it, that things can get better....
I remember looking one in the eye (as much as I could in the fading light) and I asked her if she actually had ever walked on a path even similar to mine... She stated NO, I asked then why are you saying all this shit when in reality you know nothing about the other side of this..
She simply couldn't answer me!!

 

[Nem]

They say they will be there for you but it seems to be a bunch of
Peace/hugs

 

[Im2high4this]

I believe most have good intentions. They want you to live, just like most pro-choice people want you to live. The difference is, we pro-choice respect the fact it's your decision to make, not anybody else's. Of course there are extreme pro-lifers, but I don't automatically think somebody is dick because of it. If somebody's stance is "you don't have the right to choose what to do with your body" then yea, fuck them. But I think most of them want to be pro-life because they can't morally accept that not everyone is meant to be. To quote you, I believe most of them are on the "wildly misguided" side. I just don't think they have taken the time to research the other side of the argument, which is CRITICAL when forming a opinion.

I would gladly have a civil debate with a pro-lifer, and I bet they can make points that both sides agree with just like we could..however, you can't deny somebody's choice regarding themselves, so I'm proudly pro-choice, and have full confidence in backing that up as the mentality we all should have. Your body, your choice!

 

[Worndown]

A lack of understanding seems to be the driving force behind the majority of societies problems.
It is probably easier that way.

 

[MeltingHeart]

They don't understand what it's like when life is worse than death

Wish they would walk a day in our shoes - so they would have the capacity to understand how you must feel to even have to consider it in the first place! No one just suddenly contemplated offing themselves cos they've had a bad day- well maybe they do but it passes - they don't feel the same way for days , weeks or much longer even

 

[I’vehadenough]

Wish they would walk a day in our shoes - so they would have the capacity to understand how you must feel to even have to consider it in the first place! No one just suddenly contemplated offing themselves cos they've had a bad day- well maybe they do but it passes - they don't feel the same way for days , weeks or much longer even

Yeah, if they walked even a minute in my shoes, they would walk off a fucking building lol

 

[MeltingHeart]

negotiators, the one's who sit and talk to you when you want to CTB, the one's who desperately try and stop you, they are annoying pro lifers, telling you you have so much to live for, so much going for you, tell you that this isn't the end of it, that things can get better....
I remember looking one in the eye (as much as I could in the fading light) and I asked her if she actually had ever walked on a path even similar to mine... She stated NO, I asked then why are you saying all this shit when in reality you know nothing about the other side of this..
She simply couldn't answer me!!

I think some people consider it amoral - end of story - without even a moments thought - it's like that part of their brain shuts down - that allows for them to have the emphatic imagination to even consider how that person must feel- it's actually in very simply terms - just plain narrow minded - the crisis team I had seemed pretty dumb, v. Simply minded to capacity for depth of thought - probably why they are 'happy' being simple minded robots that don't want to ctb . Ergh - I can't even talk to / connect with the likes of them. they literally made me feel a thousand times worst & lonely in their utter lack of understanding- or even trying to! Is it too or to here ?! Dunno

 

[buttercup02]

Intrinsically, suicide is not a moral evil. However, forcing someone to stay depressed is. Ironically, talking with other pro-choicers has made me calmer about shit.

I can assure you that 75% of pro-lifers have never dealt with being as fucked up as we are. If they have, then maybe they either a) got lucky somehow, or b) don't have a fucking mental illness and are just trying to convince us to get off the bus so they can jerk off to their own self-righteousness.

"Look at me, i fucking saved a life. Fuck hospital bills, ew, i'm not paying those! I'm a fuckin hero, bitches, all of you are weak!:-most pro-lifers.

They don't understand what it's like when life is worse than death

that's a good, quick response to the question that i can easily utilize for if a pro-lifer tries to debate me.

I believe most have good intentions. They want you to live, just like most pro-choice people want you to live. The difference is, we pro-choice respect the fact it's your decision to make, not anybody else's. Of course there are extreme pro-lifers, but I don't automatically think somebody is dick because of it. If somebody's stance is "you don't have the right to choose what to do with your body" then yea, fuck them. But I think most of them want to be pro-life because they can't morally accept that not everyone is meant to be. To quote you, I believe most of them are on the "wildly misguided" side. I just don't think they have taken the time to research the other side of the argument, which is CRITICAL when forming a opinion.

I would gladly have a civil debate with a pro-lifer, and I bet they can make points that both sides agree with just like we could..however, you can't deny somebody's choice regarding themselves, so I'm proudly pro-choice, and have full confidence in backing that up as the mentality we all should have. Your body, your choice!

For them, living=vitality.

 

[MeltingHeart]

I believe most have good intentions. They want you to live, just like most pro-choice people want you to live. The difference is, we pro-choice respect the fact it's your decision to make, not anybody else's. Of course there are extreme pro-lifers, but I don't automatically think somebody is dick because of it. If somebody's stance is "you don't have the right to choose what to do with your body" then yea, fuck them. But I think most of them want to be pro-life because they can't morally accept that not everyone is meant to be. To quote you, I believe most of them are on the "wildly misguided" side. I just don't think they have taken the time to research the other side of the argument, which is CRITICAL when forming a opinion.

I would gladly have a civil debate with a pro-lifer, and I bet they can make points that both sides agree with just like we could..however, you can't deny somebody's choice regarding themselves, so I'm proudly pro-choice, and have full confidence in backing that up as the mentality we all should have. Your body, your choice!

I believe most have good intentions. They want you to live, just like most pro-choice people want you to live. The difference is, we pro-choice respect the fact it's your decision to make, not anybody else's. Of course there are extreme pro-lifers, but I don't automatically think somebody is dick because of it. If somebody's stance is "you don't have the right to choose what to do with your body" then yea, fuck them. But I think most of them want to be pro-life because they can't morally accept that not everyone is meant to be. To quote you, I believe most of them are on the "wildly misguided" side. I just don't think they have taken the time to research the other side of the argument, which is CRITICAL when forming a opinion.

I would gladly have a civil debate with a pro-lifer, and I bet they can make points that both sides agree with just like we could..however, you can't deny somebody's choice regarding themselves, so I'm proudly pro-choice, and have full confidence in backing that up as the mentality we all should have. Your body, your choice!

yeah . I feel like people s capacity for critical thought as you said - and I agree- just seems to shut down on this subject- even if they are usually able to apply to all other topics - that's what pisses me off. The dumb ones stupid ones that plain can't conprehend that anyone could ever want to take their own life I sort of understand in a way- it's the ones that can usually have well considered / reasoned arguments I don't get - they just won't even go there on this subject- They refuse to 'entertain' the idea , you could say.

 

[buttercup02]

negotiators, the one's who sit and talk to you when you want to CTB, the one's who desperately try and stop you, they are annoying pro lifers, telling you you have so much to live for, so much going for you, tell you that this isn't the end of it, that things can get better....
I remember looking one in the eye (as much as I could in the fading light) and I asked her if she actually had ever walked on a path even similar to mine... She stated NO, I asked then why are you saying all this shit when in reality you know nothing about the other side of this..
She simply couldn't answer me!!

There's no evidence of shit getting better, what's the point in waiting when there's no hope to be had.

 

[Soulless_Angel]

There's no evidence of shit getting better, what's the point in waiting when there's no hope to be had.

My point exactly, but they all like to say, you never know...
Yea sorry fuck that I am sick of taking that risk and being let down every bastard time!!!

 

[Im2high4this]

yeah . I feel like people s capacity for critical thought as you said - and I agree- just seems to shut down on this subject- even if they are usually able to apply to all other topics - that's what pisses me off. The dumb ones stupid ones that plain can't conprehend that anyone could ever want to take their own life I sort of understand in a way- it's the ones that can usually have well considered / reasoned arguments I don't get - they just won't even go there on this subject- They refuse to 'entertain' the idea , you could say.

Tottaly. I think it's because they would feel guilty in their soul if they didn't do everything in their power to save a life. Good intentions like I said, but it's not appropriate for everyone, and it's unfair to make that decision for people. You can be against suicide and I'll have no problem with you, it's when they try to stop people from their own choices I get upset. If somebody's wants to die, they probably have a reason, and they owe zero explanation to anybody. Nobody here should be forced to justify their want for death by a predetermined checklist. Like, most of them lifers can only entertain suicide for terminally ill people. I'm glad they can at least fucking get that, but it goes deeper then diagnosis's sometimes.

 

[buttercup02]

My point exactly, but they all like to say, you never know...
Yea sorry fuck that I am sick of taking that risk and being let down every bastard time!!!

It's not gonna fucking matter if we're all gonna die. There's always the 75% chance you're still gonna be miserable as hell.

 

[MeltingHeart]

My point exactly, but they all like to say, you never know...
Yea sorry fuck that I am sick of taking that risk and being let down every bastard time!!!

i just find it strange that they wont even try to comprehend the idea, to even consider for a second, that maybe just maybe, there is a mere possibilty for some people it simply wont get better - that their life - being one of pain & suffering- for whatever reason is not worth living-after all life is meant to be atleats vaguely enjoyable- with atleast some moments/ times of joy & happiness- what if it isnt & it just doesnt have those times for someone- what then? When you think about it- its not that hard a concept to grapple with -its actually very simple- but they will not even attempt to think about it!

Tottaly. I think it's because they would feel guilty in their soul if they didn't do everything in their power to save a life. Good intentions like I said, but it's not appropriate for everyone, and it's unfair to make that decision for people. You can be against suicide and I'll have no problem with you, it's when they try to stop people from their own choices I get upset. If somebody's wants to die, they probably have a reason, and they owe zero explanation to anybody. Nobody here should be forced to justify their want for death by a predetermined checklist. Like, most of them lifers can only entertain suicide for terminally ill people. I'm glad they can at least fucking get that, but it goes deeper then diagnosis's sometimes.

yeah - its cant certainly go deeper than a diagnosis as you rightly say-they are many multifaceted & complex reasons why someone feels this way- or sometimes simple, clear & should be graspable reasons too- but they wont- for me - im in the position of weird these people feel guilt now- when ive been in alot of difficult, tragic circumstantes ( that have all led to this) throughout my life & been obviously in need of attention, help, love, care etc, and they didnt feel the guilt required to step in during those times only after years of ignoring me - and now, suddenly now they feel the need to step in, its taken me to get to this stage! - sometimes sadly there is such a thing as -too little-too damn late- if they had wanted to ease my suffering earlier they could have-they could have maybe helped me much much sooner & i might, just might have been ok, and yet now ironically in trying to stop me they are once again- causing more distress & prolonging it.

 

[I’vehadenough]

Sometimes you do know. If you have a condition that gets worse with time, then you know it won't get better lol. I told a therapist to imagine youre locked in a glass coffin the rest of your life, and all you can do is look out and see people enjoying their lives. There is no way out of this. Do you really want to live through that? She had no answer

 

[MaybeSoon]

Protecting fellow humans and wanting to save people from harm is a natural response for most people. Yes it's irritating and it'd be nice if everyone accepted that killing yourself is fine so we could exit without shame and guilt but it's not the way it works unfortunately.

I think you have to be or have been suicidal at some point to understand.

 

[PDAnnie2610]

Only those who know pain earn the right and privilege to tell those in pain to persevere on. Otherwise it's BS to me.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Sometimes you do know. If you have a condition that gets worse with time, then you know it won't get better lol. I told a therapist to imagine youre locked in a glass coffin the rest of your life, and all you can do is look out and see people enjoying their lives. There is no way out of this. Do you really want to live through that? She had no answer

poweful metaphor- no wonder she didnt no what to say- its reminds me when Stephen fry was having a debate about atheism on a breakfast program to a hardcore religous person and he just said 'bone cancer-in children' explain that? they were stumped- you could have heard a pin drop! not saying that people shouldnt have faith per se - if it works for them-but he had a point & I could see no reason why he shouldnt express his feelings on the matter...just was quite funny to see when they literally had no reponse

Only those who know pain earn the right and privilege to tell those in pain to persevere on. Otherwise it's BS to me.

very good point, simply put.

 

[I’vehadenough]

poweful metaphor- no wonder she didnt no what to say- its reminds me when Stephen fry was having a debate about atheism on a breakfast program to a hardcore religous person and he just said 'bone cancer-in children' explain that? they were stumped- you could have heard a pin drop! not saying that people shouldnt have faith per se - if it works for them-but he had a point & I could see no reason why he shouldnt express his feelings on the matter...just was quite funny to see when they literally had no reponse

very good point, simply put.

Lol yes, I was a writer, so I'm pretty good at debating anything. Napoleon said that religion is a way to keep the poor from rebelling against the rich

 

[MeltingHeart]

Lol yes, I was a writer, so I'm pretty good at debating anything. Napoleon said that religion is a way to keep the poor from rebelling against the rich

wow - thats an interesting quote! kind of above my realm of understanding but kind of makes sense. I just thought after my other post you could be a staunch christian for all i know- and then i thought - maybe i shouldnt have said that! phew. you get fed up being a writer then - or just fed up generally? - just found out one of my favourite writers ctb- something of an occupational hazard it would seem - poets in particular!

 

[Sweet emotion]

They think that death is the worst thing in life and they're wrong. They're ignorant and need a good beating. They need to get my condition or be depressed every second of every day. Let them lose their legs or something like that. Let them be in pain non stop every day and we will see if they change their minds. They make me sick to my stomach and I seriously want to spit in their faces.

 

[I’vehadenough]

wow - thats an interesting quote! kind of above my realm of understanding but kind of makes sense. I just thought after my other post you could be a staunch christian for all i know- and then i thought - maybe i shouldnt have said that! phew. you get fed up being a writer then - or just fed up generally? - just found out one of my favourite writers ctb- something of an occupational hazard it would seem - poets in particular!

Lol, no I'm not religious nor against it. Writers ctb bc they have so many emotions and they are constantly stuck in their own heads being alone so often, from my take on it. Who was your favorite writer? Hunter S Thompson killed himself too once his body couldn't function much anymore. He realized there was no point to life anymore when you can't be apart of it.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Protecting fellow humans and wanting to save people from harm is a natural response for most people. Yes it's irritating and it'd be nice if everyone accepted that killing yourself is fine so we could exit without shame and guilt but it's not the way it works unfortunately.

I think you have to be or have been suicidal at some point to understand.

I do understand the human nature side of it-it is an innate drive I suppose (just like damned SI) - but as humans we also have the capacity of imgination- we should have the ability to atleast try and perceive the plight of others and have an understanding beyond our own realm of lived experinces and set of personal narratives - thats how people exhibit sympathy or empahthy when someone is grieving for example- And yet I feel on this particular subject peoples field of vision is remarkedly narrow-there depth of human compassion- their ability to comprehend a life lived that is not their own- well it just seems to shut down- perhaps it awakens some kind of primal fear (or distaste?) in some people - as I guess in a sense it 'devalues' the very essence of all human life itself...once yr a suicidal type life is not longer a gift it become a curse- I think some people simply cant handle that idea...idk..maybe thats what they think...some of them anyways...

 

[WhiteDespair]

Performing a CtB is selfish.
Stopping a CtB is selfish.

 

[MeltingHeart]

Lol, no I'm not religious nor against it. Writers ctb bc they have so many emotions and they are constantly stuck in their own heads being alone so often, from my take on it. Who was your favorite writer? Hunter S Thompson killed himself too once his body couldn't function much anymore. He realized there was no point to life anymore when you can't be apart of it.

Love Hunter- what a ledge- I dont normally say this but I didnt even feel too sad when he ctb- it just seemed kind of so right-like he really wanted to be in control of his own personal 'story' right til the end, really sad for his wife of course-but i just think he couldnt bare the thought of bein a decrepit old man- he'd led a rich and exciting life, had written all those amazing books-cant help but feel he wanted to go out on a high note-rather than the gradual decline into old age-there are many quotes that alluded to the fact that was always how he was gonna go out- and what a funeral too! :) My favourite writer was called Richard Brautigan- he shot himself too ( even if i was in the states and had access not sure if it would be a method id have the balls to use- who knows-maybe)