Venting My issues with MAID

[L1egeCh0cholate]

The whole debate around MAID for mental illness misses the point - it's not about 'allowing suicide', it's about recognizing that some peoples suffering is just as terminal as cancer. When your brain is the illness and decades of treatment havent worked, why is that pain less valid than physical pain?

I know folks worry about 'slippery slopes', but the current system is crueler. We force people to either suffer endlessly, attempt violently, or lie about physical symptoms to qualify. That's not protection - that's abandonment. The real question should be: if someone has tried EVERYTHING (therapy, meds, ECT, you name it) for 10+ years and still wants out... who are we to say they must keep enduring hell??

 

[divinemistress36]

I agree fully with this. Cause they dont think Mental illness is as bad as physical suffering

 

[L1egeCh0cholate]

I agree fully with this. Cause they dont think Mental illness is as bad as physical suffering

For me, suffering is suffering no matter what kind it is. If you are in constant pain, it should be stopped and be seen as an act of mercy. People don't see mental ILLNESS as an illness, it's really crazy. They act all merciful while withholding mercy.

 

[FuneralCry]

It's just so cruel to me how they wish to force and prolong suffering no matter what, I'd personally never wish to suffer in this torturous, futile existence where there is no limit as to how much agony one can feel and I always suffer so much from how peaceful guaranteed death is denied for me, I just want to never suffer ever again, I only hope for non-existence and I'd always prefer to not exist instead of suffering all for the sake of it.

 

[L1egeCh0cholate]

It's just so cruel to me how they wish to force and prolong suffering no matter what, I'd personally never wish to suffer in this torturous, futile existence where there is no limit as to how much agony one can feel and I always suffer so much from how peaceful guaranteed death is denied for me, I just want to never suffer ever again, I only hope for non-existence and I'd always prefer to not exist instead of suffering all for the sake of it.

''Erm you can't die if you're mentally ill ''

Like okay bro, you can tell who's been mentally ill before making these rules...

 

[divinemistress36]

For me, suffering is suffering no matter what kind it is. If you are in constant pain, it should be stopped and be seen as an act of mercy. People don't see mental ILLNESS as an illness, it's really crazy. They act all merciful while withholding mercy.

I know its awful. Some people dont understand why I cant work when I look normal. They dont understand mental illness makes it so you cant function

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

My main issue with MAID is that i have such little faith in the government that i don't trust them with killing me properly lol

 

[doneforlife]

The whole debate around MAID for mental illness misses the point - it's not about 'allowing suicide', it's about recognizing that some peoples suffering is just as terminal as cancer. When your brain is the illness and decades of treatment havent worked, why is that pain less valid than physical pain?

I know folks worry about 'slippery slopes', but the current system is crueler. We force people to either suffer endlessly, attempt violently, or lie about physical symptoms to qualify. That's not protection - that's abandonment. The real question should be: if someone has tried EVERYTHING (therapy, meds, ECT, you name it) for 10+ years and still wants out... who are we to say they must keep enduring hell??

There could be a lot of scenarios where even waiting for 10 years could be brutal.

 

[SomewhatLoved]

I think you sort of captured this in your post, but part of the problem is that mental illness is still not seen as legitimately as physical illness in many ways. A few decades ago it was common for parents to tell their kids "depression isn't real, just be happy" and I'm sure that still happens a quite a bit. Over the last decade or so it has been legitimized a lot, but it still has a long way to go.

Recently I attended a training conference at work and there was an indigenous speaker discussing how in western medicine we really only look at physical health and sometimes mental health - but in indigenous medicine they would consider the physical, the mental, the emotional, and the spiritual. I think if mental health (or emotional/spiritual for that matter) is legitimized the same way physical health is, this issue will go away and it will be accepted.

I would honestly say my reason for wanting to CTB is more spiritual than anything and it just has to do with my beliefs and general outlook on life. I think we would all benefit, both in life and death, if we adopted a more comprehensive approach to healthcare.

 

[alivefornow]

My issue with MAID is how unavailable it is. Realistically I will never be able to access MAID, living in Brazil and not having nearly enough money. I can't even make money for MAID, because that is career money and I can't build a career when suicide is on my mind every single moment of my life. So unfortunately I will have to find my own way out of this hell and into the next one, no matter how violent and destructive against my body it has to get.

 

[L1egeCh0cholate]

Adding on to that, Google says: ''To be eligible for Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) in Canada, a person must be at least 18, eligible for publicly funded health services, have a grievous and irremediable medical condition, make a voluntary request, and give informed consent''

I think if someone where to be diagnosed with a 'grievous and irremediable' mental illness (condition) they should at least have access to MAID if they fill all other conditions.

 

[wiggy]

I believe that the moral argument around setting a threshold for MAID is not an intrinsically different position than opposing the right to die outright. Either you're in favor of a person's right to self determination or you're against it. Setting a parameter for what should be acceptable as a third party is extremely presumptuous. Nobody except the person whose life is affected should have any say in it.

In practical terms it's different, though. MAID is particularly important for people who are afflicted by grave physical illnesses because they are likely suffering more than people who wish to kill themselves because of other circumstances and, most critically, are less likely to be able to achieve it without the assistance of others. If you're able bodied, there's not much the State can effectively do to limit your right to suicide in the long term.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I imagine there's a darker side to it too. Imagine how much money these pharmaceutical companies and therapists etc. generate for decades on end.

 

[wiggy]

Now, when it comes to mental illness, that does introduce some complexity to the matter. Even if you are in favor of the right to assisted dying without the requirement of grave illness or suffering, it is reasonable to think that there should be a requirement that one should have to be of a sound mind to make that choice. I don't think that assisted suicide should be made available to someone who is actively psychotic or undergoing an acute episode of depression/delusion/hallucination etc. In the case of mental illness, the root motivation for the suicide may, definitionally, prevent that person from being able to think clearly and rationally. So in a sense it is impossible for any legitimate decision to exist regarding that person's suicide. You could argue that, in this context, the State would be making the decision to end that person's life on their behalf, which is obviously abhorrent.

 

[NitrogenAfternoon]

MAID is set to be passed here in Canada for those who are mentally ill in 2027 and I just know there's going to be more pushback when the time arrives. It's never going to feel possible to do it when they only consider it mental anguish. To them, it's as simple as "just stop thinking that way" and that is the cure. So now I have to take matters into my own hands. Imagine telling someone they don't have a right to make a choice with their own body. It's wrong on all facets.

 

[L1egeCh0cholate]

Now, when it comes to mental illness, that does introduce some complexity to the matter. Even if you are in favor of the right to assisted dying without the requirement of grave illness or suffering, it is reasonable to think that there should be a requirement that one should have to be of a sound mind to make that choice. I don't think that assisted suicide should be made available to someone who is actively psychotic or undergoing an acute episode of depression/delusion/hallucination etc. In the case of mental illness, the root motivation for the suicide may, definitionally, prevent that person from being able to think clearly and rationally. So in a sense it is impossible for any legitimate decision to exist regarding that person's suicide. You could argue that, in this context, the State would be making the decision to end that person's life on their behalf, which is obviously abhorrent.

I totally agree with that, I personally believe that people should be thoroughly evaluated before any action is taken and it should be done for a significant period of time. As I also mentioned before, I also think they should still fill the other requirements of MAID, one of which is to give informed consent.

MAID is set to be passed here in Canada for those who are mentally ill in 2027 and I just know there's going to be more pushback when the time arrives. It's never going to feel possible just have the mental anguish. To them, it's as simple as "just stop thinking that way" and that is the cure. So now I have to take matters into my own hands. Imagine telling someone they don't have a right to make a choice with their own body. It's wrong on all facets.

I can already hear people screaming that Canada is just trying to get rid of its mentally ill population because the system is overwhelmed—without even stopping to think about the people who actually choose this option or why they do. If you decide to CTB, you've most probably seen and explored the others options beforehand.

 

[wiggy]

I totally agree with that, I personally believe that people should be thoroughly evaluated before any action is taken and it should be done for a significant period of time. As I also mentioned before, I also think they should still fill the other requirements of MAID, one of which is to give informed consent.

Realistically, I still think the problem I described would be limited to edge cases. Even when people are afflicted by mental health struggles bad enough that they would wish to end their own life, only a very small minority are outright disconnected from reality to the point that their decision making powers should be limited.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

In general, I think there is public awareness that mental illnesses exist as a concept, but very little knowledge is spread about the range of illnesses a person can suffer from. Every single person I have ever encountered in real life, except maybe one or two, has universally agreed that mental illness (no specification as to which one though) is always curable and manageable in some way, and think any argument against this is baseless nihilism or the bias of a "mentally ill person lacking in judgement". Even though places like this website are glaring evidence that this is not always the case. There is a huge refusal to acknowledge the poor quality of life for many people with untreatable illness.

I have not met a layperson, a clinician, or even future scientific researchers, who will admit or acknowledge that there are cases of mental illnesses which are incapable of being resolved with modern treatment methods. I know why people think this way, and there is more plausible deniability or justification for them to think this way, because they can't truly see the inner anguish or unhappy life another person is living day in and day out.

It's much easier to determine a prognosis if you physically see someone with a grim physical manifestation of something. Like, if you saw someone with severe gangrene, it would be a reasonable assumption that they are having a medical emergency and that dead tissue needs to be removed ASAP. People can see the level of suffering clearly with their own two eyes. When someone is experiencing extreme emotional pain day in and day out, it is very hard for the average person to "see" it and understand unless they have personal experience with this sort of thing themselves.

I think this is the rationale behind why MAID keeps getting blocked and is only available in very few countries. Gathering any information about treatment resistant mental illnesses is an elephant in the room not many people want to address, because it isn't really a "positive" narrative, even though this stubbornness is constantly setting back rights and progress for those who want things to change the most.

Awhile ago I saw a comment on the therapists subreddits, where many therapists were admitting that their colleagues didn't really believe in autonomy in general, not in regards to self-determination of mortality or anything like that, but they wanted to boss clients around about personal life choices they didn't like- not being religious, being religious, being openly gay or trans, quitting a job, not quitting a job... As long as people like this who want to micromanage everyone else and make decisions for them "for their own good" (AKA what they want, not the patient) are calling the shots in the medical sociolegal sphere, it is going to be difficult to have a more open discussion. These types of people think they know better than whatever the patients have to say in every single scenario, and few people push back on the bs.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

The ideological position of seeking permission to perform an act of self-agency is oxymoronic to me.

Handing over the reigns of self-agency to the state is a terrible idea. It will quickly morph into eugenics and commodification. Best solution imo is allow some liberty for specialty doctors like Jack Kevorkian and protected access to the appropriate medications. The majority of ctb methods don't require a doctor so the MAiD issue boils down to medication access.

 

[Ijustcantanymore]

Bottom line is this:

We are NOT the property of our governments. And until that is the case. They have no right to tell us we can't die on our terms, and any effort to gatekeep the tools in which humans can be allowed to die peacefully, painlessly and with dignity is nothing more than cruelty and a desire to control other people. And any one that uphold that, well, why don't you just do us all a favor and disappear.

 

[Halfhourdays]

I resent my government keeping me alive against my will.

 

[Nemaki Arber]

They'll crack down on people using a specific method because of how effective it is but they'll never look into why it's happening in the first place and keep cracking down on new methods we find

How dare we want the pain to end, how dare we want control over when we leave this current existence