Jamba

Jamba

Member
Jan 1, 2019
29
Hi :) for those of you who have also chosen N as a method, will you be using Dilantin (Phenytoin) as well to potentiate the effect? I have mixed feelings about though A seemed to think its a good call. Does anyone know why it would be a better option than Alcohol?
 
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Redt2go

Redt2go

flower child
Jan 5, 2019
1,643
What's Dilantin
 
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D

Deleted member 4993

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There are powder capsules available but hard to get I found.

Tablets
Orally whole or crushed up but they don't crush easily the outer shell fragments remain.
 
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A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Bu the way Dilantin kills ... cardiac arrythmia, followed by death .... ?

I'm not sure how reliable that actually is. I haven't seen any sources.
 
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Deleted member 4993

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Phenytoin/pentobarbital - Wikipedia
Phenytoin/pentobarbital is an animal drug product used for euthanasia of non-food animals, which contains a mixture of phenytoin ... US federal law restricts the drug to usage by, or on the order of, a licensed ...
 
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Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
@Passingby ,

Link: 'The phenytoin component produces reduced central nervous system funciton and cardiovascular collapse, causing hypotension.'

'cardiovascular collapse' is the thing we'd be looking for. Of course, killing an animal is not the same as attempting to kill yourself ..
No animal survives the acts of a vet committed to kill it ... and the animals have not been exposed to chemicals we humans often have been exposed to ...

Well, I'd just like to know more about the reliability of phenytoin. Up to a point it may be in the same category as amitriptyline ...
Causing disruption of the heart is not that difficult. As for reliability of the method ? I think I read in a book (Pieter Admiraal's ?) that a plastic bag is often recommended because drug overdose on their own often fail.
Increased dysfunction of the heart, leading to cardiac arrest (not sure of that is painful ...) is likely the way it should work.
 
A

Arak

Enlightened
Sep 21, 2018
1,176
Oh https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/1812378

'Intravenous phenytoin has been known to produce cardiovascular collapse when administered too quickly; however, this is thought to be related to toxicity from its diluent propylene glycol.' 'Although phenytoin is a Vaughn-Williams Class 1B antiarrhythmic, it displays quick on-off kinetics at the sodium channel, thus making it less arrhythmogenic when compared with agents with slow on-off kinetics such as the class IC agents'

http://www.emjournal.net/htdocs/pages/art/45-phtox.html
'The acute cardiovascular toxicity seen with intravenous phenytoin infusion has frequently been ascribed to its diluent. The vehicle for the most widely used parenteral formulation of phenytoin is 40% propylene glycol and 10% ethanol, adjusted to a pH of 12 with sodium hydroxide. The glycol component has been shown to cause coma, seizures, circulatory collapse, ventricular arrhythmias, cardiac nodal depression, and hypotension in humans and animals. Propylene glycol is a strong myocardial depressant and vasodilator and increases vagal tone'

'
Central Nervous System Toxicity

As toxic phenytoin levels are reached, both inhibitory cortical and excitatory cerebellar-vestibular effects begin to occur. The usual initial sign of toxicity is nystagmus, which is seen first on forced lateral gaze and then becomes spontaneous. Vertical, bidirectional, or alternating nystagmus may occur with severe intoxication.

Decreased level of consciousness is routine, with initial sedation, lethargy, ataxic gait, and dysarthria progressing to confusion, coma, and even apnea in large overdose. Chronically impaired cognitive function or acute encephalopathy may occur without other common signs of ataxia and nystagmus. This is usually seen at toxic levels but again may occur in the therapeutic range. Nystagmus will commonly disappear at levels sufficient to cause coma (above 35 to 55 mg/mL), and complete ophthalmoplegia and loss of corneal reflexes may occur. Therefore, absence of nystagmus does not exclude severe phenytoin toxicity. Nystagmus then returns as serum drug levels decrease and coma lightens.

Phenytoin-induced seizures are usually brief, and are usually generalized. They are quite rare and almost always preceded by other signs of toxicity, especially in acute overdose.

Cerebellar stimulation and alteration in dopaminergic and seroto-nergic activity may be responsible for acute dystonias and movement disorders seen in overdose, including opisthotonos and choreoathetosis. Either depressed or hyperactive deep tendon reflexes, clonus, and extensor toe responses may also be elicited. Some signs of neurologic toxicity may outlast the presence of drug by months, especially mild peripheral neuropathy or acute reversible cerebellar degeneration with ataxia.

Psychosis, toxic delirium, visual and auditory hallucinations, euphoria, irritability, agitation, and combativeness have all been reported with toxicity.

Cardiovascular Toxicity

Significant cardiac toxicity after oral phenytoin overdose in an otherwise healthy patient has never been reported and, if observed, should mandate a rapid assessment for other causes (e.g., hypoxia, other drugs). Cardiovascular complications have been almost entirely limited to cases of intravenous administration. These include hypotension with decreased peripheral vascular resistance, bradycardia, conduction delays progressing to complete AV nodal block, ventricular tachycardia, primary ventricular fibrillation, and asystole. Electrocardiographic changes include increased PR interval, widened QRS interval, and altered S-T and T-wave segments. Bradycardia, hypotension, and syncope in healthy volunteers have been reported even after small intravenous doses. Slowly administered (<25 mg/min) intravenous phenytoin has also been reported to cause precipitous, refractory hypotension and cardiac arrest in critically ill patients receiving dopamine infusions to support blood pressure. Most of these complications can be attributed to rapid intravenous administration of the propylene glycol diluent fraction and are avoidable with cautious administration (Table 3'

When googling for 'phenytoin cardiovascular collapse' You have to be very, very careful about trusting doctors ...
 

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