Soulless_Angel
existence is futile
- Jul 10, 2019
- 2,225
no, they only want to feel good about themselves, make out they have potentially saved a life, don't worry they will soon forget you as soon as they deem you well and fit, even when you are not, coz you know those sorts are the experts ;)
Its not easy to help people, but sometimes if a person is good at the approach to help someone help themselves it might make all the difference. Some people know how to get to the root of the problems and then map out potential practical solutions. Sometimes we don't even know what the problem is in many cases. It may be that the person thinks this is the problem but the real issue is not being addressed lol! I do think many times the reason people can't be helped is because the approach is wrong and not everything has been tried or it's not available to them.
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Grandexit
Experienced
- Dec 4, 2019
- 200
No. How can they really help? Change the ways a malfunctioning brain works, cure chronic illness, change a society that isolates and discards so many? People say things to self soothe when they are distressed.
Most people give a suicidal person the numbers to those worthless hotlines and think they're some sort of savior because they gave you a phone number you can google yourself. A hotline that at best gives you empty platitudes, at worst, sends police ready to deprive you of liberty and lock you in a torture institution.
Most people give a suicidal person the numbers to those worthless hotlines and think they're some sort of savior because they gave you a phone number you can google yourself. A hotline that at best gives you empty platitudes, at worst, sends police ready to deprive you of liberty and lock you in a torture institution.
Myforevercharlie
Global Mod
- Feb 13, 2020
- 3,091
I do. Because I've lost to many people, who could have been saved, if someone had took them seriously. I get people here don't have the best experiences with helpers. But just saying that people only do it for selfish reasons is total bull.
I lost faith in 'the experts' and the 'real world' a long time ago. I was actually talking about people on this forum who say they want to help. Is that just what's expected of us by society or do people genuinely want to help. How far would people go to help? Am I delusional looking to anyone but myself!
Grandexit
Experienced
- Dec 4, 2019
- 200
We're here to listen, maybe advise. Nobody can save anyone. A person has to want to keep going. Even locking someone away at a psychiatric "treatment " center doesn't help. If someone is determined enough, they eventually ctb. Also, if someone is determined enough they find a way to tough it out (unless they have a terminal health situation). You can throw someone a life jacket, but you can't make them wear it.
Are you looking for someone to try and help you? Are you asking for assistance?
No I'm not looking for anyone to help - its all gone beyond that. I just got the impression from some that I had been talking to about my situation (complicated) that now I've explained it all the 'help' aspect was done, Is that people just being nosy, is that the limit to 'help' - listened now so it must be all ok, am I just being over sensitive, Etc etc etc I still plan to CTB and soon but some of those I was talking to I now feel like I'm a burden if I approach them for support at that time if that makes sense
but I must also say I've had very mixed responses and experiences in the forum so maybe thats just the more negative people that I seem to come across
Clut
Member
- Feb 28, 2020
- 68
I think some people do want to help but freak out if you get too dark. So that's why they send you the numbers because they think 'experts"are more equipped to help you than they are. People who just share the numbers on Facebook and have no time for you if you actually want to talk are the ones that annoy me. I personally would love to help people overcome their demons but I'm not a very good role model when I cant even do it for myself
Grandexit
Experienced
- Dec 4, 2019
- 200
Im confused. So you are looking for someone to advise you on how to get help?
At best people can share space with you and be sympathetic, maybe tell you something that has helped them. But most of us here are just civilians. If you're looking for crisis response... I'm not sure how those of us here can help.
What does help look like to you? How can someone reach you enough to give you a lifesaver? Would you put it on and swim to shore as hard as you can, if someone reached you?
At best people can share space with you and be sympathetic, maybe tell you something that has helped them. But most of us here are just civilians. If you're looking for crisis response... I'm not sure how those of us here can help.
What does help look like to you? How can someone reach you enough to give you a lifesaver? Would you put it on and swim to shore as hard as you can, if someone reached you?
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Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
Yeah that happens here , from time to time , don't take it personal
I don't think they are nosy . Few here sadly think that "talking helps" , which I disagree vehemently (like you:) . Others here may feel your story is too big and take a step back , remember everyone here is in distress , not always easy to listen to others... It's not an excuse for rude behaviour , or people disappearing in the midst of conversation etc , I don't know what happened or what you experienced here , but anyways I'm not trying to defend anyone just explaining things are shit . Okay so what happened ? lolAre you asking this about people's feedback when you talk here , on SS ? Or is that what you were told , God forbid ? If the former , then yeah probably , like all of us lol . We're all over sensitive due to our situation . If it's the latter , people saying you're over sensitive , that id a bad feedback to give a suicidal person / someone in distress .
lanitoasmr
Member
- Mar 7, 2020
- 69
they say "relax" or "calm down" as if that works.
Beautiful_Disgrace
Invisible shadow
- Mar 8, 2020
- 134
I do believe there are people out there with the empathetic capability of wanting to help someone who is truly lost. But not everyone who says they want to help are able to. If they lack the experience or the awareness to realize what they are committing to when they try to help someone with mental illness, they will do harm to not only you, but themselves.
My boyfriend of 6 years has wanted to "help" but didn't realize that meant more than just helping one time. It meant ongoing episodes of depression that lasted for weeks, sometimes months. Now he doesn't bother as much anymore, and is more annoyed than anything. So I stopped asking him for help.
My boyfriend of 6 years has wanted to "help" but didn't realize that meant more than just helping one time. It meant ongoing episodes of depression that lasted for weeks, sometimes months. Now he doesn't bother as much anymore, and is more annoyed than anything. So I stopped asking him for help.
Yeah that happens here , from time to time , don't take it personal
Are you asking this about people's feedback when you talk here , on SS ? Or is that what you were told , God forbid ? If the former , then yeah probably , like all of us lol . We're all over sensitive due to our situation . If it's the latter , people saying you're over sensitive , that id a bad feedback to give a suicidal person / someone in distress .
I'm not going to say too much on here because as you say everyone is in distress and can only cope with other peoples issues to a certain degree, and I dont want to make anyone feel bad. I'll pm you xx
Yes .... just relax and take it easy. Rest up for a while and you will feel better - the wonders of the crisis line!!they say "relax" or "calm down" as if that works.
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GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
In a case like this, I would take this approach: Acknowledgement for the help received this far; saying how it helped and why I valued it; then ask, "Would you be willing to [specific help being sought like advice, sounding board, input/opinion, etc]?" and if they say yes, move forward with specifics. If they say no, the well is dry and it's time to seek another.
I've found that people do want to help, but what they consider helping and what one finds helpful may differ. Being specific about the input wanted is a good guide for the helpers. However, sometimes folks will focus on something else in which they do feel helpful.
For instance:
"This is my story, does anyone else have the same problem?"
Folks overlook the question, focus on the story, and start giving unsolicited advice because they see potential for a solution and are trying to help. People are solution-focused.
Or,
"X is my story, Y is my solution, how do I go about Y? I only want to discuss Y."
That last sentence sets a clear boundary. Some folks may not have any advice to give about Y, or disagree that Y is the solution, and start focusing on X because then they don't feel helpless and unable to contribute to a request for help. When that happens, I comment, "A gentle reminder..." and insert the quote "I only want to discuss Y." The broken record generally gets things back on track. Another solution is to not share the story at all, and if folks ask, answer that you're not willing to share it. If they can't address Y, then rationally, the one asking for help needs to accept they are not able to receive help from this source, it is simply not available. Like trying to coax beer from a water fountain, it just ain't gonna happen.
This isn't just a forum issue, this happens irl. Helping is often ultimately about the helper; if they are motivated to help, it's possible it's because it helps them feel good to solve something for someone, a problem which feels bad to them, and they sometimes feel helpless if they can't. It's often a boundary issue and can be toxic for both helper and helpee, like co-dependence - that is, not being able to clean up someone else's problem and not being able to handle that it still exists; the helper feels powerless and can't accept that other people have problems outside of their control.
Like a neighbor with a messy yard, they want the neighbor to clean it up or they want to step in and clean it up themselves, but they don't consider the yard remaining unsightly to them to be an option. They may spend their resources on cleaning up the yard and feel resentful when the neighbor doesn't maintain it, but if the neighbor is okay with the mess, the neighbor doesn't have a problem, so they would do better to use their resources to maintain their own yard, and let the neighbor own their own problems. If the neighbor doesn't like the mess, they have to be motivated to do something about it themselves and find their own resources, including when they feel that the resources offered by others don't serve.
Does any of what I wrote make sense? Sorry if it seems convoluted. Please let me know if I need to clarify or simplify. Or if it just wasn't...helpful.
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they say "relax" or "calm down" as if that works.
Or the abominable "chillax"... (please, someone give me a meto now, I just put in a new carpet, don't want to be sick and ruin it)
In a case like this, I would take this approach: Acknowledgement for the help received this far; saying how it helped and why I valued it; then ask, "Would you be willing to [specific help being sought like advice, sounding board, input/opinion, etc]?" and if they say yes, move forward with specifics. If they say no, the well is dry and it's time to seek another.
I've found that people do want to help, but what they consider helping and what one finds helpful may differ. Being specific about the input wanted is a good guide for the helpers. However, sometimes folks will focus on something else in which they do feel helpful.
For instance:
"This is my story, does anyone else have the same problem?"
Folks overlook the question, focus on the story, and start giving unsolicited advice because they see potential for a solution and are trying to help. People are solution-focused.
Or,
"X is my story, Y is my solution, how do I go about Y? I only want to discuss Y."
That last sentence sets a clear boundary. Some folks may not have any advice to give about Y, or disagree that Y is the solution, and start focusing on X because then they don't feel helpless and unable to contribute to a request for help. When that happens, I comment, "A gentle reminder..." and insert the quote "I only want to discuss Y." The broken record generally gets things back on track. Another solution is to not share the story at all, and if folks ask, answer that you're not willing to share it. If they can't address Y, then rationally, the one asking for help needs to accept they are not able to receive help from this source, it is simply not available. Like trying to coax beer from a water fountain, it just ain't gonna happen.
This isn't just a forum issue, this happens irl. Helping is often ultimately about the helper; if they are motivated to help, it's possible it's because it helps them feel good to solve something for someone, a problem which feels bad to them, and they sometimes feel helpless if they can't. It's often a boundary issue and can be toxic for both helper and helpee, like co-dependence - that is, not being able to clean up someone else's problem and not being able to handle that it still exists; the helper feels powerless and can't accept that other people have problems outside of their control.
Like a neighbor with a messy yard, they want the neighbor to clean it up or they want to step in and clean it up themselves, but they don't consider the yard remaining unsightly to them to be an option. They may spend their resources on cleaning up the yard and feel resentful when the neighbor doesn't maintain it, but if the neighbor is okay with the mess, the neighbor doesn't have a problem, so they would do better to use their resources to maintain their own yard, and let the neighbor own their own problems. If the neighbor doesn't like the mess, they have to be motivated to do something about it themselves and find their own resources, including when they feel that the resources offered by others don't serve.
Does any of what I wrote make sense? Sorry if it seems convoluted. Please let me know if I need to clarify or simplify. Or if it just wasn't...helpful.
Yes I am with you on what you are saying. As general rules it is helpful to remember. I think I just maybe came across a couple of bad apples and I'm fairly down anyway so the bad apples emphasise the low mood
pillow933
Student
- Mar 7, 2020
- 115
I think people do, and the fact this forum exists is a testament to that. Besides the obvious talk of suicide, you don't have to spend much time reading to see people who genuinely care about others here.
I would say the majority of people want to help, they just wouldn't know where to start. If you've never experienced what a lot of people here have experienced then it's incredibly difficult to even begin to empathise and offer any sort of support beyond just 'being there' for someone.
I would say the majority of people want to help, they just wouldn't know where to start. If you've never experienced what a lot of people here have experienced then it's incredibly difficult to even begin to empathise and offer any sort of support beyond just 'being there' for someone.
I have met a few people who seem to genuinely care about others on here, but as I said earlier I think I found some of the bad apples as well. Normally people walk past them but when they are low that is not so easy to do.
I have been supporting quote a lot of people in here and it seems to fall into two groups - those with a mental/physical illness and those with living situations they cannot cope with. I have some training in mental illness but not enough to consider myself qualified to support it in this respect and my reasons for CTB are situational so I understand that to some degree and totally agree that there is a lot of cases where there isn't anything else but to 'be there', I've just been made to feel that going back to some who I had spoken to at length is now considered as a nuisance and that isn't helpful to anyone. Not all cases just some.
pillow933
Student
- Mar 7, 2020
- 115
I guess it's only natural though that in a forum where so many of us are angry/frustrated/upset in our lives that there are people who might come across as unfriendly/unfeeling some of the time. Tbh, most of the people I've ever come across irl are unfriendly, so I guess it's just about really valuing those who care about us even if they're complete strangers.
waterbottleman
Not a person
- Sep 30, 2019
- 721
I think only people who have personally had suicidal thoughts and/or serious depression can actually help because only they know what it's like to feel the way we do.
I often hear normal people say things like "oh just be around your friends/family and in a few weeks you'll feel a lot better." Normal people phrase suicide/serious depression as though it's just a temporary feeling that can go away if you just do something fun. They think it's similar to when they feel sadness over say a breakup or something, that overtime the negative feelings will pass.
They don't realize that these issues and the way we feel builds and builds for a long time, and the dark cloud of depression follows you everywhere. Even when you're doing something that normally would make you happy, depression can take you out of the situation and you can't connect to something that normally would make you happy.
I don't blame normal people, I know they have good intentions. But they just don't get it, they don't understand what it's like to be clinically depressed or on the brink of suicide. It's a dark hole that you're stuck in 24/7, it isn't a temporary feeling that goes away.
I often hear normal people say things like "oh just be around your friends/family and in a few weeks you'll feel a lot better." Normal people phrase suicide/serious depression as though it's just a temporary feeling that can go away if you just do something fun. They think it's similar to when they feel sadness over say a breakup or something, that overtime the negative feelings will pass.
They don't realize that these issues and the way we feel builds and builds for a long time, and the dark cloud of depression follows you everywhere. Even when you're doing something that normally would make you happy, depression can take you out of the situation and you can't connect to something that normally would make you happy.
I don't blame normal people, I know they have good intentions. But they just don't get it, they don't understand what it's like to be clinically depressed or on the brink of suicide. It's a dark hole that you're stuck in 24/7, it isn't a temporary feeling that goes away.
I agree that you have to have some experience to empathise. Before I became depressed I didn't understand it at all although I hope I wasn't one of those people who brushed it aside. I dont know that in all cases it builds up over time, I think it can get worse over time. In my circumstances one day I didn't have it and the next day I did and it has got worse. It is that depression that nothing makes you happy and no you cant connect to anything and people that say go out and do something you enjoy are in danger of being decapitated!!! There is nothing. Same for those 'just trying to make you smile' people. However for those that are dealing with situational depression (mine is situational) then I think if the situation is changed to an acceptable one then the depression will lift but I have no experience of that as much situation hasn't changed. Its just how I feel.
Quarky00
Enlightened
- Dec 17, 2019
- 1,956
OP was attacked and harassed in other threads , in a nasty vicious way . I'm terribly sorry for that
This behaviour does not represents this community . I think depressed people (and others here) can emphatize and help . I'm aware we're all in distress , so it's sometimes hard , and we lash out . But taking cheap shots at others for the fun of it -- uncalled for .
You are safe here
As for other issues , which may be disappointing but less harmful , well , some people will come through , some won't . OP is in a tough corner . Some trying to help sound like a helpline , dissuading OP . Though they may do so (and even should) it would be more helpful to be attentive and thoughtful , instead of rushing to solutions and suggestions that may be irrelevant to the situation . I'm sure OP tried hard and a lot .
If you are in a position of a "listener" it's always best to ask rather than supply answers . I have seen this behaviour more and more in recent months , and I've said many times -- it's disheartening . Another member ("spinster") was in despair because she won't have kids , barely leaves bed , and being suggested to go out to date?
I know people mean well , but you're way off . Throwing solutions does not work . Cut it out . I won't use harsher words . You are too eager "to help" . Stop and listen .
This behaviour does not represents this community . I think depressed people (and others here) can emphatize and help . I'm aware we're all in distress , so it's sometimes hard , and we lash out . But taking cheap shots at others for the fun of it -- uncalled for .
You are safe here
As for other issues , which may be disappointing but less harmful , well , some people will come through , some won't . OP is in a tough corner . Some trying to help sound like a helpline , dissuading OP . Though they may do so (and even should) it would be more helpful to be attentive and thoughtful , instead of rushing to solutions and suggestions that may be irrelevant to the situation . I'm sure OP tried hard and a lot .
If you are in a position of a "listener" it's always best to ask rather than supply answers . I have seen this behaviour more and more in recent months , and I've said many times -- it's disheartening . Another member ("spinster") was in despair because she won't have kids , barely leaves bed , and being suggested to go out to date?
I know people mean well , but you're way off . Throwing solutions does not work . Cut it out . I won't use harsher words . You are too eager "to help" . Stop and listen .
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GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
I've seen some of the conversations, and I hear what you are saying here. I want to address what you bought up in this comment and in the thread. Please know I am approaching you with compassion and honesty, and a goal to clarify, no judgment or condemnation whatsoever.
First, the thread is a little confusing. If I'm reading it right, you have two issues: people who have helped you in PM but the wells seem to have potentially run dry for further help, and harsh-seeming responses on some threads. Because you are feeling low, the issues are all running together and you feel like no one really wants to help, is that accurate?
Second, about the bad apples. Let's call their advice babies, and the way the advice was presented as dirty bathwater.
Let me first give a personal example. I was reading a self-defense book by a guy who uses pretty harsh rhetoric. He said something to the effect of, "If you have PTSD and are going to whine about violence done to you in the past, this method isn't for you." I was so offended! But what he said also slapped me awake. I did indeed have some whininess, and I needed to let that go to get tougher. I've read other stuff of his since and I think he's a right ass who has self-serving rather than altruistic motives to help people, but I'm not going to throw out that valuable baby because I don't like him or his dirty water. I got something I needed, and I no longer read his stuff. Done.
When I read things that bother me, I can get fired up and reject. Sometimes, when I'm being mindful, I will go back and rephrase what that person wrote so I can hear them and their perspective. If someone says, "You have to," I rephrase it as them saying, "I have to," and realize it's about their belief. If someone is being harsh with me, and I'm in a mindful and receptive place, I look to see if they're trying to protect me from a self-harming belief, like the guy commenting about PTSD and whininess, or if they're trying not knock the good in me down.
I want to gently say that the stuff I wrote in my previous comment about not being okay with the mess in other people's yards can be applied to the situation with your daughter. Yes, some folks spoke harshly and the bathwater was dirty, but the valuable baby was this: Don't kill yourself because your daughter's yard is a mess. If you live and take on the blame, her yard is still a mess. If you kill yourself, her yard is still a mess. She made the mess, rational conversation hasn't convinced her to clean up her mess or that it even is a mess; a conviction might do that. Protecting her from a conviction leaves two messy yards and she's still blind. Killing yourself leaves one messy yard with the same blind owner, and your yard is annihilated.
I know people were harsh, and im not them so I can't say for certain, but I think they were also yelling to get your attention. When you didn't respond with attention, blame and suspicion followed, and that was not cool, but sometimes people get harmful when their advice isn't listened to and they are attached to their views. I could be wrong, but my impression is that they didn't want you to annihilate your yard, and they couldn't stand to watch, because you present it as a valuable and perhaps even enviable yard, in spite of a bit of damage that is reparable with patience, effort, and some self-focused rather than other-focused care. Its natural to wonder, perhaps even aggressively, If that is so, why destroy it??
What I've also observed, and again I speak gently, is that you are attached to your views about your daughter, her yard, your responsibility for her yard as a mother when she is an adult, and that you're heading toward harmful behavior because of these views -- not other-harm, but self-harm. In fact, self-annihilation.
Third, if wells of previous help have run dry, folks may not have the resources to deal with all of your needs, only some. Or they may be worried about you annihilating your yard and cannot in good conscience aid you in doing that. Or it could be for some other reason I don't know because I don't read your PMs. :)
Whether I am right or in error here in any part(s) of this comment, and whether you agree or disagree, please know that I spoke because I care. I've tried to offer some resources for the protection and healing of your lovely yard, but you are not obligated to use them. I'm humble enough to know that I'm not always right, and that my resources may work in my yard but not yours. If you're determined to annihilate it with ctb, I respect your right to do whatever you choose with your own yard. But please forgive me if I see it coming like an unstoppable train and retreat to my own yard to protect my eyes and my heart.
These words are my heartfelt offering of help in response to your asking. I did my sincere best. It's not easy to say things with honesty, but I find it's more often worth the effort than not. It requires vulnerability, and that requires strength and caring enough about you as a human, your challenges, and your pain to put myself out there. If you don't view or receive it as help, that's cool. If you embrace it, reject it, or some combination of both, that's cool. Sending compassion and caring either way.
I've seen some of the conversations, and I hear what you are saying here. I want to address what you bought up in this comment and in the thread. Please know I am approaching you with compassion and honesty, and a goal to clarify, no judgment or condemnation whatsoever.
First, the thread is a little confusing. If I'm reading it right, you have two issues: people who have helped you in PM but the wells seem to have potentially run dry for further help, and harsh-seeming responses on some threads. Because you are feeling low, the issues are all running together and you feel like no one really wants to help, is that accurate?
Second, about the bad apples. Let's call their advice babies, and the way the advice was presented as dirty bathwater.
Let me first give a personal example. I was reading a self-defense book by a guy who uses pretty harsh rhetoric. He said something to the effect of, "If you have PTSD and are going to whine about violence done to you in the past, this method isn't for you." I was so offended! But what he said also slapped me awake. I did indeed have some whininess, and I needed to let that go to get tougher. I've read other stuff of his since and I think he's a right ass who has self-serving rather than altruistic motives to help people, but I'm not going to throw out that valuable baby because I don't like him or his dirty water. I got something I needed, and I no longer read his stuff. Done.
When I read things that bother me, I can get fired up and reject. Sometimes, when I'm being mindful, I will go back and rephrase what that person wrote so I can hear them and their perspective. If someone says, "You have to," I rephrase it as them saying, "I have to," and realize it's about their belief. If someone is being harsh with me, and I'm in a mindful and receptive place, I look to see if they're trying to protect me from a self-harming belief, like the guy commenting about PTSD and whininess, or if they're trying not knock the good in me down.
I want to gently say that the stuff I wrote in my previous comment about not being okay with the mess in other people's yards can be applied to the situation with your daughter. Yes, some folks spoke harshly and the bathwater was dirty, but the valuable baby was this: Don't kill yourself because your daughter's yard is a mess. If you live and take on the blame, her yard is still a mess. If you kill yourself, her yard is still a mess. She made the mess, rational conversation hasn't convinced her to clean up her mess or that it even is a mess; a conviction might do that. Protecting her from a conviction leaves two messy yards and she's still blind. Killing yourself leaves one messy yard with the same blind owner, and your yard is annihilated.
I know people were harsh, and im not them so I can't say for certain, but I think they were also yelling to get your attention. When you didn't respond with attention, blame and suspicion followed, and that was not cool, but sometimes people get harmful when their advice isn't listened to and they are attached to their views. I could be wrong, but my impression is that they didn't want you to annihilate your yard, and they couldn't stand to watch, because you present it as a valuable and perhaps even enviable yard, in spite of a bit of damage that is reparable with patience, effort, and some self-focused rather than other-focused care. Its natural to wonder, perhaps even aggressively, If that is so, why destroy it??
What I've also observed, and again I speak gently, is that you are attached to your views about your daughter, her yard, your responsibility for her yard as a mother when she is an adult, and that you're heading toward harmful behavior because of these views -- not other-harm, but self-harm. In fact, self-annihilation.
Third, if wells of previous help have run dry, folks may not have the resources to deal with all of your needs, only some. Or they may be worried about you annihilating your yard and cannot in good conscience aid you in doing that. Or it could be for some other reason I don't know because I don't read your PMs. :)
Whether I am right or in error here in any part(s) of this comment, and whether you agree or disagree, please know that I spoke because I care. I've tried to offer some resources for the protection and healing of your lovely yard, but you are not obligated to use them. I'm humble enough to know that I'm not always right, and that my resources may work in my yard but not yours. If you're determined to annihilate it with ctb, I respect your right to do whatever you choose with your own yard. But please forgive me if I see it coming like an unstoppable train and retreat to my own yard to protect my eyes and my heart.
These words are my heartfelt offering of help in response to your asking. I did my sincere best. It's not easy to say things with honesty, but I find it's more often worth the effort than not. It requires vulnerability, and that requires strength and caring enough about you as a human, your challenges, and your pain to put myself out there. If you don't view or receive it as help, that's cool. If you embrace it, reject it, or some combination of both, that's cool. Sending compassion and caring either way.
I am a little Gobsmacked by what you have written and can only say thankyou for taking the time to do so. I dont agree with all of what you have said but thats fine as I know I dont have to and I know you meant no malice in saying it. In regard to my daughter (to address something you said) I totally get people's views on what she has done and its her responsibility etc etc etc but I dont feel I need to add to it. However I feel that is irrelevant to a big degree because my plans to CTB are because I cant emotionally take being separated from my family, as in both daughters. Dealing with the legal aspect is something I can relatively cope with, to a degree anyway. Solicitors are involved etc etc etc but whatever I do I have lost my family and that is my heartbreak and that is what I cant stand. Tidying up her yard is a by product to a big degree. People dont understand that I have lost my family without knowing the reasons why and tell me that kids go though a phase and they will come back blah blah blah but they wont if they are in prison or there is court orders so I have to explain that and then the focus is on that rather than I have lost my family. Its like I am grieving their death. I hope I have explained that a little better so you can see the reasons I want to CTB is not due to a messy yard but a bereavement? On the other note, people who have offered support and have been given a lot more details than I have put in open forum have proved a comfort because it is complicated and not having to keep repeating the story is a huge relief. To then get abuse shocked me hence this post. Again though I thankyou for your post and see nothing wrong in it at all. I totally get what you are saying and couldn't have put it better myself.
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
@Lostnotfound, I forgot about the bereavement part being your biggest reason. Of course I could come up with much to say, but I respect your right to choose how to deal with it and give that precedence. My family and I have not spoken for years. I understand the difficulty of managing others' judgments, last I heard my mother was still telling people we have a relationship, even though she was the one who ended it when I called out abuse and stopped accepting the family story that it either wasn't abuse or wasn't that bad. Your perspective gives me some compassion for her lying, I didn't expect that. I'm sorry that what ignorant and judgmental others think impacts and hurts you. If I could I would ship you some of my strength to shield you from it so that it would just ping off.
Thank you for your kind response. It is always a little scary to speak as I did and wait to see how it is received. I've always been a bit of an unintentional gobsmacker, I don't know how else to be and still be fully myself. I am grateful that you took my words in the spirit in which they were intended.
I wish only the best for you. I wish you had fulfilling and life-affirming support outside of your family. I don't think the world will be a better place without you in it, but I deeply resect if you feel it is better for you to not be in the world, so if that is ultimately your choice, I wish you the most peaceful withdrawal from it, and total peace.
and
Thank you for your kind response. It is always a little scary to speak as I did and wait to see how it is received. I've always been a bit of an unintentional gobsmacker, I don't know how else to be and still be fully myself. I am grateful that you took my words in the spirit in which they were intended.
I wish only the best for you. I wish you had fulfilling and life-affirming support outside of your family. I don't think the world will be a better place without you in it, but I deeply resect if you feel it is better for you to not be in the world, so if that is ultimately your choice, I wish you the most peaceful withdrawal from it, and total peace.
and @Lostnotfound, I forgot about the bereavement part being your biggest reason. Of course I could come up with much to say, but I respect your right to choose how to deal with it and give that precedence. My family and I have not spoken for years. I understand the difficulty of managing others' judgments, last I heard my mother was still telling people we have a relationship, even though she was the one who ended it when I called out abuse and stopped accepting the family story that it either wasn't abuse or wasn't that bad. Your perspective gives me some compassion for her lying, I didn't expect that. I'm sorry that what ignorant and judgmental others think impacts and hurts you. If I could I would ship you some of my strength to shield you from it so that it would just ping off.
Thank you for your kind response. It is always a little scary to speak as I did and wait to see how it is received. I've always been a bit of an unintentional gobsmacker, I don't know how else to be and still be fully myself. I am grateful that you took my words in the spirit in which they were intended.
I wish only the best for you. I wish you had fulfilling and life-affirming support outside of your family. I don't think the world will be a better place without you in it, but I deeply resect if you feel it is better for you to not be in the world, so if that is ultimately your choice, I wish you the most peaceful withdrawal from it, and total peace.
I would take from her telling people that she still has a relationship with you that she still craves that relationship. It is easier for a child to walk away from a parent (I did it myself) than it is for a parent to accept the child has walked away. The bond a mother feels for her child seems to be much stronger than the bond a child feels for its mother. Well thats my experience anyway. Maybe the door is still open to you if you want it. I know as a mother that it doesn't matter what my children did, I could never stop loving them and I would never want them not to be in my life. Your choices are your choices but just another perspective for you to consider.
Thankyou for your well wishes. No one will ever fully understand, its far too complicated for that but I appreciate your thought and trying to offer comfort and solace when I need it. X
GoodPersonEffed
Brevity is my middle name, but my name was TL
- Jan 11, 2020
- 6,727
She ended the relationship. She signed the email from her, my father, and the family pets.
Years later, she used an old photo of her and I as her Facebook profile picture, and commented in response to one of her friends that she and I still thanked the person for throwing the event. I exist only as a ventriloquist dummy for her. But I exercised compassionate boundaries and got her to delete the photo without outing her to friends and extended family.
Anyhow, don't want to hijack your thread, just clear up the misunderstanding. Like I said, your perspective made me a little more compassionate toward my mother in spite of her offenses. Public opinion can be a powerful motivator for all kinds of actions, and it takes a lot of fortitude and sometimes external support to be able to withstand it. The Greek chorus has caused more than one person throughout history to catch the bus, the boat, the oxcart, the first vehicle after the invention of the wheel....
PhilosOfDoom
Experienced
- Nov 22, 2019
- 207
I feel as most here are dishing unfair assumptions based their own personal tragedies, and it's tainted their view of some. I feel as if most want to help. Can they? Depends on what personally makes *you* feel better, and what's mode of coping. But their intentions are usually fully good. They help in the only ways they know how most of the time. I have personal experience with this. There's unlikely to be a study to this, so it's purely based of others and my own personal experiences. Therefore, I am not saying this is true, it may not be. It's my own personal experience, as others have also noted. You can't really get any objective results from this, asides from perhaps a survey.
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