My understanding on what depression really is

[User200]

I'm feeling philosophical today and would like to share my views on depression

After a long ongoing battle , I think I figured out what it really is

It's not a chemical imbalance, or all just in the mind or whatever like that, it's an entity, with the end goal of making you take your own life

What I mean is depression attacks everyone in different ways , and like most things in life , people can be categorized into segments

Here are some examples,

Someone may be depressed cause he cant loose weight and doesn't like his self image. His chemicals in his brain are perfect, but he just cant stand the fact that he feels overweight . In this case SSRI are a recipe for disaster, they may cause dependency, an actual imbalance, more weight gain cause of side effects and the list goes on . In this case the only pill that might be helpful is something that makes you loose appetite , like a stimulant . Loosing appetite will give that boost of motivation to get to his end goal

Financial issues - Someone who keeps working and working yet struggles to pay rent every month may get depressed because of that. Again chemicals are perfect so any pill again may do more harm than good. Talking about it wont solve anything either

There some people that have too much on their mind, the negative taughts running 24/7 just won't stop. I don't know the solution to this but im sure this might actually be something in the brain, like some excess chemical or something. Again if taking a pill for this u gotta make sure its the right one that tackles the issue perfectly

Then there's the opposite of the above, some just have this emptiness inside. Lack of taughts, creativity, imagination .

Some people are simply depressed cause they can't get a good night's sleep

Finally some are depressed for "no reason at all " . They have everything they could have asked for in life. Well in this case it might be actually be a deficiency in something. Maybe serotonins, dopamine, endorphins, even vitamin d

My point is I think the treatments for depression system is messed up . They will recommend anti depressants and talking to a therapist ,doing exercise ... which might work in some specific cases but not all

Ok that's it really just wanted to share maybe it could help someone out there : )

 

[timf]

The old saying, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail" seem to fit how some approach treatment. I knew a doctor once whom I had asked if he has ever considered psychiatric medicine. He said he saw people as having problems resulting from sin, bad choices, and something else. He felt it would be too constrained to be limited to passing out prescriptions for "something else".

 

[User200]

The old saying, "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem will look like a nail" seem to fit how some approach treatment. I knew a doctor once whom I had asked if he has ever considered psychiatric medicine. He said he saw people as having problems resulting from sin, bad choices, and something else. He felt it would be too constrained to be limited to passing out prescriptions for "something else".

The true in a way but the thing is when it comes to depression, there are many tools available , they just keep giving the wrong thing.

Like someone struggling with financial issues to the point he wants to die and somehow he meets a psychiatrist

Here are some Q and A s that might take place in this scenario

How have you be feeling today ?

Well I feel very depressed ...

Do you have suicidal taughts ?

To be honest , for now I feel like I wouldn't commit suicide but if I wouldn't mind dying at all

That's where the psychiatrist makes the mistake . He'll prescribe ssri

All the man needs is financial support . Someway or another . Don't know how but that's the cure to his depression

Heck for people that feel without a purpose or something missing spiritually, even praying , crystals or whatever may cure their depression

These are just examples . There are a million cases out there and a large percentage of the patients get the wrong solution to their problems

As a Ginnie pig of pharmaceuticals I can say that there are meds and there are meds , if the med tackles the root cause of depression it will help. Even magic shrooms and weed might help in some cases lol

 

[TriggerHappy]

On suicide & depression:
"Suicide is, normally, death caused by the illness of depression. It is the final symptom.
A final collapse under unbearable weight."

 

[TotallyIsolated]

The whole 'chemical imbalance' thing is just a misinterpretation of the real science.

Its not well understood because biology is crazy complex, and we've barely even started to study our brains and how they work - but the neurotransmitter model of depression is proven to have merit.

My own interpretation is that a depressed brain is one that has learned to inhibit itself and reduce activity. I see it as a natural adaptation to harshly negative or traumatic environments in an effort to stay safe. When were confident and happy we take an open posture and lean forward out into the world, but when under attack we retreat and take a closed, passive posture. Its how all animals learn to socialize and to live together. We learn what to do, and what NOT to do. Imagine being exposed to that negative stimulus repeatedly, over and over for years.

The idea is that neurons learn to reduce their activity to the point where they stop firing altogether. Antidepressant drugs work by giving those neurons a chance to fire. SSRIs, the more modern class of drug, slow down rate at which the synapse recycles neurotransmitters, which gives more time for enough neurotransmitter to build up to actually cause the next neuron to fire.

 

[Luchs]

I'm feeling philosophical today and would like to share my views on depression

After a long ongoing battle , I think I figured out what it really is

It's not a chemical imbalance, or all just in the mind or whatever like that, it's an entity, with the end goal of making you take your own life

What I mean is depression attacks everyone in different ways , and like most things in life , people can be categorized into segments

Here are some examples,

Someone may be depressed cause he cant loose weight and doesn't like his self image. His chemicals in his brain are perfect, but he just cant stand the fact that he feels overweight . In this case SSRI are a recipe for disaster, they may cause dependency, an actual imbalance, more weight gain cause of side effects and the list goes on . In this case the only pill that might be helpful is something that makes you loose appetite , like a stimulant . Loosing appetite will give that boost of motivation to get to his end goal

Financial issues - Someone who keeps working and working yet struggles to pay rent every month may get depressed because of that. Again chemicals are perfect so any pill again may do more harm than good. Talking about it wont solve anything either

There some people that have too much on their mind, the negative taughts running 24/7 just won't stop. I don't know the solution to this but im sure this might actually be something in the brain, like some excess chemical or something. Again if taking a pill for this u gotta make sure its the right one that tackles the issue perfectly

Then there's the opposite of the above, some just have this emptiness inside. Lack of taughts, creativity, imagination .

Some people are simply depressed cause they can't get a good night's sleep

Finally some are depressed for "no reason at all " . They have everything they could have asked for in life. Well in this case it might be actually be a deficiency in something. Maybe serotonins, dopamine, endorphins, even vitamin d

My point is I think the treatments for depression system is messed up . They will recommend anti depressants and talking to a therapist ,doing exercise ... which might work in some specific cases but not all

Ok that's it really just wanted to share maybe it could help someone out there : )

Imo the chemical imbalances are a result of a thought pattern within the brain. I see things like depression and the such like mind viruses that are transmitted through media and from person to person.

 

[User200]

You got a very good point, however I think that a negative and traumatic environment is one of the tools that can be used by depression to attack you. Depression is this entity that everyone has inside that will try to bring you down anytime it could. Just like a person it adapts. So it's important that you fight it as one. Let's take financial issues for example. If you give a million dollars to a person who works 2 jobs and still struggles to pay rent you'll cure his depression and beyond. It will though try another way to get to him. Maybe tempt him into gambling, do cocaine or find any other approach you can think of. So its important that when you fight it , first you tackle the root cause, which may aswell be the neuron issue you mentioned and be proactive on any other method depression many use to get u down again . Again this is my view. I may be terribly wrong. Now when I say entity I don't know , it may be an actual entity, it sure feels like it.

 

[noaccount]

You're totally right. Just saying that an experience is a 'mental illness' tells us nothing about what's causing it, the causes are diverse and doctors don't often listen to us when we don't fit in their boxes.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

 

[summers]

I knew a doctor once whom I had asked if he has ever considered psychiatric medicine. He said he saw people as having problems resulting from sin, bad choices, and something else.

Bad choices, probably. If a doctor mentioned sin to me, sorry, I'm looking for a second opinion.

 

[UseItOrLoseIt]

View attachment 64069

Maybe life is addictive and depression is a reflective path you're forced to take to cut the addiction, suicide being the final result. You are forced because you have no life to satisfy the addiction. No dealer. No personal stash.
Depression is life withdrawal.

 

[User200]

Maybe life is addictive and depression is a reflective path you're forced to take to cut the addiction, suicide being the final result. You are forced because you have no life to satisfy the addiction. No dealer. No personal stash.
Depression is life withdrawal.

I totally understand that u see it that way but trust me it can be beaten . Till not long ago I bought an inflatable boat with the intent of filling it up with loads of water bottles and some food to disappear from the small island I live in.

Like to beat it , first u gotta make a list of what's bothering you in life and rank them in order of what's annoying you the most

It may as well be a balanced contribution of everything .

Start working on them 1 by 1 . If it's the second, you got to tackle the issues slowly and equally .

There's a solution to everything, and sometimes the right med will help you alot

You have to figure out your own cure to your personal depression .

That's it once you overcome it life will be addicting again and depression weakens in you. Again it will still lurk around observing you and trying to find another way to get to you, bit you just have to be aware of that and strike it back from time to time not to let it get to you again

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

There's a solution to everything, and sometimes the right med will help you alot

 

[UseItOrLoseIt]

That's it once you overcome it life will be addicting again and depression weakens in you.

You missed my point entirely. Life is addictive in and of itself, depression or no depression. Having depression makes you more aware of that, since you are going through a withdrawal process, adapting to a life with no life. Can't even call it a life anymore. It's like a dried up river - you clearly see the riverbed and the direction it's supposed to flow, but there is no water.

Of course, like you said, there is depression and then there is depression. If money or weight or some other singular reason is the cause of your depression then the river is not dried up - it's flow is just blocked by an obstacle. However, you can't just make water out of nothing. That just might be the one problem that has no soultion.

My depression always made perfect sense to me. I have been given life but never a chance to live it. Since I was a little kid, even when I was at my best I encountered only dismissal. I was put in this position, an entity filled with life-force that craves to be shared, but nobody ever wanted anything from me and I was never given anything. How am I supposed to solve that problem? And wouldn't every solution just be denial at this point?

Meds never helped me either. Like, at all.

Anyways, I'm glad you were able to overcome it. Sorry for being so negative. Here! A nice, "positive" video on depression to make up for that:

 

[User200]

You missed my point entirely. Life is addictive in and of itself, depression or no depression. Having depression makes you more aware of that, since you are going through a withdrawal process, adapting to a life with no life. Can't even call it a life anymore. It's like a dried up river - you clearly see the riverbed and the direction it's supposed to flow, but there is no water.

Of course, like you said, there is depression and then there is depression. If money or weight or some other singular reason is the cause of your depression then the river is not dried up - it's flow is just blocked by an obstacle. However, you can't just make water out of nothing. That just might be the one problem that has no soultion.

My depression always made perfect sense to me. I have been given life but never a chance to live it. Since I was a little kid, even when I was at my best I encountered only dismissal. I was put in this position, an entity filled with life-force that craves to be shared, but nobody ever wanted anything from me and I was never given anything. How am I supposed to solve that problem? And wouldn't every solution just be denial at this point?

Meds never helped me either. Like, at all.

Anyways, I'm glad you were able to overcome it. Sorry for being so negative. Here! A nice, "positive" video on depression to make up for that:

Ok I get it . Well the thing is that same for me really. You could say I've been depressed all my life. Not gonna go into the depression is an entity thing again but basically let's start by saying I have some dysprexia . At the beginning some parts of my brain developed slowly and I was too sensitive to what people said to me. That made me even more of a target for " bullying" and got even more sensitive etc. Then I learned to take life more lightly , and just flow with whatever life takes me without worrying about anything . I also started focusing on making others around me happy which would make me happy even if I was being laughed at the things I say , I jus used the creativity to my advantage and took humor as a coping mechanism, but depression started lurking again in me by giving me some dark intrusive taughts . I was fighting like hell with positive attitude till one day I was forced to take these antipsycotics , I could say I lost my mind and soul, and could barely move my body. That stayed for a really long time and I could say during this period of constant lows with 0 % high made life non addicting at all. Like I would constantly think about how I could die .

But yeah by time I changed the meds (with psychiatrist instructions) I went from barely being able to walk to putting on 20kg weight to having restless leg syndrome to having 0 libido, no creativity emotions taughts anything. And now all of a sudden as soon as I got my personal insight things are starting to slowly flow back , the meds I'm taking now don't seem to effect that much and Ritalin is helping me loose the extra weight I put on and get my mind back to working, the sertraline might be helping too I dunno and aripiprazole isn't giving me the restless leg thing anymore.

Thing is if you asked me how I was gonna solve my problems a month ago. I would say the same as you. How does one get his mind body and sould back. It can't be bought or can't be given by someone or talking about won't help , exercise didn't help eihter ...

So please try to hang in there . I know how hard it must be

Like for me all the things being taken away from me made me heavily depressed but now that I'm slowly getting them back im starting to appreciate what I have so much more and even though if I could go back in time I woulve never ever taken any med, I don't regret the experience. Like now I have an interesting background of my life and can even make jokes about all the meds I've taken and stuff ( I work helping pharmacists preparing meds ironically , was given this job by a friend of my mom's to help out not planned at all)

You missed my point entirely. Life is addictive in and of itself, depression or no depression. Having depression makes you more aware of that, since you are going through a withdrawal process, adapting to a life with no life. Can't even call it a life anymore. It's like a dried up river - you clearly see the riverbed and the direction it's supposed to flow, but there is no water.

Of course, like you said, there is depression and then there is depression. If money or weight or some other singular reason is the cause of your depression then the river is not dried up - it's flow is just blocked by an obstacle. However, you can't just make water out of nothing. That just might be the one problem that has no soultion.

My depression always made perfect sense to me. I have been given life but never a chance to live it. Since I was a little kid, even when I was at my best I encountered only dismissal. I was put in this position, an entity filled with life-force that craves to be shared, but nobody ever wanted anything from me and I was never given anything. How am I supposed to solve that problem? And wouldn't every solution just be denial at this point?

Meds never helped me either. Like, at all.

Anyways, I'm glad you were able to overcome it. Sorry for being so negative. Here! A nice, "positive" video on depression to make up for that:

This may be a very bad idea , but how about diving deeper in depression. Like somehow put some positive traits of yours on the side and try to live without them . If you go down this road you have to be ready for a very dark ride . Like if you like your fitness, try to make it worse , if you feel like your brain is sharp, get something to disable it completely . Then start working on getting these back. It will take God knows how long , but when you do get there you'll start feeling so much better and appreciate the things that were taken away from you for a part of your life. The saying is so true you don't know what you got till it's gone

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm not a real doctor but I once saw a YouTube video that said that the episode with this scene from South Park is supposed to describe true depression:


Which is weird because when I first saw this episode I thought it was just what getting older must be like, right? Though after seeing the episode again multiple times I have to agree that seeing everything as shit isn't normal, it's just overly cynical. I've tried to mellow out my opinions on things and not be too harsh but it seems that if even one person has something bad to say about something I like, it sends me into a downward spiral. That's probably how my self loathing got started too.

I don't know if any of that is actually what depression is supposed to be. For me it just feels like no matter how happy I get which admittedly can happen easily due to my feeble mind, at the end of the day if I'm given any time to reflect or pause, my grim reality comes back to taunt and haunt me with the horrific nature of things. Every accomplishment feels hollow and unearned which is why I can barely ever muster up the urge to try. Maybe that's just laziness though.

 

[Sensei]

OP, I don't disagree with what you've written, but I'd like to add that bipolar depressive episodes are different from "normal" depressions. Bipolar disorder has a well documented genetic component and bipolar episodes don't necessarily follow logic.

 

[User200]

I'm not a real doctor but I once saw a YouTube video that said that the episode with this scene from South Park is supposed to describe true depression:


Which is weird because when I first saw this episode I thought it was just what getting older must be like, right? Though after seeing the episode again multiple times I have to agree that seeing everything as shit isn't normal, it's just overly cynical. I've tried to mellow out my opinions on things and not be too harsh but it seems that if even one person has something bad to say about something I like, it sends me into a downward spiral. That's probably how my self loathing got started too.

I don't know if any of that is actually what depression is supposed to be. For me it just feels like no matter how happy I get which admittedly can happen easily due to my feeble mind, at the end of the day if I'm given any time to reflect or pause, my grim reality comes back to taunt and haunt me with the horrific nature of things. Every accomplishment feels hollow and unearned which is why I can barely ever muster up the urge to try. Maybe that's just laziness though.

I'm only speaking from my personal experience and from hearing others so take my words with a grain of salt but I think that some therapy in your case will help alot, but this is from what i read only. You said that you can easily get happy and that is a very positive sign. For 3 to 4 years I lived without that. You have to figure out a way how to appreciate your accomplishments more and when your brain starts to tell you that you got this grim reality, try to fight it somehow. I think talking to someone twice a week will help you . People will be be impressed by your achievements and therapists that studied on psychology will appreciate them even more . For example if a heavily depression person manages to do just 30 mins of walking and take a shower everyday, Therapists would give him a Nobel prize if they could. It's like saying if a person who suffered an injury, been in a wheelchair and after a long time managed to take a first step .

And it also seems that you care alot about what other people think, just like me in that way. I just care about their happiness so much more than I care about the thing i like for example, Again therapy will help in this aspect too.

I don't think you need any meds. Just talking to someone, try and fight your brain whenever it feels like torturing you with negativity

Its much easier said than done but I pulled through a time where I taught no solution was earthly possible . I genuinely believed that the meds destroyed me completely and damaged me permanently , and even when I started tapering off them I was still stuck in that void of emptiness and hopelessness , till one fine day I just wasn't .

You need to somehow start a positive snowball effect in your life

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm only speaking from my personal experience and from hearing others so take my words with a grain of salt but I think that some therapy in your case will help alot, but this is from what i read only. You said that you can easily get happy and that is a very positive sign. For 3 to 4 years I lived without that. You have to figure out a way how to appreciate your accomplishments more and when your brain starts to tell you that you got this grim reality, try to fight it somehow. I think talking to someone twice a week will help you . People will be be impressed by your achievements and therapists that studied on psychology will appreciate them even more . For example if a heavily depression person manages to do just 30 mins of walking and take a shower everyday, Therapists would give him a Nobel prize if they could. It's like saying if a person who suffered an injury, been in a wheelchair and after a long time managed to take a first step .

And it also seems that you care alot about what other people think, just like me in that way. I just care about their happiness so much more than I care about the thing i like for example, Again therapy will help in this aspect too.

I don't think you need any meds. Just talking to someone, try and fight your brain whenever it feels like torturing you with negativity

Its much easier said than done but I pulled through a time where I taught no solution was earthly possible . I genuinely believed that the meds destroyed me completely and damaged me permanently , and even when I started tapering off them I was still stuck in that void of emptiness and hopelessness , till one fine day I just wasn't .

You need to somehow start a positive snowball effect in your life

Thanks for the advice. I've had therapists before but they always only made me feel better during one hour sessions and often times even though I can find ways to get happy easily (usually just by watching stuff) I just feel even worse whenever that's over or I have to face any sort of hardship. I think the issue is the only things that do make me happy are tied to the various ways I escape reality. Confronting reality itself is what hurts and my oversensitive ass hates the idea of bothering to look for a job knowing I'm ready to die.

I kind of hate going out, exercising, or any bullcrap like that because I've already tried them and they don't work. I do go on walks in my neighborhood but only during this quarantine. Once that's over I'm giving it up because it did nothing for me.

You're right on the meds though. I don't think those would help me at all because I'm known to skip out on any medications I'm prescribed due to sheer forgetfulness (setting reminders doesn't work because I often just ignore them and tell myself to go fuck himself). Even my diabetes medication I've been failing to take properly. Imagine what havoc I'd wreak upon my already fragile mental state if I were to take meds and then repeatedly not take them over and over.

I do think some positive change would help me recover but unfortunately I know for a fact it's never gonna come from within. The fact is no matter how much I wish it weren't true, there needs to be a miraculous external force to come in to save the day deus ex machina style and bathe me in good feelings while nothing bad happens to me for the rest of my life that could upset this balance. I know it's kind of silly to wait for that so I'm not holding my breath.

 

[User200]

Thanks for the advice. I've had therapists before but they always only made me feel better during one hour sessions and often times even though I can find ways to get happy easily (usually just by watching stuff) I just feel even worse whenever that's over or I have to face any sort of hardship. I think the issue is the only things that do make me happy are tied to the various ways I escape reality. Confronting reality itself is what hurts and my oversensitive ass hates the idea of bothering to look for a job knowing I'm ready to die.

I kind of hate going out, exercising, or any bullcrap like that because I've already tried them and they don't work. I do go on walks in my neighborhood but only during this quarantine. Once that's over I'm giving it up because it did nothing for me.

You're right on the meds though. I don't think those would help me at all because I'm known to skip out on any medications I'm prescribed due to sheer forgetfulness (setting reminders doesn't work because I often just ignore them and tell myself to go fuck himself). Even my diabetes medication I've been failing to take properly. Imagine what havoc I'd wreak upon my already fragile mental state if I were to take meds and then repeatedly not take them over and over.

I do think some positive change would help me recover but unfortunately I know for a fact it's never gonna come from within. The fact is no matter how much I wish it weren't true, there needs to be a miraculous external force to come in to save the day deus ex machina style and bathe me in good feelings while nothing bad happens to me for the rest of my life that could upset this balance. I know it's kind of silly to wait for that so I'm not holding my breath.

I'm not telling do drugs lol but if your waiting for a spiritual miracle , hang in there . Some doctors are working on testing out micro dosing with lsd and shrooms and marijuana. Shrooms have been known to do miracles with some people but at the same time it could ruin lives if your disposed to scitsophrenia and psychosis . So you have to wait for doctors to master these natural things out and give you the actual go ahead .

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'm not telling do drugs lol but if your waiting for a spiritual miracle , hang in there . Some doctors are working on testing out micro dosing with lsd and shrooms and marijuana. Shrooms have been known to do miracles with some people but at the same time it could ruin lives if your disposed to scitsophrenia and psychosis . So you have to wait for doctors to master these natural things out and give you the actual go ahead .

Eh, I wouldn't touch the stuff even from a micro dose unless it really takes a single dose...which I doubt because I've had marijuana before and it didn't do much for me.

 

[quakociaptockh2]

I have a theory from evolutionary psychology that depression is the reaction to being abandoned by the tribe.

In ancient times, when a member of society did some misfit, he would be cast away from the tribe and left alone.

It all makes sense now:
- Being left alone in the jungle is a life threatening state, an emotion well understood by most who have depression.
- When depressed, you are "lazy" and unable to move, both physically and mentally, from dopamine lows. This might be a simple adaptation to save energy.
- You often feel guilty, reflecting on what "sin" you did to deserve the punishment of being abandoned.
- You feel absolutely out of control and you often wait for a savior, usually in a form of a person who will take care of you.
- Other people instinctively avoid the depressed, maybe because they were the actual misfits, and usually say it's all their fault without listening to arguments.

Possibly the best strategy when left by the tribe was to lie down and rot, hoping for someone from another tribe passing by to accept you.

In today times we are left alone without any actual sin, yet we still get the same reaction, including feeling guilty. Also, sometimes the "guilt" is not something bad in moral sense, yet still something that's maladaptive from the tribe's point of view, like disability.

This is only my theory.

 

[noaccount]

"Bipolar" AKA Manic-Depressive experiences, can also be caused, by a diverse range of different causes.

Yes, often the loss of tribe or community is a trigger for all kinds of complications, that our commodified world just wants to brush over and doesn't give us the tools to understand...

 

[Mentalmick]

I always thought of depression as being your soul was in pain. Although I don't believe is souls so I don't know how that works. Maybe your actual conscience/subconscious is damaged or something.

 

[Last chance]

I don't know the true cause of it,but the way I would describe it is like being dead while still being alive. There is 0 motivation,0 hope and 0 joy. When I am depressed,which at the moment is 99.9% of the time I simply exist,I breath,my heart beats,I drink water and go to the bathroom,I sometimes have the energy to eat and that is is.

Everything that's mentioned that might make me feel better seems impossible to do. Part of my mind agrees that these things would probably help while the other,stronger part dismisses them because in a strange way it enjoys being in this state.

Depression is true and overwhelming hopelessness.

 

[WornOutLife]

Depression, that weird thing which can tear your world apart whenever it feels like, no matter how great your life is.