Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,034
For people whose recovery is based upon addressing specific grievances pertaining to matters such as finances, employment, relationships, health and so on, I have been wondering if the most fundamental question boils to limitations, both fictional and actual, and the challenge of discerning between them despite our various cognitive distortions making accurate assessments of reality virtually impossible.

The New Age Approach
There are some circles, for example New Age belief systems, which will shamelessly declare that human potential is unlimited. We are held back only by our limiting beliefs, self-doubt and so forth. The claim that people's attitudes and thoughts affect reality is also fascinating but a bit off-limits for this discussion. Even though many of us would find these ideas triggering since we have experienced the contrary of these hyper-positive claims, the issue does deserve a deeper investigation.

The Depressive Spiral
At the other extreme, there is the mentality of someone who has been devalued since childhood and endlessly repeats a narrative of inferiority/incapability/unworthiness in their mind until the neural pathways are rock-solid. They will either self-sabotage in their engagement with the world, and/or persuade themselves to not even bother trying in the first place.

Once energy levels are low, the result is a vicious circle that would quite logically lead to suicidal ideation, even though the situations in themselves might be completely workable with the right effort and vision. (Then again, I am in such a cycle myself despite knowing all of this at an intellectual level, so go figure.)

A Balanced Approach
The unlimited potential belief has the obvious advantage of encouraging people to set lofty goals. In turn, there would be effort made in the right areas of life, an energetic sense of optimism and a feeling of wellbeing. Even though the core principle of unlimited potential is blatantly incorrect to any normal person (for example, extreme miracles such as reversing ageing or teleportation can be considered impossible with our current understanding), the mere attitude of expansive liberation will generate far superior outcomes assuming the goals being set and the available resources are reasonable. And that's the whole point.

It is a bad idea to jump off a house roof because you believe you can fly. It is also a bad idea to shut yourself in your room because you perceive that everyone hates you in a manner that is personal, pervasive and permanent. In between these extremes is a vast spectrum of possibilities, with an effective recovery strategy being contingent upon an artful blend of realistic expectations, wise use of one's energy and positively biased mindset. I'll finish up by looking at these 3 points.

Realistic expectations
Some people achieve extreme success, even from lowly beginnings or unexpected turns of events. It may be a result of lofty ambitions combined with hard work and perfect circumstances. It may come about largely by accident. Past trauma can actually fuel motivation for extraordinary change. Yet attempting to emulate this may be dangerously set up to fail, while aiming too low (eg. "I just want a partner") could also fail precisely because the underlying mindset is too uninspired to have any real energy behind it. A vision of some sort is important and should hopefully be somewhat flexible, inspiring but also attainable via concrete steps.

Wise use of energy
Escapism (indulging in online content, games, self-pity, substance abuse, excessive sleeping, etc.) has a minor role in providing an easy means of feeling better or venting in the short-term, but because the clock is always ticking, the failure to instead prioritise IRL matters of physical/mental health, socialising or striving to directly address grievances will at some point lead to a vastly inferior outcome.

Positive bias
It seems that an inaccurately inflated view of one's potential, the nature of the world and so on is a clear evolutionary benefit compared to a mindset of depressive realism. Perhaps this can be done consciously while still being grounded enough to be effective in the previous two points.
 
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BeansOfRequirement

BeansOfRequirement

Behind the guilt was compassion
Jan 26, 2021
5,747
Can confirm, things were way better when I actually thought that I was going to end up a mega-genius with a robot army. Too bad about that whole reality thing.

while aiming too low (eg. "I just want a partner") could also fail precisely because the underlying mindset is too uninspired to have any real energy behind it.
Who decides that this is too low of a goal? I can't think of anything better than not being a 24 y/o virgin, I'd choose a gf over obtaining superpowers or having unlimited money (en serio). I am completely reduced to my unmet need, and I'll die because of it.

But yeah, for most people who don't have one basic need that's incapacitating them completely, it makes sense to shoot a bit higher.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,034
Who decides that this is too low of a goal?
I could be wrong, but it seems to come as a part of a package with a reasonable lifestyle in general. If someone is in a dreadful state in terms of poverty or health, a relationship that would genuinely satisfy seems unlikely, either because the said partner wouldn't be attracted in the first place, or the other issues would prevent a decent overall outcome.
 
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Hollowillow

Hollowillow

The only place that allows negative feelings.
Aug 7, 2022
1,515
For people whose recovery is based upon addressing specific grievances pertaining to matters such as finances, employment, relationships, health and so on, I have been wondering if the most fundamental question boils to limitations, both fictional and actual, and the challenge of discerning between them despite our various cognitive distortions making accurate assessments of reality virtually impossible.

The New Age Approach
There are some circles, for example New Age belief systems, which will shamelessly declare that human potential is unlimited. We are held back only by our limiting beliefs, self-doubt and so forth. The claim that people's attitudes and thoughts affect reality is also fascinating but a bit off-limits for this discussion. Even though many of us would find these ideas triggering since we have experienced the contrary of these hyper-positive claims, the issue does deserve a deeper investigation.

The Depressive Spiral
At the other extreme, there is the mentality of someone who has been devalued since childhood and endlessly repeats a narrative of inferiority/incapability/unworthiness in their mind until the neural pathways are rock-solid. They will either self-sabotage in their engagement with the world, and/or persuade themselves to not even bother trying in the first place.

Once energy levels are low, the result is a vicious circle that would quite logically lead to suicidal ideation, even though the situations in themselves might be completely workable with the right effort and vision. (Then again, I am in such a cycle myself despite knowing all of this at an intellectual level, so go figure.)

A Balanced Approach
The unlimited potential belief has the obvious advantage of encouraging people to set lofty goals. In turn, there would be effort made in the right areas of life, an energetic sense of optimism and a feeling of wellbeing. Even though the core principle of unlimited potential is blatantly incorrect to any normal person (for example, extreme miracles such as reversing ageing or teleportation can be considered impossible with our current understanding), the mere attitude of expansive liberation will generate far superior outcomes assuming the goals being set and the available resources are reasonable. And that's the whole point.

It is a bad idea to jump off a house roof because you believe you can fly. It is also a bad idea to shut yourself in your room because you perceive that everyone hates you in a manner that is personal, pervasive and permanent. In between these extremes is a vast spectrum of possibilities, with an effective recovery strategy being contingent upon an artful blend of realistic expectations, wise use of one's energy and positively biased mindset. I'll finish up by looking at these 3 points.

Realistic expectations
Some people achieve extreme success, even from lowly beginnings or unexpected turns of events. It may be a result of lofty ambitions combined with hard work and perfect circumstances. It may come about largely by accident. Past trauma can actually fuel motivation for extraordinary change. Yet attempting to emulate this may be dangerously set up to fail, while aiming too low (eg. "I just want a partner") could also fail precisely because the underlying mindset is too uninspired to have any real energy behind it. A vision of some sort is important and should hopefully be somewhat flexible, inspiring but also attainable via concrete steps.

Wise use of energy
Escapism (indulging in online content, games, self-pity, substance abuse, excessive sleeping, etc.) has a minor role in providing an easy means of feeling better or venting in the short-term, but because the clock is always ticking, the failure to instead prioritise IRL matters of physical/mental health, socialising or striving to directly address grievances will at some point lead to a vastly inferior outcome.

Positive bias
It seems that an inaccurately inflated view of one's potential, the nature of the world and so on is a clear evolutionary benefit compared to a mindset of depressive realism. Perhaps this can be done consciously while still being grounded enough to be effective in the previous two points.
Awesome!

But in the old times, without depressed realists watching over you, as you danced around the fire carefree, the predators would have eaten your children.

Society still need us. Please hear, trust & don't hate us.
 
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S

SarRy

Student
Oct 5, 2022
192
I hear what you say. I think that a lot of people can use positivity as courage to do things they thought they couldn't. There may be a rational way to have a realistic amount of hope. It has been said that every soldier enters battle envisioning that they will win.

There is a different approach. A person can go into battle embracing their death. You do not need to believe in success to try. Foregoing emotion and simply looking mindfully at you position can make it possible to see what is and is not possible for the individual. One can struggle not because they believe they will triumph, but because they believe in the struggle. To fight to the bitter end. To show defiance to all their limitations. We all have to die someday, but we can choose to fight as long as we can.
 
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