Story My motivation to CTB: bullying destroyed my life

[Emptiness]

First of all, English is not my mother language, so I need to do an additional effort to write well; in any case, apologies in advance for my poor English.

I'm nearly my thirties and both my childhood and teens have been stained by constant bullying which I suffered for almost ten years. This generated a vicious circle in the form of a devastation spiral, as I describe next. By nature, I am an extremely introvert person (caused partially by the insecurity coming from my ugliness), which always has severely burdened my relationships with people, especially with the opposite sex. This, together with terrible looks, is cannon foder for bullies, which see in a person satisfying these conditions a great chance to bully him with relative ease, in order to gain further social status. In turn, as I was suffering it, that made me even more insecure and introverted, which, again, in turn made me even more susceptible to be bullied, and so on. That's where the vicious circle comes from.

The result of all this has been a broken toy at the adulthood. Although my academic performance was pretty good (especially once I stopped being bullied, but by the mere effect of aging, not because of own merits) and that now I have a well-paid job related with my postgraduate studies, I have not been able to overcome all the side effects that such empty and dark period of my life left me. Being exposed for almost a full decade and almost day by day to all kind of humiliations without receiving the slightest sign of affectivity or empathy can be critical, especially at an early age. And indeed it was in my case.

To put it even worse, my looks and the psychological devastation caused by that period has deprivated me of any kind of chance to alleviate that pain, by finding someone of the opposite sex with which heal these wounds with the affectivity that I was lacking back then. However, this is only normal, because everything is related and the answer can be found easily by analyzing the issue under a more objective point of view through biologic considerations: my genetics is pure garbage, and such misfortune has been the main catalyst of the bullying I received and the rejection of the opposite sex. It makes no sense to blame society for this, yet neither blame myself for having lost the genetic lottery. This was just random misfortune, no more no less. And while it is true that free will implied to my bullies attacking me as an option and not as an imperative, which makes them directly guilty of my suffering, it's also true that this is how the social hirearchy works among most living beings: the weaker ones are suppressed and do not reproduce for the good of the species.

Now, despite living under a financially stable situation and working with something related with my intellectual interests, I feel that the sensation of pain that has been besieging me for almost my whole life has transcended to a different plane, until creating a sensation of an absolute emptiness and existential nihilism. I feel that everything that I was suspecting even when I was still a child is actually happening at a baffling accuracy. The "best" period of human life has been completely wasted away in my case and all what remains for me is a monotone life while walking alone through a descending slope, in which the aging effects and their consequences in the health will lower even more my inner integrity.

For all these considerations, and after separating the most visceral point of views (conditioned by feelings) from the most rational ones (cold-hearted thoughts), I have concluded under any of both points of view that the most efficient choice is to put end to my life. After all, I have not asked anybody to live nor gave anybody permission to bring me there. So, it is only natural to have the will to disappear from a world in which not only I have not requested to live in, but also has been too hostile and cruel with me, and that in fact can be unbelievably hostile and cruel with so many people at absolutely insane levels.

 

[reginafilangie]

Im so nervous about giving so many personal details and being discovered, but fuck it.

Everything is my fault. I had a pretty dysfunctional childhood, but I managed. I've never had mental health issues or anything of the sort, I just figured it out. I've been on my own, out of the family home for a very long time and have lived in a different city than them for 15 years. Despite coming from an abusive, addicted and insane family, I could manage because I had a solid group of friends who loved and supported and would do anything for me.
9 months ago I lost my little brother in a horrific and preventable accident (I wasn't there, it happened in my hometown). I don't want to get into the details it's just too much but I lost my mind. I lashed out at everyone and everything important to me. I lost my job, all of my friends, my (severely dysfunctional family), blew up my finances completely, had to find somewhere new to live, my reputation is destroyed and I have literally no one left in my life. I spent my birthday and Christmas completely alone this year, not because I wanted to.
I managed to get myself another job but it is extremely high stress and I feel like it is slowly edging me towards a breakdown. I don't have the luxury of not working, I have no safety net, and no one to call for help.
I have a counsellor, she's alright but none of these problems are solvable, I did this to myself and have no way to dig myself out.

Since January I have gone to bed every night hoping that I don't wake up. I sleep maybe 1.5 hours a night, the other 22 hours a day my thoughts are consumed with killing myself. Even at work, I might be distracted while completing tasks but I think about dying all day, every day. I see the train (cargo not passenger) on my way home and think, that wouldn't be so bad. I look at the frozen lake and think, once it melts i'll be able to drown.(I don't live alone and refuse to inflict the torment of finding me on the people I live with.) I have a vehicle but nowhere to drive it into or off of. N isn't an option. Licensing for a gun takes forever here, the course is expensive and only offered at certain times. I have thought of this charcoal CO method quite often, (mainly because my vehicle is my only option with regards to location) but I just can't bring myself to purchase what I need to. This is not because I have some shred of hope that life will get better. I know it won't. Things are only going to get much harder practically speaking (ie. financially). Dealing with this all alone is what has pushed me over the edge. I went from being the one in the group that everyone was obsessed with to being completely blacklisted. I can't fault anyone, I acted like a lunatic. I've gone on an apology tour and have had zero response. I destroyed the most important relationships in my life.
I have never had these thoughts a day in my life, the word suicide wasnt even in my vocabulary and now I am consumed. It's hard for me to understand (those who have friends and families and support) motivations to be on a forum like this and want to end their lives. I would kill to have a family or friends who cared about me. I hope no one takes that the wrong way. I have relatives who I watched suffer with various mental illnesses growing up as a child but never really understood what that might have felt like until now.

I can't bring myself to follow through because I'm too scared I will fail. My first attempt must be my only and final attempt. I found this forum and thought hoorah there must be a foolproof method if I research enough.Turns out, there isn't.
9 months ago I was in such a good spot, (I had regular everyday problems like everyone else) but then it was like my right arm was ripped off. In response, I threw a torpedo at my life, blew it the fuck up and am now living with the consequences of my actions. I can't do this alone any longer. I have no options, nowhere else to go and feel trapped in a small town which is a constant reminder of how much of a total idiot I am. I hate myself, I hate my life and I just want it to be over.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

First of all, English is not my mother language, so I need to do an additional effort to write well; in any case, apologies in advance for my poor English.

I'm nearly my thirties and both my childhood and teens have been stained by constant bullying which I suffered for almost ten years. This generated a vicious circle in the form of a devastation spiral, as I describe next. By nature, I am an extremely introvert person (caused partially by the insecurity coming from my ugliness), which always has severely burdened my relationships with people, especially with the opposite sex. This, together with terrible looks, is cannon foder for bullies, which see in a person satisfying these conditions a great chance to bully him with relative ease, in order to gain further social status. In turn, as I was suffering it, that made me even more insecure and introverted, which, again, in turn made me even more susceptible to be bullied, and so on. That's where the vicious circle comes from.

The result of all this has been a broken toy at the adulthood. Although my academic performance was pretty good (especially once I stopped being bullied, but by the mere effect of aging, not because of own merits) and that now I have a well-paid job related with my postgraduate studies, I have not been able to overcome all the side effects that such empty and dark period of my life left me. Being exposed for almost a full decade and almost day by day to all kind of humiliations without receiving the slightest sign of affectivity or empathy can be critical, especially at an early age. And indeed it was in my case.

To put it even worse, my looks and the psychological devastation caused by that period has deprivated me of any kind of chance to alleviate that pain, by finding someone of the opposite sex with which heal these wounds with the affectivity that I was lacking back then. However, this is only normal, because everything is related and the answer can be found easily by analyzing the issue under a more objective point of view through biologic considerations: my genetics is pure garbage, and such misfortune has been the main catalyst of the bullying I received and the rejection of the opposite sex. It makes no sense to blame society for this, yet neither blame myself for having lost the genetic lottery. This was just random misfortune, no more no less. And while it is true that free will implied to my bullies attacking me as an option and not as an imperative, which makes them directly guilty of my suffering, it's also true that this is how the social hirearchy works among most living beings: the weaker ones are suppressed and do not reproduce for the good of the species.

Now, despite living under a financially stable situation and working with something related with my intellectual interests, I feel that the sensation of pain that has been besieging me for almost my whole life has transcended to a different plane, until creating a sensation of an absolute emptiness and existential nihilism. I feel that everything that I was suspecting even when I was still a child is actually happening at a baffling accuracy. The "best" period of human life has been completely wasted away in my case and all what remains for me is a monotone life while walking alone through a descending slope, in which the aging effects and their consequences in the health will lower even more my inner integrity.

For all these considerations, and after separating the most visceral point of views (conditioned by feelings) from the most rational ones (cold-hearted thoughts), I have concluded under any of both points of view that the most efficient choice is to put end to my life. After all, I have not asked anybody to live nor gave anybody permission to bring me there. So, it is only natural to have the will to disappear from a world in which not only I have not requested to live in, but also has been too hostile and cruel with me, and that in fact can be unbelievably hostile and cruel with so many people at absolutely insane levels.

We rarely hear about how characteristics people have no control over--like appearance (studies show plastic surgery doesn't tend to give people the advantages of, um, desirable appearance)--can themselves make people's lives not worth living. Or when we do hear about it, we tend to ignore it--pretend no one actually talked about it. Or worse, we label the people who talk about it as creeps, lurking predators. Maybe society does this because it so loathes people who aren't pretty it just doesn't care what happens to them. Too damn sad.

 

[Emptiness]

We rarely hear about how characteristics people have no control over--like appearance (studies show plastic surgery doesn't tend to give people the advantages of, um, desirable appearance)--can themselves make people's lives not worth living. Or when we do hear about it, we tend to ignore it--pretend no one actually talked about it. Or worse, we label the people who talk about it as creeps, lurking predators. Maybe society does this because it so loathes people who aren't pretty it just doesn't care what happens to them. Too damn sad.

The plastic surgery failure makes sense. After all, by doing that, one is only trying to camouflage the genetic flaws instead of solving them (which in turn is impossible by now), and thus deceiving the hypothetical partner into mating and reproducing, transmitting these hidden flaws to offspring at the expense of their partner and, what's worse, the offspring itself, which most likely will have to deal with such flaws as well. So, it is only natural that evolution and natural selection have mechanisms to detect and despise even those who try to "cheat" about their genetic quality. This why we see as unnatural most people who has had a plastic surgery, even if the results are highly successful in terms of the result of the clinical intervention.

As for people's reaction taking the heat out of the issue, I think it may be due to different causes:

One of them is related to loathing unattractive people, as you stated, which in turn is connected to the instinct of getting rid of the weaker individuals from the group. It is common to identify ugly people with simpletons and inferior to people with respect to other persons with better looks than them (the so-called halo effect), and thus that enables some sort of validation of the idea that their suffering is less worthy of consideration than those suffered by people with better looks. But I don't think this attitude is evil by itself or even conscious, nor any kind of a similar Manichaean consideration regarding that idea. This is because despite our rationality, we are still animals and we are irrevocably attached to our biological instincts, including those which conditions us to look down upon indiviudals with genetic flaws.

The other one is that most people who are unaffected by looks is so used to it that they don't even conceive that the lack of them may, and in fact DO, cause so many issues and limitations in life. And in fact, under their naive point of view I can understand why do they see things like they do, because it is difficult to understand why an issue which apparently doesn't involve a direct physical limitation, actually involves many indirect limitations which may in fact end up ruining one's life. The problem is that they miss the main point: looks use to be an accurate reflection of the genetic quality, hence the treatment that will receive a person, especially when it comes to the social interaction, will be strongly conditioned by this factor.

 

[Kyrok]

I am not good looking. Especially before my 30s, I looked totally nerdy. But, I've always been bold. Here's a story.

When I was about 30, I spent the summer in Las Vegas counting cards. I was, though, very lonely. One day, I was at the UNLV library photocopying some articles. Beside me was a gorgeous girl and I struck up a conversation. I asked her out, being totally frank about getting bored with my card counting summer, and she said yes (my academic pedigree helped in this as she recently graduated from Stanford).

She picked me up at my extended stay hotel and we went to the MGM. We talked, drank, began to make out. At one point, she went to the restroom and an onlooker from the bar approached me, asking how "someone like you" could get such a girl. He asked if I were rich or a move producer. As she returned, I merely answered "maybe I'm just a nice guy." She and I had a night, which is all she wanted. Basically, she was home visiting family and were she normally lived, she had reasons for not dating.

That kind of set off a streak for me, which lasted for much of the next 8 yrs, until I got married.

Yet when I was in my teens and early 20s, I had zero appeal and only the rarest of opportunities, basically because I came across as very nice and very smart.

So, I get where you're coming from. I was there.... and btw, my health is horrible. In fact, I chose to not have children for various reasons, but that was one. How did I meet women? I was interesting, bold, honest. Also, after one painful break-up, I took a stab at online dating. Slept with a few women, and met my wife that way too -- a professor.

The world is full of lonely people, both sexes, unable to connect. 90% of dates go nowhere. But if you can carry a two-way conversation, many women will be interested. I grant that extreme bad looks can be a serious barrier, but bland looks, routinely below-averagle looks, etc. matters far less once you're in your 30s, educated, financially stable, etc..

 

[Xaphous]

I can relate, I've been pretty much housebound since I left school after bullying. Both primary and secondary school, so this affected my chances to make any friends in college although I did manage to have a few people to converse with there. After being blackmailed by a teacher I quit college and that was it. Never had a job, no social life, never had a relationship. Just stuck isolated every year of my life, every birthday, every occasion with nowhere to go and no one to even talk to.

I'm too mentally fucked to do anything in life now at 29. Other people destroyed my chances in life and I'm left to rot in isolation for the rest of it. There are no opportunities to change it. I left school with good grades and got good qualifications in college but can't find a job, any job. I'm discriminated against for having no experience so I am unemployable. I am unable to claim disability benefits for mental health since no one is willing to diagnose me with anything apart from depression and anxiety so I have to live without any money also.

No freedom no outlet no money and no opportunities for anything. So what am I supposed to do then? nothing, kill myself or continue to suffer. The system is hoping I kill myself. At least other people have jobs, I am probably faced with homelessness eventually.

 

[F_ckthisplace]

I've come to the same conclusion under similar circumstances.

 

[Walilamdzi]

@Xaphous That's hard. Do you live with someone? I would have thought someone would give you a chance even without experience.

 

[Emptiness]

I am not good looking. Especially before my 30s, I looked totally nerdy. But, I've always been bold. Here's a story.

When I was about 30, I spent the summer in Las Vegas counting cards. I was, though, very lonely. One day, I was at the UNLV library photocopying some articles. Beside me was a gorgeous girl and I struck up a conversation. I asked her out, being totally frank about getting bored with my card counting summer, and she said yes (my academic pedigree helped in this as she recently graduated from Stanford).

She picked me up at my extended stay hotel and we went to the MGM. We talked, drank, began to make out. At one point, she went to the restroom and an onlooker from the bar approached me, asking how "someone like you" could get such a girl. He asked if I were rich or a move producer. As she returned, I merely answered "maybe I'm just a nice guy." She and I had a night, which is all she wanted. Basically, she was home visiting family and were she normally lived, she had reasons for not dating.

That kind of set off a streak for me, which lasted for much of the next 8 yrs, until I got married.

Yet when I was in my teens and early 20s, I had zero appeal and only the rarest of opportunities, basically because I came across as very nice and very smart.

So, I get where you're coming from. I was there.... and btw, my health is horrible. In fact, I chose to not have children for various reasons, but that was one. How did I meet women? I was interesting, bold, honest. Also, after one painful break-up, I took a stab at online dating. Slept with a few women, and met my wife that way too -- a professor.

The world is full of lonely people, both sexes, unable to connect. 90% of dates go nowhere. But if you can carry a two-way conversation, many women will be interested. I grant that extreme bad looks can be a serious barrier, but bland looks, routinely below-averagle looks, etc. matters far less once you're in your 30s, educated, financially stable, etc..

My reply is so long that it surpasses the 10.000 character limit, so I will have to split it into two separate messages.

Part 1:

I'm deeply and honestly glad to see you managed to overcome a similar situation, and I wish you the best with your current partner and with your life in general. However, I have only told the most generic part of my story without going into further details. Since you were trying to point out that my situation can be changed in a future by comparing it with your case (undoubtedly with good intentions on your part), I will expound below the reasons why both situations cannot be compared, by deepening further into my own circumstances, albeit being aware that some of the details are deeply shameful (yet, again, not dependent of my decision-making capacity, but rather my innate limitations).

Before anything else, I would like to clarify, as I did before, that the source of my problem is not the loneliness in itself, since it is rather a consequence of the real issue: my poor genetics. Loneliness and bullying have been a consequence of it, and while it is true that they both are factors that contributed to impoverish substantially my quality of life in terms of inner wellness, the source of the problem is much deeper than that, and this is what actually concerns me, since it is an irremovable factor: being a biologically unfit individual.

Therefore, we could say that there are complex relations of cause-consequence among these factors, where poor genetics implied suffering bullying, and both of these phenomenons, namely, poor genetics and bullying, leaded to rejection of the opposite sex and thus loneliness. And there is no doubt that this, albeit being the ultimate consequence of the aforementioned facts, is also a contributor of my self-discomfort, because it is a crystal clear confirmation of the source of such problem by itself, being no longer a mere hypothesis but rather a confirmed fact.

Either way, since your comment was focused in this latter part, namely, loneliness and relationships with the opposite sex, I will expose further details related with this, so that you can understand that my will to disappear is motivated by a set of solid considerations. After all, I don't care anymore about revealing these details, and even less taking into account that I'm telling all this from anonymity.

As I told before, I have always had serious problem to interact with other people, as I'm very closed in myself, but especially with the opposite sex. This effect was even aggravated during the period of my life in which I was suffering bullying, in which even the girls took advantage to that weakness to remind me what I already knew: my scarce biological value, externalized, among many other factors, in form of ugliness. We could say that boys exercised the job of humiliating me physically and, to a lesser extent, verbally; while girls did the same but most of times verbally and, to a lesser extent, physically. This last part is very important, since albeit they abused me physically less than boys, the physical scar produced by 200ºC hot melt glue (silicon) that I have in one of my hands came from a girl. The reason of this? Gratuitous loathing; I was so dehumanized that they could even afford attacking me in these sort of brutal forms without any kind of remorse. I still don't know why I didn't end up killing someone, but I guess that I had as well so much self-loathing that I had rooted in my subconscious the idea that I deserved all that for being genetic thrash.

Time passed by and finally, about the age of 16, and after many school changes (my parents thought wrongly, in their naivety, that the problem was specifically related to the particular classmates I was having instead of my DNA), bullying ceased by itself. And as I also stated previously, that was not own merit nor because of I did anything special to stop that situation. It did simply because once one arrives at a certain age there seems to be no longer need to obtain further status and acceptation by bullying weaker people, while other sort of interests and alternatives to gain them arise.

The psychological damage, however, was already done permanently. I have grown as a dark and closed person, in an increasing extent as I was suffering further bullying episodes, and that didn't stop when all that stopped. It was simply that I remained being like that, acting with extreme distrust, fear and even contempt in front of any person, as any abused animal does by instinct.

(Continued in the next message)

Edit: Oh, gosh. I cannot reply with the second part because the forum system tries to merge it automatically with this message and there appears the error of the 10.000 characters limitation. I will have to wait for somebody to reply before being able to post the second part. For now, I have attached here the full reply in txt format.

 

[Kyrok]

I appreciate your extended reply (I read the attached .txt file). It may be that our situations differ enough in degree that my eventual successes aren't likely in your case. But I do understand being treated poorly because of one's looks and how others can be cruel to those they see as inferior.

It is also apparent that you're bright and well educated. While that may not be enough to counter your issues with health, looks and sex, it seems you've achieved something of meaning thereby. Nevertheless, you're obviously unhappy and you see it as unlikely that your situation will improve sufficiently to make life worth living.

Personally, I see bad genetics as a reason to not have children, though not necessarily a reason to ctb. I have scoliosis, a heart condition, deformed ribcage, crooked teeth, awful myopia, and various other conditions. Fortunately, I found a woman comfortable with who I am and likewise not keen on children.

As for your sexual dysfunction, I wonder if it is an anxiety you could overcome. I assume there are sex therapists... Though I realize you're sick of your issues and just want to be done. Certainly, I get like that too.

I am, however, curious about your looks and wonder if others see you as negatively as you see yourself. There is a thread on this board for members to post pictures of themselves. Would you be so willing?

 

[Ruffian]

I just read your whole text and it is a little difficult to understand, probably because English is not your first language. I would like to see a picture of you as well if you are not afraid of posting one. I have a hard time believing you are truly as ugly as you think, it just sounds like those bad experiences as a child really ruined any ability to see anything positive about yourself. But I can't be 100% sure because obviously I don't know you in person. Also, do you know that there is medication for low testosterone? I had a boyfriend who had it and could not get or maintain an erection sometimes. There are injections that raise your testosterone - I don't know what country you are in, but maybe you could look into it? Plus, low testosterone can cause severe depression, which it sounds like you most certainly have. I feel like I am always trying to talk people out of ctb, and maybe I should stop doing that. But I'm pretty old, and I just see a lot of people with problems that I've sen before that could be solved. So I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, but really there may be something that could help you. And not all women are as horrible as the ones you have been with. I'm a pretty woman - much more so when I was younger, and I never went after a guy for his looks or his money. I don't know - your story makes me sad and I just wish I could say something to help. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well.

 

[Emptiness]

I appreciate your extended reply (I read the attached .txt file). It may be that our situations differ enough in degree that my eventual successes aren't likely in your case. But I do understand being treated poorly because of one's looks and how others can be cruel to those they see as inferior.

It is also apparent that you're bright and well educated. While that may not be enough to counter your issues with health, looks and sex, it seems you've achieved something of meaning thereby. Nevertheless, you're obviously unhappy and you see it as unlikely that your situation will improve sufficiently to make life worth living.

Personally, I see bad genetics as a reason to not have children, though not necessarily a reason to ctb. I have scoliosis, a heart condition, deformed ribcage, crooked teeth, awful myopia, and various other conditions. Fortunately, I found a woman comfortable with who I am and likewise not keen on children.

As for your sexual dysfunction, I wonder if it is an anxiety you could overcome. I assume there are sex therapists... Though I realize you're sick of your issues and just want to be done. Certainly, I get like that too.

I am, however, curious about your looks and wonder if others see you as negatively as you see yourself. There is a thread on this board for members to post pictures of themselves. Would you be so willing?

You're right when you make the distinction between the dichotomies of having / not having children and a worthy / unworthy life. I had crystal clear since I learned the basics of reproduction, evolution and natural selection in Biology that I didn't quality to reproduce, also out of empathy towards the hypothetical offspring. And that neither implied in my case to sustain the idea of suicide, although I suspected (with certain accuracy, as can be seen) that the day in which I considered that idea might come sooner or later.

Also, I'm sorry for the physical problems you're facing, but I guess that counting on your wife's love and support may give you extra energy to carry on. Your position on not wanting to having children also honors you both, for the reason I stated above. Life is cruel and relentless towards any form of life, which makes reproduction by itself a cruel or, as minimum, naive act; therefore, it is even more cruel/naive when the progenitors know beforehand that their offspring is going to suffer an additional bunch of problems with respect to other individuals.

You may be right with your suggestion about treating my sexual dysfunction, but perhaps I didn't even bother to go to a therapist because somehow I see pointless to treat something which anyway most likely will not be needed anymore. Perhaps, as you suspect, it's the fact that there are so many issues surrounding me with complex causality relationships what have made me ending fed up of them all and directly giving away.

As for the picture of myself, now that I have revealed without mincing words all the intimate details about my life, it is even more difficult for me to share something which points directly towards my true identity, despite knowing that the chances that some user or observer of the forum knows me in real life are almost zero. Maybe I could upload a pic of me in a zip file protected with a password and give it by PM to those users asking for it, as long as I consider them as reliable enough. But I still need to deeply think about it, since in any case my opinion about myself is going to remain the same, because it is the objective facts that I have lived what actually matters in order to form a solid opinion about myself.

I just read your whole text and it is a little difficult to understand, probably because English is not your first language. I would like to see a picture of you as well if you are not afraid of posting one. I have a hard time believing you are truly as ugly as you think, it just sounds like those bad experiences as a child really ruined any ability to see anything positive about yourself. But I can't be 100% sure because obviously I don't know you in person. Also, do you know that there is medication for low testosterone? I had a boyfriend who had it and could not get or maintain an erection sometimes. There are injections that raise your testosterone - I don't know what country you are in, but maybe you could look into it? Plus, low testosterone can cause severe depression, which it sounds like you most certainly have. I feel like I am always trying to talk people out of ctb, and maybe I should stop doing that. But I'm pretty old, and I just see a lot of people with problems that I've sen before that could be solved. So I'm not trying to talk you out of anything, but really there may be something that could help you. And not all women are as horrible as the ones you have been with. I'm a pretty woman - much more so when I was younger, and I never went after a guy for his looks or his money. I don't know - your story makes me sad and I just wish I could say something to help. Whatever you decide to do I wish you well.

Thank you for reading the text and for your advices. Indeed, English is not my first language and I have several difficulties to express myself with a minimum of accuracy, I'm sorry for that. As for the requested picture, you can see my opinion in the last paragraph of the reply that I have written to the above user. I still have to think about it, but, either way, my opinion about me is based in objective facts, those who have surrounded me during my life.

I also have thought about asking for testosterone injections, but perhaps in this aspect I'm too harsh with myself and refuse to do so under the following premise: "if nature has conveived me as a loser without virility, why should I trick everyone else into seeing me as a different person with respect to the one I actually am?". In any case, I agree with you that maybe I should put aside that philosophical considerations and be more "selfish" in that sense. I also think that my emotional pain might be related not only to my past, but also to such lack of testosterone, since there are peer-reviewed articles which confirm that correlation. But I return now to the point that I exposed in the reply to Kyrok: I have so many things to fix (which in translates to genetic flaws) that merely thinking about it makes me give up before even considering to try solving or "patching" them.

Moving to the next topic, of course I know that not all women are as toxic as the ones that tricked me. In fact, one of the main lessons that taught me all the years in which I suffering bullying is that cruelty is agnostic about the sex of the person exercising it. There are many cruel people in this world, a significative proportion with respect to the total poblation, and such cruelty is evenly distributed between both sexes, perhaps with significative differences between them depending on the area of study, but still not enough to conclude some sort of Manichean idea about some intrinsic evil in only one of the two genders. Many women have hurted me just as many men have done so as well, so there would be nonsensical and irrational for my part to hold only resentmen towards only women. I always try to avoid fallacious generalizations towards groups of people and treat each individual as he/she deserves by their own actions, and not based on the group of people to which they belong. So, don't worry about that, visceral generalizations are not my thing.

I also appreacite your willingness to help. I don't think that much else can be done to help me, but by reading me and writing your reply I think you have done more than enough with respect to what I actually deserve. In any case, I wish you well too.

 

[Ruffian]

Dude, you sound so intelligent too. That probably makes it worse - you probably know that being smart makes you more prone to depression.

 

[Emptiness]

Dude, you sound so intelligent too. That probably makes it worse - you probably know that being smart makes you more prone to depression.

Intelligence is a very complex concept which embraces many possibilities, making very difficult to define a solid quantitative criteria to determine whether an individual is intelligent or not. In this sense, I don't consider myself intelligent because, even when perhaps I have a certain degree of analytic and "academic" intelligence, I am one of the dumbest persons conceivable in other aspects, such as in terms of social interaction. Otherwise, I would not have suffered bullying nor have been tricked so many times by some malicious women.

 

[AmbleNorth]

Just curious - and I promise I'm not going to belabor the point with you, but what makes you say your genetics are poor?

 

[Emptiness]

Just curious - and I promise I'm not going to belabor the point with you, but what makes you say your genetics are poor?

Don't worry, I always try my best to stay away from dogmatic points of view, so discussion is always welcome. I think that my genetics are poor because of two main reasons: one of them is self-perception (subjective) and the other one refers to the external validation (more objective).

As for the self-perception, I find myself as a facially ugly person, with very few traces of virility (low levels of testosterone) and as a little flimsy thing. If a random male different than me was to be chosen, he would be, with an extremely high chance, a person showing much more physical strength, virility and beauty than me. Therefore, this means that in terms of social and sexual hierarchy I'm at the very bottom.

Let us move now to the external validation. Having suffered bullying for almost a whole decade and having being ignored systematically by women is also a crystal clear indication (this time much more objective) of my genetic inferiority, which can be also observed in almost any other animal species: an individual is despised in the herd and sexually discarded if and only if doesn't meet the minimal requirements to show that the genes to be passed to the offspring are worthy enough.

 

[AmbleNorth]

Don't worry, I always try my best to stay away from dogmatic points of view, so discussion is always welcome. I think that my genetics are poor because of two main reasons: one of them is self-perception (subjective) and the other one refers to the external validation (more objective).

As for the self-perception, I find myself as a facially ugly person, with very few traces of virility (low levels of testosterone) and as a little flimsy thing. If a random male different than me was to be chosen, he would be, with an extremely high chance, a person showing much more physical strength, virility and beauty than me. Therefore, this means that in terms of social and sexual hierarchy I'm at the very bottom.

Let us move now to the external validation. Having suffered bullying for almost a whole decade and having being ignored systematically by women is also a crystal clear indication (this time much more objective) of my genetic inferiority, which can be also observed in almost any other animal species: an individual is despised in the herd and sexually discarded if and only if doesn't meet the minimal requirements to show that the genes to be passed to the offspring are worthy enough.

I see. Would you say that your depression is caused by the inability to find a woman? That once you're in a suitable relationship, your problems with ctb will reconcile?

 

[Emptiness]

I see. Would you say that your depression is caused by the inability to find a woman? That once you're in a suitable relationship, your problems with ctb will reconcile?

I would rather say that the inability to find a woman is the consequence of my bad genetics, which is actually what depresses me, namely, the idea of being an inferior individual. Certainly the inability to attract a woman contributes to make everything worse, but in turn is merely a consequence of the real source of the problem, which is the poor genetics in itself.

 

[AmbleNorth]

I would rather say that the inability to find a woman is the consequence of my bad genetics, which is actually what depresses me, namely, the idea of being an inferior individual. Certainly the inability to attract a woman contributes to make everything worse, but in turn is merely a consequence of the real source of the problem, which is the poor genetics in itself.

Got it. Since I don't know you personally, I have no meaningful way to give you an objective assessment of those inferior features (not that you asked for it, anyway). But, I do know this complaint about facial/bodily features is very common among people who are depressed. I remember the comedian Brody Stevens, before ending his life, would constantly complain about his face - noting he'd spend hours looking in the mirror, disgusted with himself. Note that he was seemingly okay with other parts of him, but it was his face, specifically, that he couldn't get over. In an old interview with Joe Rogan, Joe asks if he takes any medication for it, and he says something to the effect of,, "Yeah, when I'm on medication I still think about it, but I care about it a lot less". I look at Brody and see a handsome guy. Not trying to tell you that you're wrong or blow smoke up your ass, but this often happens with people who are prone to depression. For all I know, maybe you're correct about everything.

I have similar thoughts about myself regarding a physical feature and have rejected the few women that have tried to get close to me on the basis of this feeling of inferiority. I don't feel comfortable getting into it, but it's not my face. When I take medication, the thoughts abate a bit (though don't completely go away). When I'm off of it, it's all I ever think about. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Emptiness]

Got it. Since I don't know you personally, I have no meaningful way to give you an objective assessment of those inferior features (not that you asked for it, anyway). But, I do know this complaint about facial/bodily features is very common among people who are depressed. I remember the comedian Brody Stevens, before ending his life, would constantly complain about his face - noting he'd spend hours looking in the mirror, disgusted with himself. Note that he was seemingly okay with other parts of him, but it was his face, specifically, that he couldn't get over. In an old interview with Joe Rogan, Joe asks if he takes any medication for it, and he says something to the effect of,, "Yeah, when I'm on medication I still think about it, but I care about it a lot less". I look at Brody and see a handsome guy. Not trying to tell you that you're wrong or blow smoke up your ass, but this often happens with people who are prone to depression. For all I know, maybe you're correct about everything.

I have similar thoughts about myself regarding a physical feature and have rejected the few women that have tried to get close to me on the basis of this feeling of inferiority. I don't feel comfortable getting into it, but it's not my face. When I take medication, the thoughts abate a bit (though don't completely go away). When I'm off of it, it's all I ever think about. Just my 2 cents.

I have always considered myself ugly since I was about 8. Maybe this means that I have have been depressed during all these 20 years from that moment, but the thing is that, independently of my subjective considerations, I have received that "feedback" from other people in the context of bullying, usually girls in this particular case, so this is a very solid evidence to confirm objectively my subjective autoperception. But the thing does not limit itself to the ugliness; the poor genetics I'm referring to also involves many other factors, which can be read in the txt file I attached some messages above.

As for the medication, I have never been in treatment nor have taken any sort of medication, I just dealt with it by myself all this time. The only exception was when my parents found out that I was being bullied, who, after just telling me that I should endure it or solve it by myself (ignoring in their benevolent naivety that being genetically inferior doesn't solve magically by just wanting to be superior), they finally came to the conclusion that I might need some sort of help and sent me to a psychologist. By that time I had pretty clear that the problem was in the depths of my genetic code and that no brainwashing was going to convince me of anything contrary to the reality. And so it was; the treatment was completely sterile and pointless, and I just ended up telling my parents to stop wasting their money uselessly.

 

[dandan]

The "best" period of human life has been completely wasted away in my case and all what remains for me is a monotone life

and everything getting harder

For all these considerations, the most efficient choice is to put end to my life.

I'm like you with similar reasoning. I'm not ugly though, on the outside, but ugly on the inside ... Yeah I got my ugly parts... Still is hard to go... Mom loves me so much, but she is not the one with a hard life ahead .... She didn't had it easy but that's her choice ...

 

[AmbleNorth]

I have always considered myself ugly since I was about 8. Maybe this means that I have have been depressed during all these 20 years from that moment, but the thing is that, independently of my subjective considerations, I have received that "feedback" from other people in the context of bullying, usually girls in this particular case, so this is a very solid evidence to confirm objectively my subjective autoperception. But the thing does not limit itself to the ugliness; the poor genetics I'm referring to also involves many other factors, which can be read in the txt file I attached some messages above.

As for the medication, I have never been in treatment nor have taken any sort of medication, I just dealt with it by myself all this time. The only exception was when my parents found out that I was being bullied, who, after just telling me that I should endure it or solve it by myself (ignoring in their benevolent naivety that being genetically inferior doesn't solve magically by just wanting to be superior), they finally came to the conclusion that I might need some sort of help and sent me to a psychologist. By that time I had pretty clear that the problem was in the depths of my genetic code and that no brainwashing was going to convince me of anything contrary to the reality. And so it was; the treatment was completely sterile and pointless, and I just ended up telling my parents to stop wasting their money uselessly.

I hear you. Far be it for me to tell you what the objective truth is about your reality - what constitutes who you are, what you've been through, and how and why people react toward you the way they do, I still echo the thoughts about anti-depressants being helpful for this sort of compulsive thoughts/beliefs (whether true or not). Just throwing it out there that it may help you find peace. Or it may not. I read your long-form reply. I enjoy your writing. On account of that alone, I don't think your genetics are garbage.

 

[Emptiness]

I hear you. Far be it for me to tell you what the objective truth is about your reality - what constitutes who you are, what you've been through, and how and why people react toward you the way they do, I still echo the thoughts about anti-depressants being helpful for this sort of compulsive thoughts/beliefs (whether true or not). Just throwing it out there that it may help you find peace. Or it may not. I read your long-form reply. I enjoy your writing. On account of that alone, I don't think your genetics are garbage.

I think the most effective method to find peace is ceasing to exist (I haven't known anybody complaining about that method). Joking apart, maybe anti-depressants can be temporally useful as a patch, but they are that, a patch. They just alter temporally one's perception to create a mirage of wellness, which, as such, creates a dependence once one gets used to it (the downfall sensation is even more pronounced), losing effectivity and requiring progressively stronger drugs, generating thus a vicious circle. Certainly I wouldn't like to be involved in such a destructive dependence.

As for the genetic quality, you might have a point with your considerations, like I admitted some messages above. But with genetic quality I usually refer to the qualities which actually matter in a wild status, namely, strength, leadership, virility, dominance, beauty, health, sociability... And I don't have any of that. Moreover, despite you may have created some idea of me according with my way of expressing myself and reasoning, the reality is that in real world I'm a socially inept individual with a extremely slow reaction time, which cannot even express himself properly in real time. I'm a totally different person with respect to the idea one gets from me after reading my messages, because in the latter case I have time enough to carefully meditate and rephrase as much as necessary until obtaining the desired result.

 

[dandan]

I have time enough to carefully meditate and rephrase as much as necessary until obtaining the desired result.

This

 

[AmbleNorth]

I think the most effective method to find peace is ceasing to exist (I haven't known anybody complaining about that method). Joking apart, maybe anti-depressants can be temporally useful as a patch, but they are that, a patch. They just alter temporally one's perception to create a mirage of wellness, which, as such, creates a dependence once one gets used to it (the downfall sensation is even more pronounced), losing effectivity and requiring progressively stronger drugs, generating thus a vicious circle. Certainly I wouldn't like to be involved in such a destructive dependence.

As for the genetic quality, you might have a point with your considerations, like I admitted some messages above. But with genetic quality I usually refer to the qualities which actually matter in a wild status, namely, strength, leadership, virility, dominance, beauty, health, sociability... And I don't have any of that. Moreover, despite you may have created some idea of me according with my way of expressing myself and reasoning, the reality is that in real world I'm a socially inept individual with a extremely slow reaction time, which cannot even express himself properly in real time. I'm a totally different person with respect to the idea one gets from me after reading my messages, because in the latter case I have time enough to carefully meditate and rephrase as much as necessary until obtaining the desired result.

It's possible that you have a perception bias regarding the qualities you believe you lack -- Newton was not the congenial picture of health, beauty, sociability, virility, etc but he single handedly (at least independently of Leibnitz) took humanity to the next level. I get the feeling your pronounced feelings of rejection are guiding your self-perception rather than an objective look at the nature of people -- that being the best looking, most virile, sociable man doesnt necessarily count for a much better life if you're otherwise gratified by a woman or people who care about you lacking those characteristics. In other words, ultimately, the limiting factor here is not those genetic factors, but the behavior of other people -- how people respond to you. You have far more control of that than your genes would imply.

 

[Emptiness]

It's possible that you have a perception bias regarding the qualities you believe you lack -- Newton was not the congenial picture of health, beauty, sociability, virility, etc but he single handedly (at least independently of Leibnitz) took humanity to the next level. I get the feeling your pronounced feelings of rejection are guiding your self-perception rather than an objective look at the nature of people -- that being the best looking, most virile, sociable man doesnt necessarily count for a much better life if you're otherwise gratified by a woman or people who care about you lacking those characteristics. In other words, ultimately, the limiting factor here is not those genetic factors, but the behavior of other people -- how people respond to you. You have far more control of that than your genes would imply.

Of course one's self-perception isn't and will never be objective. In fact, any qualitative analysis can never be truly objective, because, to begin with, it is merely that, qualitative. However, using that as a pretext to incur in unconditional relativism is intellectually dishonest. Despite the difficulty to quantify some human values and virtues, we can establish a criteria to quantify, with certain error range, these qualitative analysis, for instance by considering the average of the score/feedback given by a representative sample. This is useful for instance to measure the beauty of a person, where one isolated feedback has no objective value by itself, but averaging thousands of them can be a useful approach for a good estimation of an accurate value/score.

So, social interaction with a large enough number of persons is a good indicator of these parameters. For instance, as occurred in my case, being bullied by hundreds of persons, in different contexts, places, schools and ages, without exception, is a good indicator that something is really wrong with me, and to be more precise, with my genetic code. Therefore, both things, the behaviour of other people towards me and the genetic quality itself, are strongly related. Physical and psychological aggressions, as well as rejection, brought emotional pain for me, while the later confirmation that it was due to my bad genetics brought me the rational pain. And there's no possible control when one truly has bad genetics: people, as animals we are, have an impeccable inner algorithm to detect the weakness, social awkwardness and the insecurities derivated from all these factors. Destroying and/or excluding the weaker ones is in our most basic nature, because it goes in favor of our primary goals as species: survival and evolution.

 

[AmbleNorth]

Of course one's self-perception isn't and will never be objective. In fact, any qualitative analysis can never be truly objective, because, to begin with, it is merely that, qualitative. However, using that as a pretext to incur in unconditional relativism is intellectually dishonest. Despite the difficulty to quantify some human values and virtues, we can establish a criteria to quantify, with certain error range, these qualitative analysis, for instance by considering the average of the score/feedback given by a representative sample. This is useful for instance to measure the beauty of a person, where one isolated feedback has no objective value by itself, but averaging thousands of them can be a useful approach for a good estimation of an accurate value/score.

So, social interaction with a large enough number of persons is a good indicator of these parameters. For instance, as occurred in my case, being bullied by hundreds of persons, in different contexts, places, schools and ages, without exception, is a good indicator that something is really wrong with me, and to be more precise, with my genetic code. Therefore, both things, the behaviour of other people towards me and the genetic quality itself, are strongly related. Physical and psychological aggressions, as well as rejection, brought emotional pain for me, while the later confirmation that it was due to my bad genetics brought me the rational pain. And there's no possible control when one truly has bad genetics: people, as animals we are, have an impeccable inner algorithm to detect the weakness, social awkwardness and the insecurities derivated from all these factors. Destroying and/or excluding the weaker ones is in our most basic nature, because it goes in favor of our primary goals as species: survival and evolution.

I don't really have a sophisticated response here. If I believed about myself what you believe about yourself, then I would have a view of the world so full of misanthropy and contempt for other people, that I wouldn't kill myself - i would parade my inferior self around and brazenly participate in society like all the rest as a dare to others - the ubermensch, to come kill me instead. I'd behave as if I weren't inferior and if they didn't like it, they could come kill me. You mention genetic survival, right? So they can come kill me to prove that I'm inferior, because genetic inferiority is not enough of a reason to do it myself. I would live to spite other people not to spite myself. What's 100 more bullies? Come bully me, motherfuckers. The runt of the litter still fights his predator before he dies. If it was too unbearable, lonely, and sorrowful to live, I would take medication to ease that pain, and continue to live in that enmity. If I have taken all those steps, and life proves too unbearable to follow through, and I feel that I cannot overcome those feelings, then I would decide to end -- but not before spitting back on those that spit on me. I wouldn't lay down like a dog if I have some bite left. Your big issue is that you feel like you have no semblance of control - that it's all in your DNA and your volitions mean nothing because it's all hopeless anyway. You lost the genetic lottery. Well there's your control: Dare to live like you're not inferior. Dare them to kill you for it.

That's just what I feel regarding your situation. I'm in a place in my life and have taken so many wrong turns due to too many mistakes that can't be fixed. If I had an opportunity to bite back, I would. But I can't. In many ways I envy you.

 

[Emptiness]

I don't really have a sophisticated response here. If I believed about myself what you believe about yourself, then I would have a view of the world so full of misanthropy and contempt for other people, that I wouldn't kill myself - i would parade my inferior self around and brazenly participate in society like all the rest as a dare to others - the ubermensch, to come kill me instead. I'd behave as if I weren't inferior and if they didn't like it, they could come kill me. You mention genetic survival, right? So they can come kill me to prove that I'm inferior, because genetic inferiority is not enough of a reason to do it myself. I would live to spite other people not to spite myself. What's 100 more bullies? Come bully me, motherfuckers. The runt of the litter still fights his predator before he dies. If it was too unbearable, lonely, and sorrowful to live, I would take medication to ease that pain, and continue to live in that enmity. If I have taken all those steps, and life proves too unbearable to follow through, and I feel that I cannot overcome those feelings, then I would decide to end -- but not before spitting back on those that spit on me. I wouldn't lay down like a dog if I have some bite left. Your big issue is that you feel like you have no semblance of control - that it's all in your DNA and your volitions mean nothing because it's all hopeless anyway. You lost the genetic lottery. Well there's your control: Dare to live like you're not inferior. Dare them to kill you for it.

That's just what I feel regarding your situation. I'm in a place in my life and have taken so many wrong turns due to too many mistakes that can't be fixed. If I had an opportunity to bite back, I would. But I can't. In many ways I envy you.

Well, we could say that even after all I had to pass through I could have a "normal" life (loneliness, social awkwardness and sorrow aside) and a decent academic performance, which ultimately led to equally decent jobs. So, in this sense, we could say that after all, I have been able to have a half normal life without even having had to pass through mental care. And this, in some measure, was partially motivated by your first consideration, namely, facing nature's laws as response to its affront. However, this has been actually a mere self-deception, for the reasons I describe next.

First, I have never been actually happy about the small achievements that I may have been able to get, because inside of me there was still the permanent idea of being a loser (which is consistently sustained by all the tangible consequences of my poor genetic quality). We could say that I have had punctual moments of ecstasy after some minor achievements in my life (caused by dopamine, which is a short-term neurotransmitter), but never a long enough period in which I felt that I was actually having a fully satisfactory life (produced by serotonin, a long-term neurotransmitter).

Second, nobody actually cares about what I achieve or cease to achieve, except obviously my family, which have an innate strong bias in favor of their close relatives due to the blood ties. As for the bullies, the idea about giving them "a lesson about self-improvement", which is commonly seen in movies and encouraged by politically correct people, is both pointless and even nonsensical: bullies couldn't care less about their victims both at the moment of attacking them and, even more, after that. Their victims were just a mere object with which increase their status or just feel better with themselves by a sensation of superiority; therefore, independently of whether their victims become in the future Nobel prizes or homeless, they couldn't even care less, because their victims never had the least significance in their lifes to begin with.

Third and last, forcing myself to live just expecting "poetic justice" in terms of taking revenge of humanity by trying to be "normal" and overcome my own natural limitations as a life goal, instead of living by and for me and my own happiness, is pretty pointless as well. If I came to the conclusion that CTB was definitely the most efficient choice was precisely because of that, namely, being pointless to merely live to take revenge of the society and the nature laws by trying to overcome all the difficulties which implies having poor genetics; while also being pointless to live by and for myself, taking into consideration that I will never be able to have the slightest sign of happiness after knowing under a more objective point of view (based in a representative sample of interactions) how pathetic I am as individual.

So, what is the point to keep going on? My usual self despises its own existence, as it does with living beings' existence in general (as existence by itself is intrinsecally interleaved with suffering, regardless of the individual considered). Hence, there is no point to artificially prolong such existence by taking drugs that tie me to an existence I didn't ask to live, merely to carry on just because, as the only valid reason. I would have per se serious doubts to carry on after these philosophical reflections, regardless of my quality of life, so even more taking into consideration the large amount of limitations and regrets that I have and will have to face every single day of my life.

 

[FTL.Wanderer]

So, what is the point to keep going on? My usual self despises its own existence, as it does with living beings' existence in general... Hence, there is no point to artificially prolong such existence by taking drugs that tie me to an existence I didn't ask to live, merely to carry on...

I generally agree that (1) the person living the life is the only one whose opinion on whether or not that life is "worth it" matters, and (2) living out of spite or for reasons others tell you/us matter is (at least to us) counterproductive. Hope you find some peace with the conclusions you reach.

 

[AmbleNorth]

Im merely saying that's the tack I would take if I held those beliefs. To each his own.