Neither recovery nor ctb - thinking through my process...

[noaccount]

So right now I am not trying to end my life, but I don't think I'm trying to 'recover' because I don't think my feelings of need-it-to-stop are a 'sickness'. So I'm hashing out how I'm navigating the balance of this.

My first thing is, I try to get real clear on what ethics / value judgements I'm thinking of myself as 'better' or 'worse' based on.
In one simple way, I can appreciate feeling 'better' ie happier sometimes, but I keep in mind, when I feel 'worse' ie in more pain:
I HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT PROBLEMS, MY FEELINGS THEMSELVES ARE NOT THE PROBLEMS.

Big key point is that officials like to say people kill themselves 'while the balance of their minds are disturbed,' and more well-off people like to say that people are in despair because of wrong-thinking, and if they were thinking more accurately they would see that they were somehow delusional about the things that were hurting them. And this is bullshit. Whether it's poverty, chronic illness, religious abuse, whatever - I want everyone to be believed about what's destroying them, and not be told that their thinking is more correct when it minimizes or brushes-over sources of pain.

This is the next thing, what ways of thinking and acting are morally better or worse? I think we have an intuitive sense that it's not ethically worse to be in more pain, but it is ethically worse to cause other people more pain. This feels very healthy, natural, but people with power have all kinds of ways to romanticize bullying, or romanticize letting it happen to you - the whole economy - "You need to be more productive at the cost of your health to be a good citizen! Me getting rich off you just makes me an entrepeneur/innovator!" So it's a big step to consciously say that there's no moral value to feeling more or less depressed.

I also ask myself, 'What might my suicidality liberate me to do differently?'
What risks might I take, that could kill me but could also be really good for me if I survive? That could be really good for other people whether or not I survive?

I'm thinking about my bucket list also - things I'd absolutely want to do before I died, that I'd feel a lot of resentment if I didn't get done.
The things that would let me feel at peace walking into mortal danger, though, are the same as what I'd want to feel I was living in a worthwhile way, like I was doing what some people call 'recovering.'
Even if I follow all the rules and stay as safe as I can I still don't have this body forever. Making decisions about when and how to let it go, is another part of what's life-affirming - I just don't want people to end their lives drowning in internalized oppression thinking things were their fault or that they're crazy for naming what's happening.

 

[noaccount]

I want more time sharing music with people I like.
I want more foraging wild mushrooms. I want more learning at least basic carpentry and mechanics.
I want more time in the ocean, and in the high desert.
I want more intentional communication about relationships that don't follow social norms.
I want all of those things.
But I think I need to do something else.

 

[wordsonscreen]

I want more time sharing music with people I like.
I want more foraging wild mushrooms. I want more learning at least basic carpentry and mechanics.
I want more time in the ocean, and in the high desert.
I want more intentional communication about relationships that don't follow social norms.
I want all of those things.
But I think I need to do something else.

Can I come and forage with you? :') You are so cool.

I HAVE FEELINGS ABOUT PROBLEMS, MY FEELINGS THEMSELVES ARE NOT THE PROBLEMS.

THANK YOU. For recognizing this. ffs. I cant say this enough.

Big key point is that officials like to say people kill themselves 'while the balance of their minds are disturbed,' and more well-off people like to say that people are in despair because of wrong-thinking, and if they were thinking more accurately they would see that they were somehow delusional about the things that were hurting them. And this is bullshit. Whether it's poverty, chronic illness, religious abuse, whatever - I want everyone to be believed about what's destroying them, and not be told that their thinking is more correct when it minimizes or brushes-over sources of pain.

This is the next thing, what ways of thinking and acting are morally better or worse? I think we have an intuitive sense that it's not ethically worse to be in more pain, but it is ethically worse to cause other people more pain. This feels very healthy, natural, but people with power have all kinds of ways to romanticize bullying, or romanticize letting it happen to you - the whole economy - "You need to be more productive at the cost of your health to be a good citizen! Me getting rich off you just makes me an entrepeneur/innovator!" So it's a big step to consciously say that there's no moral value to feeling more or less depressed.

I also ask myself, 'What might my suicidality liberate me to do differently?'

I love your insights. You speak my heart! My suicidality has been my secret weapon. I went from having almost nothing but abuse to being in a position to affect so much change- still suffering BUT. Keeping suicide in my pocket helped me take massive risks that worked for me and for my communities.

I love love love how much you have deconstructed these structures in your own self and how much you see through the bs. I cant have any less than that around me! It would be so cool to possibly hang with you if you are able to visit boston :)

What risks might I take, that could kill me but could also be really good for me if I survive? That could be really good for other people whether or not I survive?

SOOOO many studies now on how suicidality and PTSD are NORMAL responses to possibly abnormal situations.

PTSD is less an illness and more like a signal to us to pay attention to something that is stuck/not fully integrated etc. These things are supposed to bring EVERYONEs attention to the issue not just the one experiencing trauma. Maybe trauma is meant to be healed communally- thus the excruciating symptoms that one cannot contain.

I'm thinking about my bucket list also - things I'd absolutely want to do before I died, that I'd feel a lot of resentment if I didn't get done.
The things that would let me feel at peace walking into mortal danger, though, are the same as what I'd want to feel I was living in a worthwhile way, like I was doing what some people call 'recovering.'

This is good to do whether you "recover" or ctb

Even if I follow all the rules and stay as safe as I can I still don't have this body forever. Making decisions about when and how to let it go, is another part of what's life-affirming - I just don't want people to end their lives drowning in internalized oppression thinking things were their fault or that they're crazy for naming what's happening.

I just don't want people to end their lives drowning in internalized oppression thinking things were their fault or that they're crazy for naming what's happening.
​

Can we get this on a fucking billboard please.

 

[timf]

Your bucket list seems to have a lot of "I want". I suppose this is the definition of a bucket list, but sometimes a life with an excessive consumptive orientation creates a hunger that cannot ever be satisfied.

You may wish to experiment with setting a small amount of your resources (like time) to help someone else with something (sort of an outflow to balance against the inflow). Sometimes unexpected satisfaction from helping others can open a new perspective in assessing your situation.

You observations about people wanting to exploit your labor are much warranted. I observed in the Army (years ago) what I called the slavery survival mentality. When people are shouting at you to work harder or faster, you have to limit your own efforts or others will use you up. If people think you are dumb, lazy, or shiftless because you cannot be goaded into working yourself to death for them, then so be it. Your well being should not be contingent on the opinion of others.

 

[noaccount]

Lol, uh, the things I list wanting are not "consumptive" in the sense that you're projecting here, timf. They are actually largely organized around relationships and concerted efforts towards mutual aid.