A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Sorry, this is a bit messy.
https://www.drugs.com/ppa/pentobarbital.html


Pharmacology
Barbiturate with sedative, hypnotic, and anticonvulsant properties. Barbiturates depress the sensory cortex, decrease motor activity, alter cerebellar function, and produce drowsiness, sedation, and hypnosis. In high doses, barbiturates exhibit anticonvulsant activity; barbiturates produce dose-dependent respiratory depression; reduce brain metabolism and cerebral blood flow in order to decrease intracranial pressure

Krauss 2006: Children and Adults: Sedation: IM: 10 to 15 minutes; IV: Almost immediate, within 3 to 5 minutes; Oral, Rectal: 15 to 60 minutes

The LD50: various animals, mouse 170 mg/kg, dog 80 mg/kg, rat 125 mg/kg. Human: varying from 36 mg/kg,
I don't know the source http://absolutewrite.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-106250.html
'If you look up the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) for it, it gives the LD50 as ~120 mg/kg body mass. That means that half of a group of rats died from an oral dose of 120 mg per kg of mass. Which, if we assume that can be extrapolated to humans, means a dose of ~12g for a 220 lb person would have a 50:50 chance of killing him. That's probably about 10-12 mL, depending on the density.'

Lots of sources, different numbers. If it were 12 gr for LD50 it would be disappointing, considering that LD50 means.

It's also a bit odd that soem sources have many people dying so fast, when here the onset of action is indicated as 15 to 60 min.

Done properly, it should work for peopel with no tolerance.

I know this post is a mess, but I'll leave it at that.
 
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Empty RN

Empty RN

Student
Oct 25, 2018
107
I'm going to look at this more tomorrow thanks for sharing
 
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L

Lovemykids

Specialist
Oct 1, 2018
349
Following
 
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Sayo

Sayo

Not 2B
Aug 22, 2018
520
Don't use the rodent LD50, it's too high. The LD50 varies greatly among different animals and can be found for a lot of them. It's lower in almost all of them.

The source for the various LD50s is probably Sax's Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials, 11th Edition.

The deaths occur as expected for that onset of action, considering they are taking a massive overdose of something that induces respiratory depression in overdose.

Use toxnet as an aggregator.
 
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L

Lovemykids

Specialist
Oct 1, 2018
349
I know arak want to be 100% certain in thin so do I

Hopefully more details will comes to light

Worst case Im gonna experience it my self since getting hands on N in few days for sure
 
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Sayo

Sayo

Not 2B
Aug 22, 2018
520
I'm aware, as someone else with cross tolerance issues, but using the rat ld50 in calculations is misleading. I know the sample set of humans in end of life clinics is not perfect for this purpose as they are small/frail/medically assisted, but it is closer than lab rats.

There was a case this year of someone who survived 20g of pentobarbital powder ingestion, because he immediately sought medical help and was resuscitated. He was in a coma for ten days though with no brainstem reflexes for five. Incredible that he even survived, but the thing is really just not to be found - if he hadn't wanted to be saved, he definitely would have died. The report can be found on pubmed. Same report claims 30 mg/L concentration in average pentobarbital fatalities, based on the rest of the literature - 20g gave him nearly 4x that (converting doses into plasma concentration is not a general thing).
 
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A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Thing is, I have a massive tolerance (mostly clonazepam but also other sedatives) and my CNS is quite messed up. I've been exposed to some high potency benzodiazepines that also act on the brain stem.

It would just be horrid if I survived with brain damage. And reduced brain metabolism can reduce the need for oxygen.

And I'd wonder about combining this with SA or SN but I know it's so easy to mess up.
 
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JustAboutDone

Illuminated
Jan 1, 2019
3,532
@Korrok the information on here might also help
 
A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@JustAboutDone ,

Thanks for bumping this !

Sayo made some good points. ' I know the sample set of humans in end of life clinics is not perfect for this purpose as they are small/frail/medically assisted, but it is closer than lab rats.'

'
 
Last edited:
J

JustAboutDone

Illuminated
Jan 1, 2019
3,532
@Arak There seemed some useful information in this and I thought it might benefit @Korrok too as he is seeking similar results
 
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