Venting Overused argument I keep seeing against suicide.

[Circles]

Lately I've noticed while reading in the comments on Reddit and a lot of them discuss about how if you're mentally ill in any capacity that you're not of sound mind whatsoever nor capable to make any rational decisions and that you're judgement is being clouded and distorted by emotions, mental illness, depression and such. I kept thinking so what especially if you're in mental pain for years then it sure as fuck can be rational.
Would like anybody's opinion on this.

 

[Boonks]

LOL. Ring a round the rosie baloney. Circular, Circles. Crapola with a cherry on top.

If you're "mentally ill", your quality of life is ransacked if not robbed, and if you're optionless at a dead-end, hopeless, you're going to want to off yourself. That's it, case closed. Human nature. Our decisions are influenced if not based on our emotions, and not rationale.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

most of us have had depression and/or suicidal thoughts since our early teens yet it´s irrational to commit suicide to free ourselves from over a decade of continues suffering?

There is nothing rational about staying alive just to waste year after year in a inside a little box of an apartment while everyone is out living life that we can´t because of social anxiety, apathy, anhedonia, depression etc. what quality of life is that!? But healthy people have that idea that humans have to stay alive no matter what. I am 25 and have wasted 5 years doing nothing but sit inside an apartment with no real friends and no new memories I lived more in 6 month at 16 than I have in the last 7 years!!

 

[SlackJim]

any decision made by anyone weather mentally ill or not is going to be clouded by emotions. Who is to say that depression is not the sane state of consciousness, and people who find meaning and are happy are insane? We are all perceiving the universe through the lens that is the human body: I don't think anyone has any authority to say who's view is correct or sane.

 

[Circles]

most of us have had depression and/or suicidal thoughts since our early teens yet it´s irrational to commit suicide to free ourselves from over a decade of continues suffering?

'But have you tried mushrooms and meditation yet?' (sarcasm)

any decision made by anyone weather mentally ill or not is going to be clouded by emotions. Who is to say that depression is not the sane state of consciousness, and people who find meaning and are happy are insane? We are all perceiving the universe through the lens that is the human body: I don't think anyone has any authority to say who's view is correct or sane.

Yep it's all subjective, different strokes for different folks, no one knows wtf anybody else is going through besides themselves.

 

[BPD_LE]

Personally I think people can't distinguish between someone who may suffer a few bouts of mental illness over their lifetime and those who live with it 24/7. I'm 'labeled' with a personality disorder. I don't consider myself mentally ill, this is just me, I've always been this way.

 

[Rachel74]

I have bipolar, I've had it 22 years and I'm definitely of sound mind. I live 24/7 with this and I have the right to a dignified death.

 

[GlowingCactus]

They're just repeating statements coming from the pseudoscience that is psychiatry. Ask them to provide evidence to support their claims, they won't be able to do it.

 

[RandomMan]

Idk man. It illness runs in my family and when it hits it hits hard.although relative has become to the point he can work again after so many years of strong meds and then one small switch changed it all. These docs are lazy. And their practice can't be thorough with 15 minute visits.

 

[TheGoodGuy]

Personally I think people can't distinguish between someone who may suffer a few bouts of mental illness over their lifetime and those who live with it 24/7

This is so true most people don´t know what real hardship in life is like.

 

[Elias]

That's an excellent tool to control people and strip them from their own agency. You flag someone as crazy, not thinking straight, incapable of making their own decisions, and now suddenly you're allowed to impede on their rights, on their freedom, and you can basically pump them with medicine and give them mandatory appointments that you can bill to the insurance. Keep the family on the lookout for any "worrying behavior or words" and you get yourself a nice profitable loop. Or maybe I'm too cynical and we're indeed incapable of thinking for ourselves about our own damn life. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That said, I've always thought my own life that I had a filter that could be clouding my own perception of life, but at this point I believe it's just who I am. Not some kind of disease that can be separated from my own self, the "disease" is my own consciousness and I only know one cure.

 

[Heart of Ice]

I personally haven't been depressed or had a mental illness, so I can't say anything on that matter. And while I believe suicide can absolutely be a rational choice, I do think the argument has some weight to it. I'm guessing a high percentage of depressed people who are suicidal wouldn't be if they weren't depressed. Then it's just a matter of can the depression be cured. Based on what I''ve read here, it seems medication seems to be more harmful than good, but I guess it helps someone and they aren't posting here to tell us how antidepressants made their life better.

 

[Amz_Falls]

Personally I think people can't distinguish between someone who may suffer a few bouts of mental illness over their lifetime and those who live with it 24/7. I'm 'labeled' with a personality disorder. I don't consider myself mentally ill, this is just me, I've always been this way.

I'm the same :-(

 

[Disintegration]

Psychology is Greek for the study of the soul. Before you give the modern medical community and psychology any type of legitimate consideration, please carefully consider what it is even all about. What is mental illness? What is mentally well? Is it a sign of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society? Whoever is giving advice about the "mentally ill" not being well enough to make lucid decisions should quite possibly have their own heads examined themselves.

I'm pretty sure that they say insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I believe that would make the whole of civilization completely off their rockers. Most of what we consider mental illnesses can be attributed to a fucked up world that took an otherwise well species and poisoned them, both environmentally and through poor interpersonal and intrapersonal relationships.

Fuck modern medicine and their often misguided solutions for human problems.

 

[Boonks]

Psychology is Greek for the study of the soul. Before you give the modern medical community and psychology any type of legitimate consideration, please carefully consider what it is even all about. What is mental illness? What is mentally well? Is it a sign of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society? Whoever is giving advice about the "mentally ill" not being well enough to make lucid decisions should quite possibly have their own heads examined themselves.

I'm pretty sure that they say insanity is defined as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I believe that would make the whole of civilization completely off their rockers. Most of what we consider mental illnesses can be attributed to a fucked up world that took an otherwise well species and poisoned them, both environmentally and through poor interpersonal and intrapersonal relationships.

Fuck modern medicine and their often misguided solutions for human problems.

FUCKIN' A!

Ugh!

Masterful.

Well-freaking-said!

 

[Sleepwalking]

Quite often it's the blind optimism and hypocrisy that turns my stomach.
They say things can, will, get better. But I doubt they're people who've felt, at least in my case, the particular torment I endure.
Humans are an inherently social creature. Yet even in my good times, I am incapable of conversing, let alone connecting, and only end up sliding back down again.
I've tried, my god have I, but because I haven't been able to provide the unspoken currency my slide is unnoticed by everyone.
Ugh

 

[Disintegration]

Quite often it's the blind optimism and hypocrisy that turns my stomach.
They say things can, will, get better. But I doubt they're people who've felt, at least in my case, the particular torment I endure.
Humans are an inherently social creature. Yet even in my good times, I am incapable of conversing, let alone connecting, and only end up sliding back down again.
I've tried, my god have I, but because I haven't been able to provide the unspoken currency my slide is unnoticed by everyone.
Ugh

Most medical professionals are collecting a paycheck. Go through the motions and get my cookie so I can entertain myself and survive. They don't really give a shit about people who are suffering. If they did, they would do more than throw pills down your throat and label you with some form of mental discord. The mental health profession is a cold, mechanized and industrialized system with little to no form of true human compassion.

 

[Mercury6737]

I'm guessing a high percentage of depressed people who are suicidal wouldn't be if they weren't depressed. Then it's just a matter of can the depression be cured.

There is no cure for depression, only ways to "manage" it. Also, a problem with claims trying to make a depression <--> suicidal link is that they fail to acknowledge people who simply do not want to prolong their existence. For example, if an individual does not want to wake up, go to work, pay bills, and find distractions for the next four decades that person is not necessarily depressed or not thinking rationally.

 

[Heart of Ice]

There is no cure for depression, only ways to "manage" it. Also, a problem with claims trying to make a depression <--> suicidal link is that they fail to acknowledge people who simply do not want to prolong their existence. For example, if an individual does not want to wake up, go to work, pay bills, and find distractions for the next four decades that person is not necessarily depressed or not thinking rationally.

As I said, suicide can absolutely be rational. Well said.

 

[neilo99]

If I was unable to make rational decisions I would have ctb a long time ago. My mind is constantly going over rational decisions of putting myself 1st in regards to suffering or my family. What is the rational decision? It is constantly changing.

 

[Darkhaven]

That argument is plain stupidity.
I still can't accept the methodology of considering different people as "mentally ill".
If tomorrow psychiatrists announce that from now on shy or timid people are also considered mentally ill, should we accept that?
Same thing applies for depressed people, it's not a disease or illness, it's how their brains work and they ain't happy about it, so they should have the right to end it.
Thankfully there are ways we can use to put an end to our suffering and we don't need help from these horrible people.
After it's done they can bark all they want about why or how i did it, i won't ever have to hear them ever again, which is a blessing on it's own.

 

[Reyki6667]

Incurable depression since 12 with permanent suicidal ideation , natural brain function progressively disabled at 20, body disabled at 24, followed with a pletora of unsuccessful traitement, now constant fit of heart plus muscular pains brain hypertension extreme body exhaustion and 0 supply of energy.
Never really lived.
In those condition, it is rational to want death, since no cure.
And other people opinion are laced with hypocrisy and ignorance. So I don't ever give a f **k

 

[Powderedmonster]

My response to this argument is always: then people who are happy must also be irrational. Then I cite articles about how people make better, more careful decisions when they're in a bad mood

 

[Moon Flower]

I mean mental illness has illness right in the name. If someone's in favor of a sick person's right to die, that should include someone whos suffering from a mental illness as well in my opinion. It's all about bringing about an end to suffering, and not all suffering is physical

 

[Corraled]

any decision made by anyone weather mentally ill or not is going to be clouded by emotions. Who is to say that depression is not the sane state of consciousness, and people who find meaning and are happy are insane? We are all perceiving the universe through the lens that is the human body: I don't think anyone has any authority to say who's view is correct or sane.

I think of a disease as any condition that makes it harder to live the typical life arc of a member of the species. In humans, the typical arc involves being healthy and optimist until roughly the age of 40. To call the sick healthy and viceversa makes no sense because theres objective criteria to call a disease, a disease. The problem is that mental diseases have a stigma that physical diseases dont carry, so people get defensive and hide them. People also hide some physical diseases, like AIDS, because they also carry a cultural stigma. I think the word "mental trauma" is more accepted in society, people tend to be kinder to "traumatized" people than to "insane people".

 

[BlueWidow]

I was always told by psychiatric professionals when I was a teenager (around 3 or so decades ago):

" suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". GAG!

If so, then this has been one long ass temporary problem!!

I don't think there's anything irrational or "crazy" about wanting to end a mental pain or anguish that you've been in for decades and that you've tried various solutions to, but have had no success. At some point I think doing whatever it is that you have to do to end your pain is the most sane thing you can do.