W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Hello. I hope somebody technical can help. I have a max dog regulator (UK). See photo attached there is no o ring on the end. In the PPH the instructions say to clearly check the O-ring. I completely understand what this is for but given that there isn't one when it was supplied, could it be perhaps that not all regulators need one?


the website at max dog says the following '
  • Fitted with CGA-580 soft-nose 'O' ring (excl. UK version) enabling connection to cylinder

and the picture on the website doesn't show it with an o-ring either. Surely it would come with one were it necessary. I darent try and connect it without one. Does anyone from U.K. know about this. Do I need to order one perhaps. I've sent an Email to max dog today.

thank you 53871262 BB66 4546 83D7 0CD7E448A30B
 
Lastsauce

Lastsauce

Experienced
Dec 22, 2019
258
The UK connector doesn't have an O-ring.
You might want to use teflon thread sealing tape on the threads before attachin it to the cylinder. ()
After you have tightened the regulator properly, make sure that the regulator is closed and open the cylinder.
You will hear a hiss as the regulator gets pressurised but it should not continue for long.
You could also check if the seal leaks by using water with dish washing detergent in it to see if any bubbles form.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Oh thank you. God I haven't got any of that tape and can't get out. But from what you are saying an o ring wasn't necessary. Maybe I'll try it without. Presumably if I don't hear anything escaping it will be ok or could it still escape and I wouldn't know?
 
Saddad

Saddad

Member
Dec 17, 2019
97
I have nitro set up from welding supply. No oring either. It makes its seal using compression. Brass to brass.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Is it not possible to get an o ring then from what you are saying. And would I just simply turn over the canister (with regulator attached) into a container of detergent. Why detergent and not just water - sorry if that sounds a bit thick. Do you mean the bubbles would make the detergent bubble? Thank you
 
Saddad

Saddad

Member
Dec 17, 2019
97
Soapy water would bubble if leaks present washing up liquid and water. Brush on the connections. Or tip on.

Oring not needed it's a Conicle fitting

You could turn it up into water and look for bubbles, I have 9l tank and coild be a bit awkward.
 
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W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Ok that's good to know thank you. I only have a 2 litre 2000psi (400 l). I hope that is enough. that's what pph says. I don't want to use too much 'testing' it. Im not sure how it would work just brushing it on but I could try once it's open a bit.
 
M

mrwolf

Member
Oct 5, 2019
16
Totally agree with all posts! The only place that may have an O ring is between the gauge and the valve body. And the fitting where your rubber hose adapter attaches to the body of the valve. If you are really worried about it put some dish soap and water (50/50) in a spray bottle and spray it when it's pressurized. I don't think even a small leak would hinder the end goal. I havn't used a nitro bottle in a while the threads might be reversed. (lefty tighty) Youtube "soapy water leak test"
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Hello I hope you can kind people can help again. It is totally leaking it's like it's not even sealing it. I'm just not sure where I would put tape. I put in the pointy end to the opening in the gas canister and then the washer with threads goes into the opening also. It seems to screw in ok but not all the way -there is a gap of about 5mm I would say. I tightened it by hand. The gas is coming out of that gap. It's not coming out between the body of the regulator and the washer. I could try tightening it with a wrench a lot more but not sure if that will damage the opening of the canister. I'm so annoyed-I just expected it to be okay. Now I don't know what to do. If I buy some tape I just don't even know where to put the tape.would I put it where my finger is In the first picture or the second picture. Does it have to be Teflon tape.
Oh I see - I apply it to the threads.
 

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M

mrwolf

Member
Oct 5, 2019
16
Are the threads bottoming out into the bottle? (Can you still see threads after you hand tighten it?). All of those flared compression fittings need to be more than hand tight to seal. But if you are out of threads then you cant tighten up the fitting into the bottle anymore anyways.
 
S

Shakespear's Brother

Member
Sep 10, 2019
297
I don't have an answer to your question, but does anyone know the technical reason why the UK regulators lack the O-ring? The US, NZ, and CAD regulators all have the O-ring, at least according to the MD website.
 
M

mrwolf

Member
Oct 5, 2019
16
I don't have an answer to your question, but does anyone know the technical reason why the UK regulators lack the O-ring? The US, NZ, and CAD regulators all have the O-ring, at least according to the MD website.
I'm used to larger bottles in the US.. Last time I had a bottle that small was on a paintball gun those type of tanks have an o ring because they dont have a flared fitting on the end. OP with the threaded part slid all the way back to the regulator does the tip bottom out inside the bottle? Can you post a picture of the female part of the bottle?
 
Lastsauce

Lastsauce

Experienced
Dec 22, 2019
258
Oh thank you. God I haven't got any of that tape and can't get out. But from what you are saying an o ring wasn't necessary. Maybe I'll try it without. Presumably if I don't hear anything escaping it will be ok or could it still escape and I wouldn't know?
Don't worry about the teflon tape.
Just don't forget the cylinder valve open when you test it.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Hello mr wolf
Are the threads bottoming out into the bottle? (Can you still see threads after you hand tighten it?). All of those flared compression fittings need to be more than hand tight to seal. But if you are out of threads then you cant tighten up the fitting into the bottle anymore anyways.
no there are no threads showing at all. Does it damage it if you use a wrench to tighten it further? This is the female bit.
Don't worry about the teflon tape.
Just don't forget the cylinder valve open when you test it.
I have no idea what you mean. Of course the valve is open - I had to open it to see if tank was full and to test. It just seems to blast out around the opening of the cylinder.
Hope these photos are ok. I can do better one if needed. Thank you thank you. I've ordered some tape anyway.
 

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M

mrwolf

Member
Oct 5, 2019
16
Hello mr wolf

no there are no threads showing at all. Does it damage it if you use a wrench to tighten it further? This is the female bit.

I have no idea what you mean. Of course the valve is open - I had to open it to see if tank was full and to test. It just seems to blast out around the opening of the cylinder.
Hope these photos are ok. I can do better one if needed. Thank you thank you. I've ordered some tape anyway.
I was worried that the nut was bottoming out before the flared part seated. Looks like you still have 1/8 - 1/4 inch...Say 3/4 of a turn tighter before the nut bottoms out into the tank. Grab an adjustable wrench and tighten it up a bit. Like 20 pounds of tightening force after you have it finger tight should seal it.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Gosh you are technical - 'nut bottoming out before the flared part seated' - I think that means there is a bit more room after the threads finish inside the cylinder opening...like you say 1/8th to 1/4 do you mean a little gap after the threads finish inside? 20 pounds of tightening force? Oh Lordy I wouldn't know what that was. What happens if I tighten too much - will it damage the tank and blow gas everywhere? I'm a bit scared - this is traumatic enough anyway. Sorry for all the questions and I thank you so much for your help. It really is very much appreciated. I'll have to find a wrench in the garage. Getting to the garage is a problem but I will have a good look. I've also got my tape coming with Amazon Prime tomorrow as well.
 
M

mrwolf

Member
Oct 5, 2019
16
Gosh you are technical - 'nut bottoming out before the flared part seated' - I think that means there is a bit more room after the threads finish inside the cylinder opening...like you say 1/8th to 1/4 do you mean a little gap after the threads finish inside? 20 pounds of tightening force? Oh Lordy I wouldn't know what that was. What happens if I tighten too much - will it damage the tank and blow gas everywhere? I'm a bit scared - this is traumatic enough anyway. Sorry for all the questions and I thank you so much for your help. It really is very much appreciated. I'll have to find a wrench in the garage. Getting to the garage is a problem but I will have a good look. I've also got my tape coming with Amazon Prime tomorrow as well.
I think that means there is a bit more room after the threads finish inside the cylinder opening...
Yep
20 pounds of tightening force?
It would be hard to strip the threads but it is possible. You would need well over 100lbs of force to strip them in my opinion. The tank wont explode if you strip the threads. The regulator threads are weaker than the tank so it would basically ruin your regulator. The tape most likely will not help because the gas will leak down the shaft that the threaded nut slides on. That regulator seals by tightening the threaded nut against the flared fitting forcing it to seal on the tapered end inside the bottle.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Oh gawd....lll give it a go if I can find a . I'll do it a bit at a time.
And thank you!
 
U

underthesea

Member
Dec 18, 2019
65
Hello,
I have an actual Nitrogen click style medical regulator (not the O2 regulator that MaxDog refurbishes and sells for twice the price). It does not have an O ring. One has to use a wrench to tighten to tank. When I went to get a tank at the store, I took my regulator and when I asked the guy to check if tank was full, I put the regulator on and he tightened with a wrench. Maybe a turn and a half. Mine was greater than 2000 psi and steady. Pressure will drop if there is consistent leak or big problems.

When I bought the regulator, I had spoken to a rep from the manufacturer about tight seal and he had said these click style regulators aren't made to necessarily have the tightest seal since they are for medical use vs. strict industrial use, which requires a tight seal. He said slight leaks don't affect performance for medical use. I didn't question him too much on it because I didn't want him to get suspicious about my buying Nitrogen regulator, other than for bubbles in my beer and coffee, where obviously slight leaks wouldn't be an issue!

I also have a hose clamp, to keep the hose in place, just in case even though the hose seems pretty secure without a clamp. I checked by spraying soapy water on both tank connection and hose connection, only 2 places where issues could occur. Apart from that, the only leak would be from the bag itself. If all 3 are good then the method should work perfectly.

Btw, you can get empty spray bottles from Amazon.

I also see you got food grade Nitrogen, awesome. I have only industrial grade.
 
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W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Ha ha I'm not sure I know what the difference is between
Hello,
I have an actual Nitrogen click style medical regulator (not the O2 regulator that MaxDog refurbishes and sells for twice the price). It does not have an O ring. One has to use a wrench to tighten to tank. When I went to get a tank at the store, I took my regulator and when I asked the guy to check if tank was full, I put the regulator on and he tightened with a wrench. Maybe a turn and a half. Mine was greater than 2000 psi and steady. Pressure will drop if there is consistent leak or big problems.

When I bought the regulator, I had spoken to a rep from the manufacturer about tight seal and he had said these click style regulators aren't made to necessarily have the tightest seal since they are for medical use vs. strict industrial use, which requires a tight seal. He said slight leaks don't affect performance for medical use. I didn't question him too much on it because I didn't want him to get suspicious about my buying Nitrogen regulator, other than for bubbles in my beer and coffee, where obviously slight leaks wouldn't be an issue!

I also have a hose clamp, to keep the hose in place, just in case even though the hose seems pretty secure without a clamp. I checked by spraying soapy water on both tank connection and hose connection, only 2 places where issues could occur. Apart from that, the only leak would be from the bag itself. If all 3 are good then the method should work perfectly.

Btw, you can get empty spray bottles from Amazon.

I also see you got food grade Nitrogen, awesome. I have only industrial grade.
i wouldn't know what the difference is between food grade and industrial- this was all I could get. Now I'm worried that my 2 litre tank (400 litres) is not enough, especially as it had about 3 blasts of coming out while i tested the regulator.
I can order a 9l one but I read this was enough. I've still got to use a bit more for testing.
 
Lastsauce

Lastsauce

Experienced
Dec 22, 2019
258
especially as it had about 3 blasts of coming out while i tested the regulator.
If it blasts gas when the regulator is screwed on, it is way too loose and need to be properly tightened or you will lose all the nitrogen.
It should just make short hiss and the pressure gauge should show over 2000 psi (or what it reads on the cylinder) if the tank is full.
 
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U

underthesea

Member
Dec 18, 2019
65
Ha ha I'm not sure I know what the difference is between

i wouldn't know what the difference is between food grade and industrial- this was all I could get. Now I'm worried that my 2 litre tank (400 litres) is not enough, especially as it had about 3 blasts of coming out while i tested the regulator.
I can order a 9l one but I read this was enough. I've still got to use a bit more for testing.
Nitrogen comes in various grades, depending on its purity. You can Google it. It doesn't matter for our purposes, industrial grade is just fine. Food grade is higher purity.

Your regulator should show you if you have enough gas or not.

My suggestion is to read the Exit Bag and Inert gas Mega thread, under Resources, where TiredHorse outlines everything in detail. Also read PPH carefully, it outlines every single step. You can go to Exit International website and order an electronic version, which will give you all updates. If you are going to do this method you need to understand it first, since it has more equipment involved vs just drinking something. After you have read everything, you will understand it and then you will be ready to execute it correctly, imho.
Good luck.
 
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W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Yeah - it is totally blasting hence my post. I'm going to have to try a wrench. I did it hand tight as well. I've got tape coming but hopefully the wrench will do the trick. Otherwise I don't know what to do.
 
W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Hello there, I wonder if you helpful people who posted will see this. Just a bit of advice again please. I tried a wrench and tightened it about a quarter turn-I couldn't really get it much tighter than that but there was a bit more to give I would say. I didn't want do that because I was going to take it off again. I was worried about damaging the threads. Anyway I turned the gas on and there was no leak from the place where there was last time (where it fits into the opening) but as Mr Wolf pointed out, there is a leak coming out of the shaft now. It's an obvious leak, because I could hear it and feel it (so it wasn't one that was otherwise hard to detect and that I needed a detergent to test for). It's not a huge leak but obviously big enough that I can feel it. . Now I am in a quandry. I've got this Teflon tape stuff, shall I just wrap it round the shaft a few times - might that help. I could try tightening it a bit more, - maybe that will create the seal all the way. I was a bit scared for some reason. I don't know why - I had visions of it puncturing the canister inside on the bit where the nitrogen comes out! Could I wrap this Teflon tape around the whole lot after it's been screwed in? It's just like clingfilm so not quite sure what it is really meant to do - I do I did watch the YouTube video and I can see that it wraps around threads. My final question is - I think obviously I could put the regulator back on again and tighten it up more. If that is the case, I wouldn't want to then take it off again and have to re-test. Is it okay to leave the regulator attached (obviously with the canister turned off) until such time as it would be required. The only reason I ask this is because the PPH says that if you changed your mind you should then dismantle it. But I'm not sure how important that really is.
thank you
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
Hello there, I wonder if you helpful people who posted will see this. Just a bit of advice again please. I tried a wrench and tightened it about a quarter turn-I couldn't really get it much tighter than that but there was a bit more to give I would say. I didn't want do that because I was going to take it off again. I was worried about damaging the threads. Anyway I turned the gas on and there was no leak from the place where there was last time (where it fits into the opening) but as Mr Wolf pointed out, there is a leak coming out of the shaft now. It's an obvious leak, because I could hear it and feel it (so it wasn't one that was otherwise hard to detect and that I needed a detergent to test for). It's not a huge leak but obviously big enough that I can feel it. . Now I am in a quandry. I've got this Teflon tape stuff, shall I just wrap it round the shaft a few times - might that help. I could try tightening it a bit more, - maybe that will create the seal all the way. I was a bit scared for some reason. I don't know why - I had visions of it puncturing the canister inside on the bit where the nitrogen comes out! Could I wrap this Teflon tape around the whole lot after it's been screwed in? It's just like clingfilm so not quite sure what it is really meant to do - I do I did watch the YouTube video and I can see that it wraps around threads. My final question is - I think obviously I could put the regulator back on again and tighten it up more. If that is the case, I wouldn't want to then take it off again and have to re-test. Is it okay to leave the regulator attached (obviously with the canister turned off) until such time as it would be required. The only reason I ask this is because the PPH says that if you changed your mind you should then dismantle it. But I'm not sure how important that really is.
thank you
One overall question comes to mind: would you describe yourself as a handy kind of person? Good with tools? Experienced working on small projects with tools?

Absolutely no offense meant, sincerely, but for a person who is a bit handy attaching the regulator is a breeze, takes a minute.

No, don't wrap the Teflon tape over or around anything, that's not what it's for.

Start again--detach the regulator completely from the tank.

Completely clean/remove the old Teflon tape from the threaded fitting. Your fingers, a toothpick, a toothbrush, anything will do the trick.

Take a deep breath.:wink:

The Teflon tape is really more of an extra safeguard so that the external threads and the internal threads (also called the male and female threads) in a joint make a good, tight connection. Another option is something called pipe dope, it's sort of a gluey liquid. The idea is that either of them fills in any very tiny irregularities in the thread surfaces, ensuring a tight connection.

There are numerous videos on YouTube about how to apply Teflon tape correctly, perhaps you should watch one.

Do you know what it means when a person "strips the threads" of a threaded connection? (If not, please Google.) It's also referred to as cross-threading. It just means that right at the beginning, when you first bring the two parts together, you force things, you don't gently make sure that indeed the external threads are smoothly fitting into the internal threads. In almost every threaded connection, right at the start, when the two parts come together and begin to thread, you can simply feel that you've got it right. Should be smooth, be threading easily with just your fingers. So be careful of this, don't force anything, start slow and easy!

Take another deep breath.:wink:

Once again wrap a short length of tape around the external threads of the regulator fitting, 4"-6" should be plenty. It's easy, you watched the video, you've got a whole roll of the stuff, if you mess up just start again.

Next, line up the regulator fitting and the tank fitting and slowing, just with your fingers, begin turning the nut, again making sure that you're not cross-threading, that the two parts are engaging smoothly and correctly, the external threads spiraling nicely within the internal threads.

Eventually you're going to reach a point when you can't turn the nut anymore with your fingers.

Get a wrench (don't know where you are, a spanner in the UK) and with it start tightening the nut more. It is very difficult to tell a person online exactly how much! In general, threaded connections go from loose, to snug, to tight, to over-tight! (The person used all his might to keep turning and trying to force the nut a tiny bit more. Never necessary, don't do that!) You want nice and tight, that's it. When you can't turn it fairly easily with the wrench, it's tight enough!

You should have zero leakage with this connection. Very minute leakages in a gas joint can be detected by brushing a bit of slightly soapy water onto the connection; if you see bubbles appearing, that's the gas leaking out. (You can also see this process in a YouTube video). If you can actually hear and feel the leak, you've done something wrong--you don't have a good connection--take it apart, clean the old tape off, try again.

This should work. Another idea: by any chance do you have a friend who's kind of handy, worked a lot with tools? Tell him that you're going to try and brew some beer--would he help you attach the regulator to the tank.

Best of luck.
 
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W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
Thank you mr fighting Sioux. You spent a good bit of time here. I'm not completely rubbish with tools but obviously I came across as (understandably) anxious. just to be clear, I haven't used any tape yet - I just tried it without first. I lined everything up nicely, screwed it in slowly and got it to hand tight. With that, there was no seal at all - it rushed out. So....I made this original post. Then, I tried a wrench to get it a bit tighter and there was no leak from the connection where it enters the canister so that was good but it did come out from the shaft which the nut is on. It didn't rush out but I could hear it and feel it so didn't need to even do the detergent test (I had my spray detergent ready). So....I did nothing wrong except perhaps to not use Teflon tape on the threads first time around. This, however would not prevent the leak from the shaft. Other than try and tighten it a little more without over forcing, I'm not sure what else I can do. it definitely was not cross threaded and I expected it to be such a simple step - I am very annoyed that this is not the case. I understand exactly what is supposed to happen so am frustrated and anxious. I'm going to tighten it just a little more tomorrow And hope it doesn't leak down the shaft.I can't cope with it tonight
 
fightingsioux

fightingsioux

Specialist
Oct 22, 2019
357
Thank you mr fighting Sioux. You spent a good bit of time here. I'm not completely rubbish with tools but obviously I came across as (understandably) anxious. just to be clear, I haven't used any tape yet - I just tried it without first. I lined everything up nicely, screwed it in slowly and got it to hand tight. With that, there was no seal at all - it rushed out. So....I made this original post. Then, I tried a wrench to get it a bit tighter and there was no leak from the connection where it enters the canister so that was good but it did come out from the shaft which the nut is on. It didn't rush out but I could hear it and feel it so didn't need to even do the detergent test (I had my spray detergent ready). So....I did nothing wrong except perhaps to not use Teflon tape on the threads first time around. This, however would not prevent the leak from the shaft. Other than try and tighten it a little more without over forcing, I'm not sure what else I can do. it definitely was not cross threaded and I expected it to be such a simple step - I am very annoyed that this is not the case. I understand exactly what is supposed to happen so am frustrated and anxious. I'm going to tighten it just a little more tomorrow And hope it doesn't leak down the shaft.I can't cope with it tonight
By the shaft, you mean the shaft in the space behind the nut--the space between the nut and the regulator?

If so, yes, a poor connection could be felt and heard as a gas leak in that space.

I understand your anxiety, I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but feeling frustrated, anxious and annoyed is never a good state of mind to be in when working with anything mechanical.

Apply the tape correctly, carefully thread the joint together, wrench it tight. If you're still hearing and feeling a gas leak, there are only two possibilities: one, absolutely no offense meant, but you or anyone doing the process is doing something wrong. Two, you've got a bad connector assembly on the regulator.
 
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W

Wiltshire

Member
Nov 14, 2019
45
By the shaft, you mean the shaft in the space behind the nut--the space between the nut and the regulator?

If so, yes, a poor connection could be felt and heard as a gas leak in that space.

I understand your anxiety, I'm not trying to give you a hard time here, but feeling frustrated, anxious and annoyed is never a good state of mind to be in when working with anything mechanical.

Apply the tape correctly, carefully thread the joint together, wrench it tight. If you're still hearing and feeling a gas leak, there are only two possibilities: one, absolutely no offense meant, but you or anyone doing the process is doing something wrong. Two, you've got a bad connector assembly on the regulator.
Hi, yes I meant the shaft in the space behind the nut in the space between the nut and the regulator. I'm honestly not doing anything wrong - I'm simply putting it in and screwing it carefully then turning canister on. Tape tomorrow - I'll try it and then do it a bit tighter if need be. I honestly thought a stiff turn of the wrench would be enough. Thank you.
 

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