On angling and positioning (for a handgun)

[Abort!]

Hello.

New user here. I was curious about the optimal angling to use when it comes down to it. I own a 9mm and have hollow points.

Behind or above the ear seems a tad risky considering the awkwardness of the placement in practice. Intraoral angled 45° upwards seems slightly risky as well. Why is inbetween the eyes, right near the bridge of the nose never mentioned? That's where snipers aim, or at least so I've heard.

The "T-box." Seems like a more straight forward shot to me, less marksmanship and crazy angles involved, and it should still hit the brainstem region? (I should mention my gun has no grip safety, so no problem with thumb-trigger activation for me.)

Then again, I don't really know my anatomy that well. I don't really care what happens as long as I'm not left a half braindead vegetable or conscious enough to experience any pain afterwards. Is the "T-box" a bad place to aim for? What's the optimal location / angle if not?


Thanks.

 

[Crow_88]

Hey! Get some comments together so you can come chat with us in doomer chat! lets talk before you do anyhting!

 

[DeathSweetDeath]

I'll go out on a limb & say if something isn't mentioned, that's because there's a reason.
A good reason.
I haven't researched it in a while, but I vaguely remember reading that it occasionally just messes up the frontal lobe, and little else. You definitely don't want to be left alive with a messed up frontal lobe.

 

[Abort!]

I'll go out on a limb & say if something isn't mentioned, that's because there's a reason.
A good reason.
I haven't researched it in a while, but I vaguely remember reading that it occasionally just messes up the frontal lobe, and little else. You definitely don't want to be left alive with a messed up frontal lobe.

Good point. I was just curious. Slightly above the ear it is.

Thank you.

 

[Forveleth]

Slightly above the ear it is.

This is NOT where to aim.

The idea with using a gun is to hit the brain stem. This will get you close to "instant death" as the brain stem controls the critical functions like breathing and heart beat. Aiming directly at the forehead puts most of the impact in the front lobe which could kill you, but also leaves a not insignificant chance of surviving with a lobotomy (purple line). The temporal lobe (above the ear) also has non-critical function so again, while possibly deadly, can leave you alive with significant brain damage (red circle) (This has been corrected by Liebestod below). Aiming through the mouth not only helps center the gun on your anatomy, but requires only a slight upward angle to hit the center of the brainstem, giving the maximum chance of the fastest death (yellow line).

You could get away with less precise aiming if you had a larger caliber gun but a 9mm (although hollow point is good) is on the smaller side so you want to give yourself the best chance possible.

I don't really care what happens as long as I'm not left a half braindead vegetable or conscious enough to experience any pain afterwards.

This is absolutely NOT the attitude to have towards suicide, especially with a gun. Plenty of people have survived with horrible injuries from aiming incorrectly. If you are going to attempt this, you need to do your research and know what you are doing and why.

On a side note, snipers aim for "center mass" meaning the middle of the head. This gives them wiggle room on all sides to make sure they still hit their target. Snipers are also usually using quite powerful, high caliber bullets that can remove significant portions of the head so precision aiming is not needed for a kill.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

If i had to use A 9mm handgun by the ear ir behind ear, or in mouth, or side of head but in the middle of head not high on the side

If u look at the Ronnie mcnut video. To me seems like a grenade . So more chance of destroying brain.

Why look at the rifle he used. Imo it was the high velocity of the bullet

Its all here the rifle he used. Nobody would have survived that

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/345652/the-suicide-of-ronnie-mcnutt-background

Ronnie used a Remington Model 700 bolt action rifle.

A bullet going 3000 to 3500 feet per second

A kilometer is 3280 feet. So that bullet was Traveling 1 kilometer per second. Picture something traveling 1 kilometer in one second. If it hits a head what will happen

 

[Abort!]

This is NOT where to aim.

The idea with using a gun is to hit the brain stem. This will get you close to "instant death" as the brain stem controls the critical functions like breathing and heart beat. Aiming directly at the forehead puts most of the impact in the front lobe which could kill you, but also leaves a not insignificant chance of surviving with a lobotomy (purple line). The temporal lobe (above the ear) also has non-critical function so again, while possibly deadly, can leave you alive with significant brain damage (red circle). Aiming through the mouth not only helps center the gun on your anatomy, but requires only a slight upward angle to hit the center of the brainstem, giving the maximum chance of the fastest death (yellow line).
View attachment 191166
You could get away with less precise aiming if you had a larger caliber gun but a 9mm (although hollow point is good) is on the smaller side so you want to give yourself the best chance possible.


This is absolutely NOT the attitude to have towards suicide, especially with a gun. Plenty of people have survived with horrible injuries from aiming incorrectly. If you are going to attempt this, you need to do your research and know what you are doing and why.

On a side note, snipers aim for "center mass" meaning the middle of the head. This gives them wiggle room on all sides to make sure they still hit their target. Snipers are also usually using quite powerful, high caliber bullets that can remove significant portions of the head so precision aiming is not needed for a kill.

Solid critique. And yeah, my wording was a bit casual considering the topic I suppose. Maybe i'll stick with 20 gauge 3 inch magnum #2 buckshot after all. Harder to fail there unless you do something stupid like under the chin. I knew 9mm is quite a bit sketchier comparatively speaking, but the grotesqueness was slightly offputting. Although that's a rather arbitrary factor compared to the possible cons.

Thanks, all the best.

If i had to use A 9mm handgun by the ear ir behind ear, or in mouth, or side of head but in the middle of head not high on the side

If u look at the Ronnie mcnut video. To me seems like a grenade . So more chance of destroying brain.

Why look at the rifle he used. Imo it was the high velocity of the bullet

Its all here the rifle he used. Nobody would have survived that

https://watchpeopledie.tv/h/suicide/post/345652/the-suicide-of-ronnie-mcnutt-background

Ronnie used a Remington Model 700 bolt action rifle.

A bullet going 3000 to 3500 feet per second

A kilometer is 3280 feet. So that bullet was Traveling 1 kilometer per second. Picture something traveling 1 kilometer in one second. If it hits a head what will happen

A good demonstration of what a SIGSW can do from high caliber rifles and even shotguns. Very gnarly and crude, but it does give me a modicum of comfort that it was very likely instantaneous from his POV.

 

[Liebestod]

This is NOT where to aim.

The idea with using a gun is to hit the brain stem. This will get you close to "instant death" as the brain stem controls the critical functions like breathing and heart beat. Aiming directly at the forehead puts most of the impact in the front lobe which could kill you, but also leaves a not insignificant chance of surviving with a lobotomy (purple line). The temporal lobe (above the ear) also has non-critical function so again, while possibly deadly, can leave you alive with significant brain damage (red circle). Aiming through the mouth not only helps center the gun on your anatomy, but requires only a slight upward angle to hit the center of the brainstem, giving the maximum chance of the fastest death (yellow line).

If you shoot yourself above the ear the bullet will pass through center of the brain which is where the middle cerebral artery is. The middle cerebral artery has a crucial function as it is a major blood supplier for the brain. Also death is essentially guaranteed at a contact range if the bullet passes through both hemispheres. There are also multiple causes of death with this injury such as major blood loss, cerebral hemorrhaging, as well as hydrostatic shock among others, not just the brain stem. Several studies regarding survivors of attempted suicides with firearms show that the one barrel placement that had the fewest survivors was the temporal placement (above the ear). So statistically aiming above the ear or at the side of the head has the greatest chance of death. Now I know what you might say well the people who survived Intraoral probably didn't aim it right. Which is most likely the case but that doesn't change the fact the you're less likely to aim incorrectly if you go for a temporal placement unless you shoot behind the eyes like an idiot. I've been noticing the brain stem obsession everywhere on this forum and it's frankly ridiculous because the reason why a contact shot is impossible to survive to begin with is because of the hot expansive gases that enter the wound cavity and turn the brain into a liquid. These gases expand into the brain and if the person were to use a hollow point and aim at the side of the head they would likely impact the brain stem anyway due to the nature of the hot expansive gases. Forehead is obviously not where to aim and I agree with you on that but temporal is a highly viable and successful place to aim. Here is a picture that somewhat recreates what the hot expansive gases do to the brain.

 

[Forveleth]

If you shoot yourself above the ear the bullet will pass through center of the brain which is where the middle cerebral artery is. The middle cerebral artery has a crucial function as it is a major blood supplier for the brain. Also death is essentially guaranteed at a contract range if the bullet passes through both hemispheres. There are also multiple causes of death with this injury such as major blood loss, cerebral hemorrhaging, as well as hydrostatic shock among others, not just the brain stem. Several studies regarding survivors of attempted suicides with firearms show that the one barrel placement that had the fewest survivors was the temporal placement (above the ear). So statistically aiming above the ear or at the side of the head has the greatest chance of death. Now I know what you might say well the people who survived Intraoral probably didn't aim it right. Which is most likely that case but that doesn't change the fact the your less likely to aim incorrectly if you go for a temporal placement unless you shoot behind the eyes like an idiot. I've been noticing the brain stem obsession everywhere on this forum and it's frankly ridiculous because the reason why a contact shot is impossible to survive to begin with is because if the hit expansive gases that enter the wound cavity and turn the brain into a liquid. These gases expand into the brain and if the person were to use a hollow point and aim at the side of the head they would likely impact the brain stem anyway due to the nature of the hot expansive gases. Forehead is obviously not where to aim and I agree with you on that but temporal is a highly viable and successful place to aim. Here is a picture that somewhat recreates what the hot expansive gases do to the brain.

Ah, I did not know about the artery. Do you have links to the studies? Thank you for the correction. I will remember this for the future.

 

[Liebestod]

Ah, I did not know about the artery. Do you have links to the studies? Thank you for the correction. I will remember this for the future.

The study examined the vision recovery of survivors of self inflicted gunshot wounds to the head. The study concluded that 83.3% of the survivors used a submental (under the chin) or an intraoral placement (specifically 44.4% submental and 38.9% intraoral) while only 16.7% used a temporal placement. The sample size was small I will admit (n=18) but that's because this injury is nearly impossible to survive. Here is a link to the study. This is just one study that I could find off the top of my head. I will update if I find some others that I can remember. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24676273/