Discussion Maybe elaborate methods are designed to be impossible for a depressed person to complete.

[Lra888]

Paranoid thought: Maybe some of the more elaborate suicide methods shared here are actually designed by pro-lifers to be so absurdly difficult for a depressed person to complete that it's intended to keep us alive.

I'm not saying they don't work if followed—I mean realistically in my depressed suicidal state i cannot conceive of having the energy or motivation to acquire these chemicals, gas tanks, set up bitcoin, travel to secluded locations, build air-tight tent gas chambers, wait weeks for n/na to arrive, purchase and administer a series of anti-nausea meds. These plans are all very involved and all drawn out over a long period of time. Successful suicide is usually a quick compulsive act- like firing a gun or hanging & not waiting patiently for weeks for delivery or hours of construction of a duct tape gas chamber.

From my own experience: I came here to find how to successfully hang myself and then was like "hmmmm maybe I should order N + anti nausea meds and wait a month or so."

Maybe delaying us, getting us busily involved in construction & setup is their intent. Or maybe I'm just fucking paranoid.

 

[throwaway777]

i feel the same ...

 

[Battered_Seoul]

I see your point. The more complex methods do function as a kind of shield and invite perpetual deferment. I am thinking it may be worth it to have a rope at hand with the knots well-practiced. It may well ultimately come down to an impulsive decision.

 

[Lra888]

Exactly. Deferment.

All of the most popular & successful methods are simple and can be put into action nearly instantly. Being suicidal at the point of action is a feeling of intensity like rage, claustrophobia, terror, panic, fight or flight state which does not allow for engineering some month long chain of events where everything has to go perfectly as required by some of these methods. I'm sure some suicidal people can plan so calmly for the future but I think it would be rare.

 

[worldexploder]

Pro-lifers defiantly passed laws to keep us from having a peaceful death. Hence why N is so hard to obtain. These fuckers are brutal.

 

[Lra888]

Pro-lifers defiantly passed laws to keep us from having a peaceful death. Hence why N is so hard to obtain. These fuckers are brutal.

For better or worse we will always have access to guns in America.

 

[worldexploder]

For better or worse we will always have access to guns in America.

True. But for some of us it's hard to get.

 

[Donna]

Paranoid thought: Maybe some of the more elaborate suicide methods shared here are actually designed by pro-lifers to be so absurdly difficult for a depressed person to complete that it's intended to keep us alive.

I'm not saying they don't work if followed—I mean realistically in my depressed suicidal state i cannot conceive of having the energy or motivation to acquire these chemicals, gas tanks, set up bitcoin, travel to secluded locations, build air-tight tent gas chambers, wait weeks for n/na to arrive, purchase and administer a series of anti-nausea meds. These plans are all very involved and all drawn out over a long period of time. Successful suicide is usually a quick compulsive act- like firing a gun or hanging & not waiting patiently for weeks for delivery or hours of construction of a duct tape gas chamber.

From my own experience: I came here to find how to successfully hang myself and then was like "hmmmm maybe I should order N + anti nausea meds and wait a month or so."

Maybe delaying us, getting us busily involved in construction & setup is their intent. Or maybe I'm just fucking paranoid.

Be

Paranoid thought: Maybe some of the more elaborate suicide methods shared here are actually designed by pro-lifers to be so absurdly difficult for a depressed person to complete that it's intended to keep us alive.

I'm not saying they don't work if followed—I mean realistically in my depressed suicidal state i cannot conceive of having the energy or motivation to acquire these chemicals, gas tanks, set up bitcoin, travel to secluded locations, build air-tight tent gas chambers, wait weeks for n/na to arrive, purchase and administer a series of anti-nausea meds. These plans are all very involved and all drawn out over a long period of time. Successful suicide is usually a quick compulsive act- like firing a gun or hanging & not waiting patiently for weeks for delivery or hours of construction of a duct tape gas chamber.

From my own experience: I came here to find how to successfully hang myself and then was like "hmmmm maybe I should order N + anti nausea meds and wait a month or so."

Maybe delaying us, getting us busily involved in construction & setup is their intent. Or maybe I'm just fucking paranoid.

Believe me your not the only paranoid one ..I'm highly paranoid .

 

[Sayo]

I have had this thought too, since most easy methods have been made inaccessible. But you said it yourself that you were thinking of hanging yourself and then thought N sounded better... Information on hanging isn't exactly hidden on this site... In practice, a lot of the plans floated on this site are absurd and deserve discouragement, and a lot of people are avoiding the methods that work because they feel unable to live and unable to die.

Failed suicides are also typically impulsive too. Impulsive suicides require you to have access to the means, so I think you are being paranoid honestly. I do think misinformation as a form of curbing impulses is done on sites like Reddit and Quora, and I think lostallhope etc are specifically framed that way, but I have been around long enough to see where most of the method information comes from... it's a combination of the books on end of life planning (Nitschke, Admiraal, etc. - people concerned with peace, reliability, etc., quite rightfully given their audiences) and refinement from mostly suicidal people online who themselves necessarily are delaying (because they are planning and researching to ensure it works, because they have things they want to do beforehand, because they are undecided, it varies).

A lot of people on this site also specifically seem to have either problems with violent methods (understandable, they're messy and hard to pull off) or access problems. Since most people value other considerations (as seen by the amount of people who ask about guaranteed to fail overdoses on prescription drugs and not hanging), those methods will predominate.

There are no guns in my country for the average person. Finding a method that satisfies multiple criteria like reliability and speed and is still accessible is obviously harder than buying a gun or borrowing somebody's. I really think this is paranoia ultimately, I can't move out of bed right now either because of my depression. When walking is too hard, even simple suicide is going to seem like an absurd challenge. At the point where you think taking anti emetics you can buy on the clear web is too much of a hurdle, it is the depression, not a reflection of the true difficulty of the task. Sorry.

There are always guns and full suspension and even jumping and drowning (currently too difficult for me because I can't leave my house), if you value other considerations you accept the tradeoff. That is why everyone needs to think it through themselves.

Note: I personally advocate painless methods because the majority of people on here show that they value painlessness and many of the failures on here are brought about by inability to tolerate pain.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

If only waiting for N was the only problems, customs seized it for me and i'm sure they will do it again, i'm sure those pigs throw away every bottle not delivered to a company and don't even bother examining them. I'll gladly wait for successful delivery of N. I'm really envious of people who live in countries without North Korea paranoia level customs.

 

[scales]

Pro-lifers defiantly passed laws to keep us from having a peaceful death. Hence why N is so hard to obtain. These fuckers are brutal.

I think it's more complicated than that. If a method of death were very easily obtainable such as the ideal suicide pill, then those people who wish to die would use it but so would people who want to hurt or kill others. I could see it being used for the wrong reasons so the restrictions make sense.

However, having physicians give these to those who wish for suicide should be allowed imo as long as it's done within a hospital so it can't be used to hurt others.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

I think it's more complicated than that. If a method of death were very easily obtainable such as the ideal suicide pill, then those people who wish to die would use it but so would people who want to hurt or kill others. I could see it being used for the wrong reasons so the restrictions make sense.

However, having physicians give these to those who wish for suicide should be allowed imo as long as it's done within a hospital so it can't be used to hurt others.

Sorry but that's bullshit, making someone drink 2 bottles of N is not a very effective method to kill compared to guns, yet N is illegal in every country. Guns aren't.

Also if you can just kill someone by making him drink whole bottles, you can do that with bleach, why would you care if it's painful if you are a psychopath.

 

[Sayo]

I don't believe poisoning people with N was a concern. It was restricted in most countries because of its toxicity in overdose (and the availability of benzodiazepines etc. as sedatives, which are far less lethal).

In Australia, a country where guns are regulated, the prevailing weapons are knives, bare hands, and... guns.

@Suicideisnirvana is right. If you look at murder cases involving poisons, you see a very different list. The considerations of the murderer are entirely different to the considerations of the suicidal. There was a notorious serial killer who used barbiturates and morphine, but he was a doctor and overdosing his patients in the heyday of both.

And I am sorry about your confiscated N. I am terrified of the same. :/

 

[bigj75]

I think that's why most suicides are done while intoxicated. When you are drunk you

• You lose some of your inhibitions
• Anxiety is suppress

You are far more likely to actually go through with killing yourself than when you are sober.

 

[scales]

Sorry but that's bullshit, making someone drink 2 bottles of N is not a very effective method to kill compared to guns, yet N is illegal in every country. Guns aren't.

Also if you can just kill someone by making him drink whole bottles, you can do that with bleach, why would you care if it's painful if you are a psychopath.

Two bottles of N are required to kill you only because you're thinking of vet. N that is not meant to kill but to sedate animals for surgery. There is another form of N available where you need to drink significantly less that is specifically for vet. euthanasia.

In addition, N was previously available as a sleeping pill specifically. My post specifically talked about the ideal suicide pill that could kill you instantly and talked about as the sought after end of life "peaceful pill", not a real pill that exists. If such a thing existed, it could easily be used for the wrong reasons.

Obviously something never meant to kill you like the N used for vet. surgery would have to be taken in excess and would be more difficult.

 

[scales]

I don't believe poisoning people with N was a concern. It was restricted in most countries because of its toxicity in overdose (and the availability of benzodiazepines etc. as sedatives, which are far less lethal).

In Australia, a country where guns are regulated, the prevailing weapons are knives, bare hands, and... guns.

@Suicideisnirvana is right. If you look at murder cases involving poisons, you see a very different list. The considerations of the murderer are entirely different to the considerations of the suicidal. There was a notorious serial killer who used barbiturates and morphine, but he was a doctor and overdosing his patients in the heyday of both.

And I am sorry about your confiscated N. I am terrified of the same. :/

I agree with you on the facts such as why N was taken off market, however I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. I was talking about an ideal suicide pill meant to kill.

If there were no regulations on end of life drugs, then there would be no reason to come up with elaborate methods to kill, we could buy a cynaide or highly concentrated N type pill meant to kill not meant for other purposes. If something like that existed, people might use it incorrectly.

N was taken off the market because it was meant for sleeping not widely thought of as a way to kill someone.

 

[Sayo]

I agree with you on the facts such as why N was taken off market, however I think you misunderstood what I was talking about. I was talking about an ideal suicide pill meant to kill.

If there were no regulations on end of life drugs, then there would be no reason to come up with elaborate methods to kill, we could buy a cynaide or highly concentrated N type pill meant to kill not meant for other purposes. If something like that existed, people might use it incorrectly.

N was taken off the market because it was meant for sleeping not widely thought of as a way to kill someone.

Oh, yes, I misunderstood. Apologies. I have to agree with you then, that anything 'non-elaborate' that met the requirements of most suicidal people would generally be considered highly dangerous.

 

[Schopenhauer]

To the OP: you're just being paranoid. Painless suicide is hard. Hanging is the simplest method I'm aware of, and it's discussed regularly here. It isn't actively discouraged or anything.

Most of the time, it's we who find reasons to procrastinate.

 

[Arak]

For me, the greatest worry is surviving with major CNs or other organ damage.

But some methods are just really hard for people in very poor health. I Ican think of a couple of methods I could have done 'easily' if I had wanted to 5 years ago. Just travel to Austria or Switzerland, travel around, find a steep slope, climb mountain and maybe take a sedative and opiate to get some guts and reduce pain ...

 

[Goldie]

I can understand why you feel that way but I feel you are little bit paranoid.

* Partial suspension done properly is /hard/ imo, not easy
* N is /hard/ of course as it is difficult to obtain.

So I can understand why you feel that way.

 

[Limbo]

Methods like nitrogen are very easy if you put your mind to it. If you dont want to put the effort in then you wont get what you want.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

Two bottles of N are required to kill you only because you're thinking of vet. N that is not meant to kill but to sedate animals for surgery. There is another form of N available where you need to drink significantly less that is specifically for vet. euthanasia.

In addition, N was previously available as a sleeping pill specifically. My post specifically talked about the ideal suicide pill that could kill you instantly and talked about as the sought after end of life "peaceful pill", not a real pill that exists. If such a thing existed, it could easily be used for the wrong reasons.

Obviously something never meant to kill you like the N used for vet. surgery would have to be taken in excess and would be more difficult.

So you are confirming exactly my point : it's possible to legalize some methods that are suitable for suicide but not for murder. Therefore the total prohibition of all means of suicide (including veterinary N) means just that the authoritarian shitty society wants to prevent people from quitting their shit system.

That was exactly my point.

 

[scales]

So you are confirming exactly my point : it's possible to legalize some methods that are suitable for suicide but not for murder. Therefore the total prohibition of all means of suicide (including veterinary N) means just that the authoritarian shitty society wants to prevent people from quitting their shit system.

That was exactly my point.

No... that's not the point at all. If something is suitable for suicide it can be used for murder just as easily, that was my point.

 

[Suicideisnirvana]

No... that's not the point at all. If something is suitable for suicide it can be used for murder just as easily, that was my point.

So two bottles of Nembutal can be used easily for murder, yes or no ? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And if you answer yes, what about two bottles of bleach ?

I didn't say that you were agreeing with my point btw, but that you confirmed it indirectly by how you talked about veterinary N.

Your point makes no sense because we aren't in a situation where only the ideal perfect pill is made illegal, we are in a situation where every suicide pill/drink/drug is made illegal.

 

[Retched]

Every method is elaborate to me now, especially after I failed earlier this year and lost my car my dignity and my entire personality. I want N but I have no idea about bitcoin and the reliability of suppliers. I could try to get a gun but not sure I'll pass the background with a failed attempt tho I wasn't sectioned- they had me sign the papers to self admit...then actually learn how to shoot... sigh...

 

[NewDelhiGuy]

If you can find a suicide partner.. he/she can arrange for things to ctb.
I have suffered from clinical depression since childhood. Depression is aversion to activity. That affects every aspect of life even stops you from ctb.

 

[scales]

So two bottles of Nembutal can be used easily for murder, yes or no ? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

And if you answer yes, what about two bottles of bleach ?

I didn't say that you were agreeing with my point btw, but that you confirmed it indirectly by how you talked about veterinary N.

Your point makes no sense because we aren't in a situation where only the ideal perfect pill is made illegal, we are in a situation where every suicide pill/drink/drug is made illegal.

Alright, I'm sorry my post was confusing, sometimes I am bad at explaining myself.

My first point was in response to someone else saying suicide methods are outlawed.

If suicide methods were not outlawed, in other words, were legal, then we would have access to the perfect pill, we would not need to use something like 2 bottles of Nembutal which were never meant for human consumption by the way. This would be true only if suicide methods were legal.

I hope that part makes sense, a peaceful suicide pill is easy and possible with the technology we have, we just don't allow it because it is illegal, so people find unusual methods to kill themselves.

Now my second point. If a suicide pill existed because suicide wasn't illegal, then that pill would kill very easily, painlessly and thus be usable for murder. It would be very controversial and easy.


Does that make sense?

 

[Arak]

@Sayo ,

' I do think misinformation as a form of curbing impulses is done on sites like Reddit and Quora, and I think lostallhope etc are specifically framed that way, but I have been around long enough to see where most of the method information comes from... it's a combination of the books on end of life planning (Nitschke, Admiraal, etc' I was under the impression that lostallhope was reasonably reliable. Am I wrong ? If so, would you have anything specific to add ? I read that website way before I discovered this forum.

About one method, and a variety of methods '
Dextropropoxyphene is a sodium channel blocker, which means that it closes the fast ion channels of the neurons which control the conductivity of the cardiac system (i.e. the neuronal process which operates the cardiac muscle's contractions, which in turn pump blood into the body and back from it).

Scientifically speaking, neurons signal to one another by a process, in which ion channels in the cell's membrane are opened (following an electrical signal propagated from adjacent neurons), and in turn, positive sodium ions are flowing into the neuron cell, thereby altering the trans-membrane potential (meaning that the internal cytoplasm becomes more positively charged than the external cytoplasm), and then the neuron may start to "fire" electrical signals to other neurons, propagating action potentials to adjacent neurons in the cardiac system.

When the sodium channels are being "blocked", be it totally or partially, it delays and hinders the process described above, leading to uncoordinated neuronal signals, and hence, uncoordinated ventricles' contraction of the cardiac system (tachycardia and sometimes 'torsade de points'). Those arrhythmias, if maintained for too long, would make the heart incapable of contracting the cardiac muscle (since the ventricles are not coordinated), leading to heart failure and ultimately death. ' (https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Suicide/Toxification/Darvon_cocktail)

Other drugs with similar mechanisms. I was under the impression that you had some specific knowledge, related to study/work.
My gut feeling is that merely disrupting the functioning of the heart is not that reliable. If it stops beating, yes.

I did find that list of Admiraal, Chabot etc. Would you think they have anything significant to add for our purposes ? We don't have access to most physician's methods. I know that Chabot is less than enthousiastic about either sodium azide or sodium nitrite. 'not a peaceful death'

 

[sadak_the_wanderer]

I think this is backwards. Nobody sat down and "designed" these elaborate methods. Rather, suicide used to be easy. Toddle down to the corner store for laudanum; barbiturates were widely prescribed through the eighties. English ovens used coal gas, full of carbon monoxide, until the 1970s -- that's how Sylvia Plath went out. Circuits in the home lacked ground fault interrupt circuits, and before that, grounds entirely. Fewer railings around bridges. Mount Mihara, in Japan, had nearly a thousand people jump in during 1933 alone before a fence was put up.

It's not that that elaborate methods were being invented by people; instead, they've taken away all of the simple and handy ones and it has largely been done for safety's sake, not to inconvenience us.

 

[Threads]

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