Help My facade has been exposed and father probing me

[TAW122]

I don't know what to make of this... Anyways, so here is the story and what happened just today. So lately during this pandemic and lockdown (stay-at-home orders in some states), I'm currently living at parents' home, and also my father is mostly home (since he is currently working from home). It has been almost 2 months since the lockdown, and over 4 months living at parents' home (while I do appreciate having a place to stay, I still wish to move out to be on my own, to be independent and living away from family, due to personal and privacy reasons).

It all started when my father was checking on my progress towards finding a job and doing productive things (learning new skill and going somewhere in life). He realized that I wasn't doing much to help my future or working as hard as I should and somehow had a discussion about my future as well as what I should do (save up for retirement, and what not). So somehow the discussion took a turn towards death and what not. I stated that well if I ever gotten to the point where I couldn't take care of myself and had to rely on caretakers, I'd just rather be dead (hospice or even euthanized). He seemed to think it was a logical and understandable situation. Somewhere in the discussion, he seemed to have been tipped off (either a red flag or due to my poor performance at working towards finding a job or a decent job even) such that I was thinking of CTB'ing when I'm young and (physically) healthy.

This was when trouble started. He stated that one must work hard in life, get a good job, (basically normie and NPC shit) people should want to live, to thrive, to succeed, earn lots of money, make a good living, usual bullshit. He projected a lot and also tried to gaslight me by claiming that my position and my own stance, credibility, is wrong. Even went as far as guilt-tripping and stating that "TAW122, it's your ideas and attitudes as well as refusing to listen to my advice or people who have succeeded in life" which is why your life is in shambles. He isn't 100% wrong, but to invalidate my views and even gaslighting me for a "valid" position is just unacceptable. Things went back and forth and I do regret pressing it further.

At the end, he basically stated that "if you were to CTB, then don't let me know/find out.", "if you move out, it would be very difficult to keep track of your day to day activities.", and also that "People who want to CTB, will find a way and it's very easy for them to do so. It's staying alive and living that is arduous and takes a lot of effort." (He mentioned a story in my neighborhood that about 10-11 years ago when the financial recession hit hard, a neighbor CTB'd in his own house and that it was easy for him. I recall that day I was still in college and was at home during that time, I saw lots of police cars and perhaps a coroner going in to investigate that day. Our street was blocked off for almost an entire day due to all the cops and investigators being at the neighbor's house.) He couldn't be further from the truth. The survival instinct (SI) is a bitch and also not everyone has access to reliable and/or painless (let alone peaceful) methods. I didn't press it further, but I'm worried that with him knowing my secret, my plan to CTB in the future may be in jeopardy, I fear.

I really hope to be able to move out of my parents' place in order to have more privacy and be able to CTB more easily. Also, since this stupid pandemic limits freedom of movement (even around the state/cities/or even going around in public), it will be hard to move out. Furthermore, since things are heated right now, I am unable to make any moves or take any actions towards my CTB plans as it's too risky and dangerous at this point (might need to take a lot of time).

What are your thoughts on this? Does anyone have any suggestion on what my best options are in this situation? I am hoping to CTB later this year, but with things uncertain, Also, please don't jump on me before understanding my situation in it's entirety. I am in fear that my future plan to CTB may have been compromised or tainted now. While I am not exactly bright in terms of social interactions and also knowing when to stop or getting carried away, I just ask that you be gentle with me during this time, thanks.

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Saving money and moving out before you CTB would be the best option if you are able to do that after the quarantine is over. I don't know how easy it would be to find a job right now. Some states (U.S.) are lifting some restrictions depending on where you live.
If you can't leave your parents house … maybe get a P.O. Box and have anything you might order delivered there. That still doesn't help with a location to CTB though. Does your father actually know the CTB meaning or did he just call it suicide ??? I didn't think that many people outside of Suicide Forms knew that term.
I can't think of any other suggestions ATM but if possible try to smooth things over with your father.

 

[I screwed up]

Well I too live with my parents and although they don't know abt my desire to ctb I guess they would react similarly. OK so what I think is the best move now is that u stay as normal as possible and do as ur parents expect u to so that not give them any idea of ur real plan. Wait for lockdown to pass by , then u would have access to more methods and means to ctb. I dont know abt ur financial situation to source the resources etc but that can be figured out during these days of lockdown when u act and do everything ur parents expect u to do. So then when the time is right u are ready ... Well that's my plan at least.

 

[PrettyMoose]

Must work hard, must get a job, must this, must that...

The only thing that we truly must do is die. The question is when, not if.

 

[toomuchgrief]

PP above said:
The only thing that we truly must do is die. The question is when, not if.
--------------------------------------------

This.

When someone determine enough, when someone will to die become more than their will to live, they will find a way to die, regardless live at home or not. If the person still find some enjoyment in life, even just a little bit, they not going to finish themselves.
When I want to die, I will just drive my car with a shotgun in my trunk, drive up the hill or somewhere not have alot of people, get out of the car or stay in the car, point the muzzle to my head and BAM, blow my brain out.

Who can stop me from driving my car with a gun in there and blow my head out? Nobody

Who I live with, stay home or not stay home it irrelevant. It the WILL to die. Once that become bigger than your want to live, that person will find a way.

And why I said who I live with is irrelevant, because it is, parents can't stop a person if they drive their car out with a shotgun in their car and finish themselves outself. Parents can't stop if the person drive to a bridge, or booked an airplane ticket to go jump a 2,000 feet bridge. etc... It all about how big of your WILL to die really.

 

[SipSop]

PP above said:
The only thing that we truly must do is die. The question is when, not if.
--------------------------------------------

This.

When someone determine enough, when someone will to die become more than their will to live, they will find a way to die, regardless live at home or not. If the person still find some enjoyment in life, even just a little bit, they not going to finish themselves.
When I want to die, I will just drive my car with a shotgun in my trunk, drive up the hill or somewhere not have alot of people, get out of the car or stay in the car, point the muzzle to my head and BAM, blow my brain out.

Who can stop me from driving my car with a gun in there and blow my head out? Nobody

Who I live with, stay home or not stay home it irrelevant. It the WILL to die. Once that become bigger than your want to live, that person will find a way.

I wish I could have a gun too. In my country is not easy to get one.
Makes the exit feel more at hand, more easy.

 

[attell2]

He seems like he genuinely cares about you, take that for what it's worth. My mom is absolutely terrible at advice but it's clear that she cares. It sounds like he's very concerned about you sticking around.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks for all the responses everyone. This morning, my father brought up about how sad he was when he learned I didn't like or enjoy "life" itself and wished I were dead. He went through a lot of emotional guilt-tripping and other bullshit like think about all the investment we put into your almost 30+ years of raising you, how he and mother would miss my childhood bedroom, not having someone at the dinner table, etc. Yes don't get me wrong, I don't like to have them suffer, but this puts me in a bind of a situation. He is not ok with the prospect of me going before he does, and he said if you are going, then you should wait until me and mother are gone (basically after parents' pass away - which could be over a decade or more from now). From that point on, then you could consider about CTB. He pressured me via emotion to get me to promise not to go before he does, and this is why I'm put in a bad situation (on one hand I don't want to break a promise to stay alive and suffer for an indefinite amount of time just so he and mother wouldn't be sad, but at the same time I made such a promise and would be difficult to break it, thus making me a shitty person). I could contest and argue and never agree to it, but I'm afraid that would only result in long hours and hours of arguments and stress and I didn't want to go through that, plus risk exposing my plan and secrets even more.

Saving money and moving out before you CTB would be the best option if you are able to do that after the quarantine is over. I don't know how easy it would be to find a job right now. Some states (U.S.) are lifting some restrictions depending on where you live.
If you can't leave your parents house … maybe get a P.O. Box and have anything you might order delivered there. That still doesn't help with a location to CTB though. Does your father actually know the CTB meaning or did he just call it suicide ??? I didn't think that many people outside of Suicide Forms knew that term.
I can't think of any other suggestions ATM but if possible try to smooth things over with your father.

My father doesn't know the term CTB and just uses the actual word, 'suicide' and I would rather him not know all the jargon because I don't need nor want to draw anymore attention to myself. Thanks, and as far as setting a PO Box, I've considered such a thing, just haven't thought about how to go at it, plus the costs and logistics. As for my method (firearm), it would always have to go through an FFL anytime a firearm is transferred, including even ordered online.

Well I too live with my parents and although they don't know abt my desire to ctb I guess they would react similarly. OK so what I think is the best move now is that u stay as normal as possible and do as ur parents expect u to so that not give them any idea of ur real plan. Wait for lockdown to pass by , then u would have access to more methods and means to ctb. I dont know abt ur financial situation to source the resources etc but that can be figured out during these days of lockdown when u act and do everything ur parents expect u to do. So then when the time is right u are ready ... Well that's my plan at least.

Yeah I think that is the most practical way to go about it. As for my financial situation, I'd say I'd probably have enough for a few months of rent (at my current financial situation), after expenses are taken care of (insurance, and other stuff). I have cut my expenditures significantly in the last 2 months because of the pandemic.

PP above said:
The only thing that we truly must do is die. The question is when, not if.
--------------------------------------------

This.

When someone determine enough, when someone will to die become more than their will to live, they will find a way to die, regardless live at home or not. If the person still find some enjoyment in life, even just a little bit, they not going to finish themselves.
When I want to die, I will just drive my car with a shotgun in my trunk, drive up the hill or somewhere not have alot of people, get out of the car or stay in the car, point the muzzle to my head and BAM, blow my brain out.

Who can stop me from driving my car with a gun in there and blow my head out? Nobody

Who I live with, stay home or not stay home it irrelevant. It the WILL to die. Once that become bigger than your want to live, that person will find a way.

And why I said who I live with is irrelevant, because it is, parents can't stop a person if they drive their car out with a shotgun in their car and finish themselves outself. Parents can't stop if the person drive to a bridge, or booked an airplane ticket to go jump a 2,000 feet bridge. etc... It all about how big of your WILL to die really.

Not saying you're wrong, but I believe it is difficult due to all the factors put in place. Even though one may wish to CTB (in my case), one may not always be comfortable and/or have access to the methods that will have a high chance (reliability) of success, accessible and affordable (personal circumstances as well as geographical location, e.g. Europeans in certain countries may not have ease of access to firearms so they go to different methods, US citizens don't have access to death with dignity unless they live in a state that has laws passed for that AND are terminally ill, etc.), and of course, depending on where they live and living situation (alone vs roommates vs family).

So in other words, what I mean is that while I may wish to die badly and may wish until my face goes blue, but without the right resources, methods, and circumstances (including overcame SI), then it would near impossible for one to CTB. Yeah I know people would rebut with "then you aren't really ready to die" which I disagree because you can have a strong desire but lack the means to. (e.g. I want to be able to fly without the aid of technology (airplane, glider, hot-air balloon, etc.), and I can fantasize and daydream about it all I want, but as a human being, not a bird or animal with wings, it simply isn't physically possible to do so.).

He seems like he genuinely cares about you, take that for what it's worth. My mom is absolutely terrible at advice but it's clear that she cares. It sounds like he's very concerned about you sticking around.

Yes, but that means that I would be just staying alive for an indefinite amount of time suffering until he and my mother passes (they're both senior citizens right now but it could be decades or longer until they pass from natural causes unless sudden health issues). I don't agree with the fact that I should just stay alive just so he and my mom (as well as my family) doesn't suffer and feel sadness. So it's selfish for me to die and my parents being upset but (according to my father) it's not selfish for me to stay alive and be miserable so they won't have to go through my death? I'm sorry, I just don't agree with that...

 

[toomuchgrief]

OP.

If someone who live in a country that citizens can't have access to guns, yeah. Or if someone is look up in a metal hospital where their freedom is strip away, yeah. But you not aren't you?

Didn't you say you have a gun? and you also drive? Then what is stoping you to put that gun in your trunk and drive out to somewhere and finish yourself? Your parents don't know you have a gun (according to what you say last time), and NOBODY can stop you from driving out.

Again, it all about the WILL to die. Ask yourself if you still find some enjoyment in life. I believe you do. You deep down inside KNOW if you really want to die or not, or if there is things you still enjoy in life that you don't mind hang around more for a while.

 

[TAW122]

Neither of those situations. I do live in the US and in a state with relatively lax gun laws especially with long guns.

I currently don't have a firearm, I had stored it at a gun store before I moved back home with parents (don't want my parents to know that I own a firearm). My state's stay at home has been lifted and things are slowly reopening, but social distancing still applies as well as non-essentials not really fully open yet though. I suppose if I can find a place, an alibi to leave home (if I am away for more than half a day then things would get suspicious as I currently live at my parents' place) for an extended amount of time, then yes, I believe I may be able to pull it off.

At this current time, I would say I'm not 100% ready but I mainly fear that if later this year (or even in the future) when I plan to CTB, given how the current situation with the pandemic is and with my father probing me as well as heightened suspicions, it makes things difficult. I suppose my best course of action is just to wait it out and find a time where I can move out of the home, even if temporary. Yes, it would suck to have my parents suffer if it comes to that (since I don't really plan on waiting for an indefinite time, stuck in limbo, unable to CTB nor enjoy life), but I simply cannot afford to keep suffering for their sake, just so they won't have to grieve or be sadden by my death for the remainder of their natural lifespan.

 

[toomuchgrief]

OP there nothing wrong with still find some things in life that still enjoyable, or not want to die. Overall human nature is to survive. Plus your parents bring you to this world NEVER want to see you CTB. It will hurt them to the core if their child suicide. This is regardless of how much children say their parents hate them or don't get along with their parents.

It ok if you not ready, or not want to die, plain and simple as that. My post not aim at you or anyone, I'm just saying when someone will to die is more than their want to live, they will do it.
There was a girl who live with her parents and brother, her brother have a riffle, when her parents not home she took the riffle and finish herself in the garage. See, her desperation to die, she find a way.

As for travel for essential, the freeway is pack with cars, and no police will stop every single car and ask where they going. The gov.recommend travel for essential like to grocery, visit family members, etc.. they leave it up to your conscience to follow the rule, only you know where you going is essential or not.
....
I have a car I can drive anywhere I want, I can lie and say that I go visit my grandma when actually where I'm going is up the hill somewhere and blast my head off. No cops will know. Unless you speed on the freeway, nobody will stop every single car and ask for proof where you going. Cops got better things to do. And this is not a Communist country, you can pledge the fifth, by law you not obligate to answer the cops question of where you going, that your personal business.

That just examples I give you, when someone get to the point of desperation, they will find a way to do it. Unless they lock in a mental institution where they under watch 24/7.

Again, it ok if you still want to live and not ready. People can fantasize all they want, but the reality is until you truly ready, you won't ever be able to follow through it. Easy talk but not easy done.

And all of us here like we, we all still want you around.

 

[TAW122]

Thanks for your kind words @toomuchgrief.

Also, just as an update, I still believe I want to go on with my CTB this year, I just need to get out of the house ASAP, even if I could live somewhere outside of my parents' place for like a few weeks or a month (or more), that would be ideal. That's my first step, then after that, live a bit while I get things together and this time, even more careful to not drop any hints or red flags. Finally, when I'm fully ready, I'll attempt (much later this year, but also dependent on how the pandemic is like by then).

I've just decided and also realized that my relationship with my mother isn't that great either and I just cannot stand her behavior and manners at home, so I'm already distanced from her from the get go. I've decided that I'm likely to have troubles with my father later in life and the longer I am around especially still living under his roof, the worse things become. Finally, for my sister, she hasn't been in regular contact with me for over the last few years, only occasionally asking how I'm doing IRL; so she's rather distant.

I also do have an 11th reason (to my previous list of all the reasons for wanting to CTB in 2020-beyond), but I would not be talking about it yet, not until I'm very close to CTB'ing. This is because I simply cannot risk getting traced back to me. The 11th or 11.5th reasoning is also a bit complicated.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

There's absolutely nothing wrong and selfish in what your father is telling you. And you can't realize how lucky you are to have a father that is speaking to you so openly. It takes a lot of courage to tell those things face to face and there are really really a few parents that are able to do that.
If he is able to speak about his fears on you suiciding, he is surely the type of father that can give advices with his heart to guide you through life.
Some of us have talked only to the hands of our fathers when we showed depression or demotivation to continue our studies or jobs. I myself wished that my father was more open to me and could talk to me when he didn't manage to understand how I was feeling.
Your father is not worried to suffer because you want to die before of him. He is doing every step that a reasonable person would do to show that there is another side of reality and he doesn't want to have the regret to have done all he could to show that to you. He is wise, not selfish.

 

[TAW122]

There's absolutely nothing wrong and selfish in what your father is telling you. And you can't realize how lucky you are to have a father that is speaking to you so openly. It takes a lot of courage to tell those things face to face and there are really really a few parents that are able to do that.
If he is able to speak about his fears on you suiciding, he is surely the type of father that can give advices with his heart to guide you through life.
Some of us have talked only to the hands of our fathers when we showed depression or demotivation to continue our studies or jobs. I myself wished that my father was more open to me and could talk to me when he didn't manage to understand how I was feeling.
Your father is not worried to suffer because you want to die before of him. He is doing every step that a reasonable person would do to show that there is another side of reality and he doesn't want to have the regret to have done all he could to show that to you. He is wise, not selfish.

You aren't wrong, but at the same time I cannot just keep living for decades or some indefinite amount of time (until both my parents are gone - which could be several decades) just so they won't be devastated by me being gone. Another thing that perhaps I may have mentioned in another thread or haven't is that growing up, I didn't have a good childhood and my father while he cared for me, he was on the tough love side, authoritarian style parenting and my childhood sucked. I won't get into details of everything he has done that are wrong, but I will admit there were times where my relationship with him was abysmal and only recovered to a tolerable level when I entered college.

 

[My_name_is_Luka]

I understand what you mean, as I had very strict parents too. They were using hands too often when I tried to oppose their reasoning, which has caused me to grow up with a constant feeling of being guilty. There is a moment in which many people realize how they have behaved and it happened also to my parents, but too late, after they have pushed my depression toward the biggest mistake of my life. They didn't condemn me for that, even if the life that they have tried to donate me has been ruined.
My father, like probably your father, was too proud of himself to understand that sometimes he was walking over the feelings of other people, me included.
I think that your father is trying to make peace with you. Whatever you choose, it's not nice to die with regrets.
(btw: my best time ever was when I started working and living on my own and I got proud realizing that I was not the failure that they made me think I was)

 

[Alain]

Tough situation, for sure. For now, as you live in his house, try you best being "normal" (I hate that word). He's a capitalist? Ok, talk about capitalism with him. He wants you to have a good work to make a good living? Play the game, try to find a new job. Who knows what the future can bring to you? Imagine becoming CEO of a successful company... It could be nice for getting that self-esteem we all need. Plus, you could take badass decisions like "Now, 10% of our profits will go to X association. If someone in this room disagree, I'll add his salary to the 10% and give his job to someone I like more". Damn, I'd like to have that power ^^

I don't say it will always be fun, I don't say you will succeed in everything you'll try, but there is something I know for a fact ; Being forced to do something we don't want to do at first can be a very interesting experience. When it happens, you start meeting new people with different perspectives on life, from different cultures... and great talks often comes from that. As I say ; "Be friendly to the people you wouldn't like to be friends with. At worst you'll learn things, at best you'll get a new friend".

At worst, you'll be bored talking to morons you hate, and you will stop talking to them as soon as you can live your parents house. It will help make you feel interest for new things in life and all kind of surprises can comes from it. Believe me, I'm really not the "half full glass" type of guy, but I know that a bad situation can give you things you would never expect.

As long as you can learn things, have quiet days, or even nice and good days, it's not entirely bad. Don't you think?

 

[TAW122]

Tough situation, for sure. For now, as you live in his house, try you best being "normal" (I hate that word). He's a capitalist? Ok, talk about capitalism with him. He wants you to have a good work to make a good living? Play the game, try to find a new job. Who knows what the future can bring to you? Imagine becoming CEO of a successful company... It could be nice for getting that self-esteem we all need. Plus, you could take badass decisions like "Now, 10% of our profits will go to X association. If someone in this room disagree, I'll add his salary to the 10% and give his job to someone I like more". Damn, I'd like to have that power ^^

I don't say it will always be fun, I don't say you will succeed in everything you'll try, but there is something I know for a fact ; Being forced to do something we don't want to do at first can be a very interesting experience. When it happens, you start meeting new people with different perspectives on life, from different cultures... and great talks often comes from that. As I say ; "Be friendly to the people you wouldn't like to be friends with. At worst you'll learn things, at best you'll get a new friend".

At worst, you'll be bored talking to morons you hate, and you will stop talking to them as soon as you can live your parents house. It will help make you feel interest for new things in life and all kind of surprises can comes from it. Believe me, I'm really not the "half full glass" type of guy, but I know that a bad situation can give you things you would never expect.

As long as you can learn things, have quiet days, or even nice and good days, it's not entirely bad. Don't you think?

I suppose there are some things I wouldn't have expected during this bad situation (including the pandemic which affects everyone around me and the world). I guess other than delaying my CTB date, it has allowed me a bit more time to do some personal projects. However, I think at the end it wouldn't matter because I'd be gone from this world so all my experiences and memories will end.